Gas Drilling on State Forest land?????

[sits in trees]

they will always grope for MONEY!!  Land goup to discuss new plan by state on forest drilling

        http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/persbilde?Avis=TH&ID=244&maxH=47[/img]   By Adam Bosch  Published: 2:00 AM - 01/18/11  NEW WINDSOR — A land coalition will meet this week to discuss New York's new forest plan, which leaves the door open to natural-gas drilling on state forest lands.

The Stewart Park and Reserve Coalition will discuss the plan Wednesday at 7:30 p.m. at Bethlehem Presbyterian Church on Route 94 in New Windsor.

Stewart State Forest is not in the possible drilling area, but SPARC wants to join other conservation groups opposed to forest drilling.

[email protected]

[NYDeer]

This is no surprise to me.. DEC is the agency in charge of licensing, inspection & enforcement for gas drilling, and sees the cash that's being generated, all while its own budget is being sucked away.. 

[Doewhacker]

This is something you guys from the city need to worry about considering your water comes from upstate state forest areas.

[wztirem]

So does your water.

[Doewhacker]

So does your water.

Nope I'm on a well in the country, I was reffering to the Gilboa Dam and the waters associated with it.

I get to worry about shallow wells and fertilizer run off...weee!

[HectorBuckBuster]

Well, I know alot of farmers that could use alittle extra money to help keep their land from drilling. I have seen it in just a few years how much land has vanished that I used to be able to hunt. If you drive in Northern Seneca County, you see lots of gas wells that have been there for almost 40 years. I can't every remember any problems with those wells.  I have a friend that if he does not use his water for a few days that he can light his faucet on fire. His well is over 200 foot deep, and there is not a gas well with in 10 miles of his house. I just wonder how many people every checked there well over the years, probably not too man, and now they are and are blaming drilling on it.

[TH41]

If the gas is there, it will be extracted one way or another. No matter where it is.And if drinking water is or was contaminated do you really think anyone gives a turd. The only people that will, are the people directly affected. And if they suck all the water sources dry to drill they will be allowed to do so. And unless it is determined or stated that a persons property runs the thickness of earths crust. They will come in from the sides,they already do. Horizontal drilling,down and over. it's another one of those things ,thats gonna happen. Protests only bring attention to what is already goin on. Or has been going on.

[First-light]

This is something you guys from the city need to worry about considering your water comes from upstate state forest areas.

We all have to worry about all the drinking water. What alot of you guys don't talk about is the changing landscape that comes with oil-gas drilling. Rents will skyrocket locals will be displaced who rent,  towns will be crowded, water extracted from your streams and lakes, roads widened, noise level 24/7 will increase, transient workers in your towns. And yes DEC has to monitor all of this and the local water supply. It does come down to the all mighty dollar and I can't blame anyone who can get a deal to set them up for life. As far as I'm concerned you better weigh the pros and cons carefully. What better way to get NYS revenue then to let Horizontal fracking  take place in NY. Yes NYS land will be the first to be drilled upon. Look for gas to be over 100 bucks per barrel this summer.

The price of Natural gas will climb and there you have the equation. There is nothing we can do to keep oil prices down with the emerging economies in this world. They will drive the price of oil. Alternative energy is the only way, this includes nat gas, solar, wind, clean coal and nuclear.

[HectorBuckBuster]

The government keeps pushing this ethonal crap and all that does it drive up the food prices. Why not come out with a program to convert cars to Natural Gas in areas that have large amounts and produce it. Look at the tax laws and see the breaks the big oil companies get for using ethanol. The company that blends ethanol gets a 45 cents per gallon tax credit.This falls under something called the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit. Here is the second paragraph from the story on this.

The energy and agricultural industries, for example, would continue to  receive a generous ethanol tax credit at a cost to taxpayers of about $6  billion in 2011. The 45-cents-per-gallon credit goes to fuel blenders -  including large oil and gas companies such as Shell - who count it  against income tax owed to the United States. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121504071.html

Even more info on this

http://www.bioenergywiki.net/Volumetric_Ethanol_Excise_Tax_Credit

[raymerlo]

we will just keep sending our hard earned dollars to the middle east,not to worry propane for home heating around putnam,westchester dutchess is over 4.25 a gallon,did any one ask where the funding comes from to complain about the drilling,look what you paying for home oil,diesel fuel,gasoline,a gallon of milk,a loaf of bread,wake up brothers we have all that we need here in the good old USA,stop all the doom and gloom and drill baby drill

[Ford]

Unfortunetly it is much more complicated than that..

Most of our oil comes from what we drill, Canada, and Mexico..

As long as oil is a commodity that is traded, it is all supply and demand...We would have to drill enough oil to impact the global supply. That would most likely be negligible.

[Doc]

All of this emphasis on natural gas drilling as well as other forms of nice pretty "greener" types of energy has brought a thought to mind that I haven't heard anyone ever mention. When the day finally comes that most forms of transportation run on something other than petro products, will the petro industry react by closing down significant oil well numbers in favor of other popular greener fuels? What do you think will happen to the costs of every plastic part that is in just about every product we buy? Plastic is a petroleum product. There are other products such as asphalt that may escalate in cost because of near elimination of petro production? You can't produce these kinds of products from natural gas or wind power or solar energy or hydrogen or any of the other favorite fuels of the future. So I just wonder if these things will be made from super high cost of shrunken volumes of petro production? I'm not saying that it will become a problem, but I am just wondering how all that sort of thing may play out. I was just thinking about that aspect this morning when I was looking around at all the plastic products that we rely on and was just wondering how we would be impacted if the raw material for that vital product was suddenly increased by a factor of 10 or 20 or whatever.

[G-Man]

Doc, when gas was almost 4.00 dollars a gallon the price asphalt  was so high it was almost cheaper to do concrete..i know i built a house during that time..

[Doc]

Doc, when gas was almost 4.00 dollars a gallon the price asphalt  was so high it was almost cheaper to do concrete..i know i built a house during that time..

So when we are finally successful at replacing petro-fuels, (perhaps with natural gas or hydrogen, or some nifty wind-driven electrical power) some of the undiscussed side-reactions may get a bit challenging to our nation's economy. It sounds like there may not actually be any such thing as a free lunch .... Or at least it's not completely free ..... lol.

[nyantler]

Like everything else.. someone will come in and produce oil just for plastics and ashphalt... when something dies..somewhere else something is born..

[Dave]

All of this emphasis on natural gas drilling as well as other forms of nice pretty "greener" types of energy has brought a thought to mind that I haven't heard anyone ever mention. When the day finally comes that most forms of transportation run on something other than petro products, will the petro industry react by closing down significant oil well numbers in favor of other popular greener fuels? What do you think will happen to the costs of every plastic part that is in just about every product we buy? Plastic is a petroleum product. There are other products such as asphalt that may escalate in cost because of near elimination of petro production? You can't produce these kinds of products from natural gas or wind power or solar energy or hydrogen or any of the other favorite fuels of the future. So I just wonder if these things will be made from super high cost of shrunken volumes of petro production? I'm not saying that it will become a problem, but I am just wondering how all that sort of thing may play out. I was just thinking about that aspect this morning when I was looking around at all the plastic products that we rely on and was just wondering how we would be impacted if the raw material for that vital product was suddenly increased by a factor of 10 or 20 or whatever.

Doc do you see this happening in your lifetime or in the near future? I don't, since the gas crunch in the early 70's we have done nothing. The cars don't get better mileage, still dependent on foreign oil And that lesson was learned over 40 years ago. Remember alternate days to buy gas? Their solution to the gas shortage was to just raise the price and no more shortage. We have so much plastic in our enviornment  all we need to do is recycle. Remember the commercial that showed the plastic bottles used in the US each year could circle the earth 25 times . That could make alot of plastic parts, not to mention all the other plastic we have accumulated through the years.  Just my opinion.

Dave

[HectorBuckBuster]

Most plastic is recycled now. Have you seen how the grind up a whole car in a couple minutes into little pieces, which then are sorted out by melting them down as each thing melts at a different temperature.

[Dave]

Guy's just look across the river to Pa. and see what's happening there especially in Dimock Township in Bradfrod County. They have sued and won millions of dollars from the gas companies for contamination their wells. If it happens in Pa it sure as hell will happen here.

Dave

[wztirem]

Guy's just look across the river to Pa. and see what's happening there especially in Dimock Township in Bradfrod County. They have sued and won millions of dollars from the gas companies for contamination their wells. If it happens in Pa it sure as hell will happen here.

Dave

No doubt about it.

[Doc]

Doc do you see this happening in your lifetime or in the near future? I don't, since the gas crunch in the early 70's we have done nothing. The cars don't get better mileage, still dependent on foreign oil And that lesson was learned over 40 years ago. Remember alternate days to buy gas? Their solution to the gas shortage was to just raise the price and no more shortage. We have so much plastic in our enviornment  all we need to do is recycle. Remember the commercial that showed the plastic bottles used in the US each year could circle the earth 25 times . That could make alot of plastic parts, not to mention all the other plastic we have accumulated through the years.  Just my opinion.

Dave

I really don't have a crystal ball, and I don't know how committed anyone really is to alternate fuels. Past performance doesn't really make us think that gasoline will go out of style for transportation any time soon. I think a lot of the reason that they have not moved faster on this is because every company that gets involved in alternate energy vehicles seems to want to make back all their R&D investment in the first year, and nobody can take them seriously when the cost to the consumer get published. The other neat thing is that every family across the nation has sunk a fair amount of money into their 2nd largest asset, and it only runs on gas. Anybody up for dragging their new shiny $25000 car to the dump so they can mortgage their house to buy a nice new electric car or a hydrogen powered one? So the progress on the alternate fuel has been slow. However, like I said, I don't have a crystal ball, so I am not going to say that someday someone will stumble on to the right technology and the right marketing mindset (such as Henry Ford had) and prices their technological marvels within reach of the average man.

One thing I have learned is that I should never say "never". Who would have believed that the hills around Naples would be covered with those giant 200' plus white worley-gigs. When the government wants to throw our tax dollars at something, they can make even unprofitable technology something that a few well connected people can make gobs of money off of. So, if some day, perhaps in the near future, someone were to announce the production of a viable mode of transportation that didn't involve petro-fuel, and they were starting a world-wide distribution at a reasonable price, I guess it probably wouldn't completely shock me. If they can sell tehj public and the government on that loser technology call wind energy, I'm sure there is somebody that cab peddle some non-petro vehicle. If that should happen and someone were to also explain that the costs of plastic products were going to go through the roof, I guess that wouldn't shock me either. I know that not all recycleable plastics are suitable for all plastic products applications. I also know that the recycling process is not free. I also have to wonder if the plastics industry is truly a self-sustaining deal where all the future needs will be met by recycling. I'll bet that's not in the cards ..... kind of sounds like a perpetual motion machine ..... lol. Just for illustration purposes, I would point out that we have ways of recycling asphalt too, but that doesn't mean that even a significant portion of our new highway construction and repair comes from recycled asphalt.

So anyway, it is just a thought that rolls around in my head everytime a discussion of producing alternate energy comes up.