Why is it ?

[TreeGuy]

That we argue over caliber so often? Well, maybe not argue, but discuss with emotion. I seem to see the same .223 post ever deer season ! So, I assume a few things ... Is it the fact that someone only has access to that smaller rifle? Do they want to see how many pages of funny can come from it ? Can they get free ammo ? Are they looking to shoot bear and woodchucks with the same gun ?

I guess I don't see why someone wants to know if they can " get away" with a small caliber rifle for deer, or a .22 for coyote... Let's face it,you can buy a Remington 700 in .243 or in 30-06 and not pay a substantial amount more ! Or, you can get the cheapest of cheap .308 bolt action and find a .22 that costs 2x that. As far as ammo, if you keep on topic of hunting loads, there again is no difference from hornady .308 down to the .223 or even 12ga sabots.

Yes, there is shot placement. Obviously. I believe you could take a deer with a .177 pellet gun if you had a heart shot. As I mentioned in a post earlier, Indians killed bison with sticks and stones ! But it can't be a question of shot placement, because you could wound a deer with a RPG and still not recover it.

I hunt deer with a 6mm rem. And for one reason only, it was my grandfathers rifle. I have never lost a deer, ever. Haven't ever had to track over 50 yrds.. But if I went to the gun shop for a deer rifle, I would not get a 6mm. It to me is on that cusp of " too small".

Here me out guys and gals and lets see if we can all agree on something. Whether WE believe it's too small or too big, it CAN kill... And it can NOT kill. Right ?

Is it logical, or ethical to try and hunt big or small game with the smallest possible caliber, if we are 100% confident it will kill ?

If you are shopping for a new gun, do you want to make an investment in something that will hands down get the job done?

Or do you want to punch paper every weekend so your kill shot game is on point , and not realize there is always room for error and jump up to something larger that can " help "?

Don't really know where this rant is coming from I guess... I just don't get the full story ( I think ) when it comes to caliber talk.

[ants]

Whats the best caliber for deer??  There has to be only one right answer.. What is it?? 

[TreeGuy]

Whats the best caliber for deer?? There has to be only one right answer.. What is it??

Whitetail, blacktail,sitka,mule or rain....?

[ants]

Whitetail, blacktail,sitka,mule or rain....?

The best round, for all of those of course, is the 270 Winchester. The best TreeGuy..The best!!

[BizCT]

The best round, for all of those of course, is the 270 Winchester. The best TreeGuy..The best!!

Wrong wby mag. 270 or 7MM

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[TreeGuy]

There's lots of RIGHT ones, and I believe there's lots of wrong ones. I think some may say .xxx is right, simply because they have one, and have killed with it. My questioning is in the whole too big/ small talk. Why even go there is what I wonder.

If your framing a house you don't bring a ball peen hammer. Will it work though ?

When you go drag racing, you don't take the minivan. Could you win though ?

When you go for a jog, you don't wear winter boots. Can you still jog?

But, if you only have a ball peen, some winter boots and a mini van, can you still be successful ?

[TreeGuy]

The best round, for all of those of course, is the 270 Winchester. The best TreeGuy..The best!!

Lol, and heeeeeere we go

Whitetail, blacktail,sitka,mule or rain....?

[ants]

Its the 30-06 and don't deny it!!!

[t_barb]

25.06, best round for whitetail in my opinion..

[ncountry]

It's my 300 win mag.. Hamburger and steaks all in one shot!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

It's my 300 win mag.. Hamburger and steaks all in one shot!

Nah my Smokin 300Wby Mag is the best. Guts them and if you are facing the right direction can blow it 10-20 yards closer to your truck!

[DirtTime]

I think the 223 questions stem from more people wanting to use an AR for deer.

[Pygmy]

Discussions regarding the use of the .223 also take place in PA, where no semi auto firearms are legal for big game hunting.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Pygmy

[turkeyfeathers]

Discussions regarding the use of the .223 also take place in PA, where no semi auto firearms are legal for big game hunting.

does that include shotguns for deer ? Crazy !

[Pygmy]

turkeyfeathers, on 31 Jan 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:turkeyfeathers, on 31 Jan 2016 - 10:31 PM, said:

does that include shotguns for deer ? Crazy !

Yes it does, at least as far as single projectile shotgun ammo is concerned.  There are some buckshot only zones in PA and I am not sure bout the legalities of semi shotguns there...All firearms firing single projectile ammo for ANY game must be manually operated.

 

While auto shotguns  are legal with small shot  NO semi auto rifles or pistols are legal..That means you cannot even shoot squirrels or woodchucks with your Ruger 10-22 or shoot a coon out of a tree with your Colt Woodsman.

 

Hehehehe..Just goes to show that NY  does not have a monopoly on stupid game laws.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Pygmy

[thphtm]

I have to agree with ants on the 30 06 , you can buy factory ammo from 1O0 grain to 220 grain .

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[turkeyfeathers]

Yes it does, at least as far as single projectile shotgun ammo is concerned. There are some buckshot only zones in PA and I am not sure bout the legalities of semi shotguns there...All firearms firing single projectile ammo for ANY game must be manually operated.

While auto shotguns are legal with small shot NO semi auto rifles or pistols are legal..That means you cannot even shoot squirrels or woodchucks with your Ruger 10-22 or shoot a coon out of a tree with your Colt Woodsman.

Hehehehe..Just goes to show that NY does not have a monopoly on stupid game laws.

. Indeed , crazier than I thought.

[Jaeger]

That we argue over caliber so often? Well, maybe not argue, but discuss with emotion. I seem to see the same .223 post ever deer season ! So, I assume a few things ... Is it the fact that someone only has access to that smaller rifle? Do they want to see how many pages of funny can come from it ? Can they get free ammo ? Are they looking to shoot bear and woodchucks with the same gun ?

I guess I don't see why someone wants to know if they can " get away" with a small caliber rifle for deer, or a .22 for coyote... Let's face it,you can buy a Remington 700 in .243 or in 30-06 and not pay a substantial amount more ! Or, you can get the cheapest of cheap .308 bolt action and find a .22 that costs 2x that. As far as ammo, if you keep on topic of hunting loads, there again is no difference from hornady .308 down to the .223 or even 12ga sabots.

Yes, there is shot placement. Obviously. I believe you could take a deer with a .177 pellet gun if you had a heart shot. As I mentioned in a post earlier, Indians killed bison with sticks and stones ! But it can't be a question of shot placement, because you could wound a deer with a RPG and still not recover it.

I hunt deer with a 6mm rem. And for one reason only, it was my grandfathers rifle. I have never lost a deer, ever. Haven't ever had to track over 50 yrds.. But if I went to the gun shop for a deer rifle, I would not get a 6mm. It to me is on that cusp of " too small".

Here me out guys and gals and lets see if we can all agree on something. Whether WE believe it's too small or too big, it CAN kill... And it can NOT kill. Right ?

Is it logical, or ethical to try and hunt big or small game with the smallest possible caliber, if we are 100% confident it will kill ?

If you are shopping for a new gun, do you want to make an investment in something that will hands down get the job done?

Or do you want to punch paper every weekend so your kill shot game is on point , and not realize there is always room for error and jump up to something larger that can " help "?

Don't really know where this rant is coming from I guess... I just don't get the full story ( I think ) when it comes to caliber talk.

I understand where you're coming from.  Why do we have these discussions every year?  We all know its a marginal but legal caliber for our deer here in NY.

 

Well first, we always have a lot of newbies and people who are new to guns so it helps to point out the practical and ethical deficiencies in that range of calibers.

 

Second, many of us have guns in our cabinets and wonder "would that work"?  I got a ruger ranch rifle in .223 to tote around the farm and the guy who sold it to me kept telling me over and over, "now don't use it on deer" (I never even considered that, just got it for the coyotes that pop up).

 

On occasions, I look at my extremely accurate .204 ruger and say what if, then the thought passes as soon as it occurs.

 

Third, while not really this thread, we also discuss what is too much gun, super fast mags., huge rifle bores vs. std. shotgun bores/gauges, etc.  You don't need "that much gun" to kill our deer, so why use it?  (just the statement not my opinion).  We have these discussions every year as well.

 

Fourth, and then I'll shut up, we just like talking guns, heatedly or otherwise.

 

For me, I'm a Ruark kind of guy, use enough gun. 

 

Thanks, for letting me add my rant to the list.

 

P.s., for me, next year it'll be my new 7x57 and .475 Turnbull.  Perfect and way, way too much gun!!!!!!

Edited February 1, 2016 by Jaeger

[growalot]

I love this"rant"...lol for it reminds me of when I got into turkey hunting and would tell "old Time" turkey hunters my weapon of choice was a 20 Ga....Now some of those responses were actual rants!...lol

[Dinsdale]

 

P.s., for me, next year it'll be my new 7x57 and .475 Turnbull.  Perfect and way, way too much gun!!!!!!

 

 

So I take it Turnbull got the engraving right this time?

[thphtm]

 

Taken from this http://www.chuckhawks.com/myth_busting_calibers.htm, IT'S A LONG READ.

[Pygmy]

It's just fun for those of us who are interested in rifles and ballistics to enter into discussions like this.

 

I always get involved, even though I know that there dozens of rifle/chambering  combos out there that are equally effective on deer and similar sized game.

[grampy]

It's just fun for those of us who are interested in rifles and ballistics to enter into discussions like this.

I always get involved, even though I know that there dozens of rifle/chambering combos out there that are equally effective on deer and similar sized game.

Like the 7mm/08. Hands down the perfect whitetail killer!...........jm2cents2.......

[shawnhu]

That we argue over caliber so often? Well, maybe not argue, but discuss with emotion. I seem to see the same .223 post ever deer season ! So, I assume a few things ... Is it the fact that someone only has access to that smaller rifle? Do they want to see how many pages of funny can come from it ? Can they get free ammo ? Are they looking to shoot bear and woodchucks with the same gun ?

I guess I don't see why someone wants to know if they can " get away" with a small caliber rifle for deer, or a .22 for coyote... Let's face it,you can buy a Remington 700 in .243 or in 30-06 and not pay a substantial amount more ! Or, you can get the cheapest of cheap .308 bolt action and find a .22 that costs 2x that. As far as ammo, if you keep on topic of hunting loads, there again is no difference from hornady .308 down to the .223 or even 12ga sabots.

Yes, there is shot placement. Obviously. I believe you could take a deer with a .177 pellet gun if you had a heart shot. As I mentioned in a post earlier, Indians killed bison with sticks and stones ! But it can't be a question of shot placement, because you could wound a deer with a RPG and still not recover it.

I hunt deer with a 6mm rem. And for one reason only, it was my grandfathers rifle. I have never lost a deer, ever. Haven't ever had to track over 50 yrds.. But if I went to the gun shop for a deer rifle, I would not get a 6mm. It to me is on that cusp of " too small".

Here me out guys and gals and lets see if we can all agree on something. Whether WE believe it's too small or too big, it CAN kill... And it can NOT kill. Right ?

Is it logical, or ethical to try and hunt big or small game with the smallest possible caliber, if we are 100% confident it will kill ?

If you are shopping for a new gun, do you want to make an investment in something that will hands down get the job done?

Or do you want to punch paper every weekend so your kill shot game is on point , and not realize there is always room for error and jump up to something larger that can " help "?

Don't really know where this rant is coming from I guess... I just don't get the full story ( I think ) when it comes to caliber talk.

If it's legal, and the shooter is proficient with it, I don't see why not.

The reason why I think these discussion come up often is because of the difference in skill level we have as hunters in our abilities to shoot and analyze terminal ballistics. There are those that want to do more, with less, then there's also those that want to do less, with more.

I think the discussions get heated when one hunter tries to tell another what they can, or can't use based on their own opinion. You'll generally hear people trash talk the smaller calibers, but not the other way around.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[wolc123]

When it comes to deer, there is very good reason that the 30/06 comes out on top of most polls. That is due to it's wide range of ammo availability. At remote outposts from South Africa to Alaska, there is nothing you can find easier. There is a big gap between the "also-rans", with the .270 and .308 tied for second in my book at least.

I would never consider using below a .24 caliber for deer, but I am guilty of killing more coyotes with a .22 rimfire than any other round. The main reason for that is most were very late at night, from my bedroom window. I would rather risk wounding a coyote than waking up my kids sleeping down the hall. My .22/250, which I use during daylight hours, literally shakes the house to the foundation, waking not only my kids, but also neighbors 1/2 mile down the road. Coyotes are thin skinned and drop easy with a high velocity .22 rimfire (I like Remington yellow-jackets) behind the shoulder.