Oregon Militia & Other Western Militias

[Doc]

Let me drag this back to the original post. i posted a link to a video. In that video LaVoy speaks to the L.E. with a certain disdain, threatening a bloodbath goading officers to shoot him in the head. I get that they don't recognize the federal gov't, or laws they deem unconstitutional even if they have been in Supreme Court twice and have been upheld. But I am shocked, awed, and scared by the tone and confidence with which he spoke to the police and by the fact that there are elected officials who were trying to give them information on police actions during the occupation. I am disturbed by this, maybe i have a stricter definition of Patriot.

What exactly bothers you about that attitude? Why are you shocked or scared about that kind of attitude toward law enforcement.  We hear it almost every day from some individuals on this forum. We have our resident anarchists who would dearly love to topple our government. They live for revolution and they somehow call themselves patriots. You need to pay attention to this forum and understand the mentality that exists in some corners of it. Militias can do no wrong. Never mind what these people would replace it all with or how they would control any transitions. There first desire is to bring it all down and then try to sort it all out later. We have our own homespun jihadists right here and they seem to pretty much get a free pass from some. Yes you are absolutely right to be shocked and scared. Apparently you thought that all threats to our way of life came from abroad. Well, turn around very slowly and look at we have grown while nobody was watching. You've got two fronts coming at us, and unfortunately there may be a lot more allies in there pocket than most of us ever realized.

[The_Field_Ager]

Those that want to treat militia terror any differently than over seas terror to be exact.

 

You're out-to-lunch

 

Not to mention you miss the disingenuous point being perpetrated by Expresso. Oh well

[Doc]

Your right. It is time for lunch and I'm gone.

[EspressoBuzz]

I have been aware of domestic terrorist issues and no I never thought all threats were foreign. I am un-nerved by the brazen mentality. An issue I was not completely aware of was how many elected officials and sheriffs share that mentality. I like others have given Islamic Terrorists a greater weight by virtue of their numbers which is why i was taken aback by the extent that the local threat has grown. I am not surprised by the support of the militias here on HuntingNY and can only assume there are more less vocal sympathizers. I was also surprised that the numbers of deaths are nearly even, i would have bet good money on Islamic terrorist deaths being more by far.

[fasteddie]

Your right. It is time for lunch and I'm gone.

 

Great come back Doc ! 

[Grouse]

The original question was, "Which is a GREATER threat?".

 

Yes, there have been Americans who have killed like terrorists, but I don't think it easy to point out an incident since OK City.  Why?  Because they realized that wouldn't advance their agenda.  They want support from regular, everyday, ordinary citizens.  That is the only way they can gain power.

 

Now Islamic terrorists have no desire for support.  They just want us all dead.

 

Which is a greater threat today?  Who is more likely to achieve an attack on Americans using chemical weapons or a nuclear weapon?

 

The body count presented prior seems to be manipulated to me.  I don't believe all incidents have been properly recorded because many of the incidents were not properly labeled Islamic terror.  Ft Hood is one example.

 

That is far less important than the numbers that will be coming in the future.  I don't think you will see "militias" racking up the body count Islamic terrorists will from now on.

 

Failing to direct efforts of prevention at the right target, or not directing them correctly because political correctness was able to misdirect the real threat, will prove to be a huge mistake.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Grouse

[Uptown Redneck]

Doc, you know that the Feds knew an attack was imminent, right? ATF were all told not to come to work that day, just one example of the foreknowledge of the days events. Bomb units were seen in the area before the explosions. The list goes on.

There also seems to have been Saudi involvement. A lot of similarities to the recent Belgian airport attack. The authoriies there also knew an attack was going to happen but stood down.

The post above once more puts Papist's twisted right wing conspiracy views on full display. God help the youth that he teaches.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Uptown Redneck

[ants]

So many people are already focused and spot on with concerns to Islamic Extremists (http://inhomelandsecurity.com/march-terror-threat-snapshot-147-homegrown-terror-cases-since-911/). What I am saying is don't overlook these guys, they have proven to be dangerous and they are here within our borders and perfectly camouflaged as Americans.

 

I did not bring up McVeigh or anything prior to 9/11.

 

Most policy makers and politicos use 9/11 as a demarcation line in American policy toward terrorism of all sorts.

 

As for the number being questioned the pages i posted lists each event and the circumstances.

Im not getting how you didn't mention McVeigh. And so you don't think that 911 should be included in the total of people killed in the U.S. by Jihadists ??

[EspressoBuzz]

Im not getting how you didn't mention McVeigh. And so you don't think that 911 should be included in the total of people killed in the U.S. by Jihadists ??

 

In my original post I did not mention Oklahoma City or Timothy McVeigh. I was and still am speaking of the western militias. As to if we should include 9/11 I'd ask how far should we go back? If you want to go back to the founding of America I am sure (but admittedly didn't check very much) that all domestic terrorism on U.S. soil is still pretty close in number to Islamic terrorist events here.

 

However as pointed out earlier in this thread the potential for future threat growth clearly sits in the Islamic camp and will do so for the foreseeable future. Still what is happening out west is troubling to me.

[EspressoBuzz]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/16/eight-facts-about-terrorism-in-the-united-states/

 

Just in case anyone is curious.

[philoshop]

When one vision of the US conflicts with a different vision of the US, this is the result.

[The_Field_Ager]

The post above once more puts Papist's twisted right wing conspiracy views on full display. God help the youth that he teaches.

 

 

Uh Oh, some village just lost its idiot.

[ants]

In my original post I did not mention Oklahoma City or Timothy McVeigh. I was and still am speaking of the western militias. As to if we should include 9/11 I'd ask how far should we go back? If you want to go back to the founding of America I am sure (but admittedly didn't check very much) that all domestic terrorism on U.S. soil is still pretty close in number to Islamic terrorist events here.

 

However as pointed out earlier in this thread the potential for future threat growth clearly sits in the Islamic camp and will do so for the foreseeable future. Still what is happening out west is troubling to me.

You're in denial and/or a Jihadist apologist. You did mention McVeigh, not in your original post, but you did bring that scum bag up, a few posts later , but not the 911 scum bags.…… I will ask you…as far as Islamic scum killing Americans,  how far back should we go??? Is 911 waaaaay too long ago?  When is it too long to count??  I say never. But you say????? 

[EspressoBuzz]

Think what you like you will anyway, but I mentioned McVeigh in my third post after someone else brought him and Oklahoma City up.

 

Lets count all terrorism on U.S. soil from the end of the revolutionary war to today, include all terrorist groups right, left and foreign. Got a number? Good.

 

 

[Grouse]

How about we just worry about the one's who are a threat today?  Who cares about the one's that are all dead and gone?

 

Yes, some militia people are crazy and a threat, but at least they can be monitored, infiltrated and arrested with impunity.  The Muslim community is protected by every form of political correctness, making it very hard to infiltrate or monitor them.  That is a big problem for law enforcement.

 

Worry about the white supremacists if you want, and don't forget about the other races that have supremacy groups too.  But, do not use any of them to misdirect the biggest threat facing us today, unless your intention is to protect them even more.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Grouse

[Doc]

How about we just worry about the one's who are a threat today?  Who cares about the one's that are all dead and gone?

 

Yes, some militia people are crazy and a threat, but at least they can be monitored, infiltrated and arrested with impunity.  The Muslim community is protected by every form of political correctness, making it very hard to infiltrate or monitor them.  That is a big problem for law enforcement.

 

Worry about the white supremacists if you want, and don't forget about the other races that have supremacy groups too.  But, do not use any of them to misdirect the biggest threat facing us today, unless your intention is to protect them even more.

“Those who forget or ignore the past are doomed to repeat it”. And never, ever forget or downplay any of the violent offenses against this country or its citizens. To downplay them is to condone them. 

 

Since this thread was about militias, it seemed to be important to remind people of exactly what those people are all about. Yes there are sources of evil all around us that have to be taken seriously and require vigilance. But this thread was regarding concerns relating to militias. And on that subject of militias, it bears repeating that they do have a record that shows that there is reason for EspressoBuzz to be concerned about them. Just because we have worse threats of greater scope and size does not justify or warrant ignoring all others.

 

[The_Field_Ager]

“Those who forget or ignore the past are doomed to repeat it”.

 

 

 

Except that's not whats happening here. Some folk are attempting to downplay current and ongoing events, the like of which the world hasn't seen for centuries. Old School Islam is back on the world's stage again, and it means business. There has been nothing to compare it too since the Ottoman empire collapsed. It's perfectly OK to focus on one threat and not worry about all the evil the world has ever spawned in the past.

 

A certain someone is simply attempting to minimize the significance of current events, who's scale and actions bear little resemblance to other forms of past violence. The Irony of course is that this same individual is deliberately forgetting about one very significant area of the past, notably 911. All in some misguided and bizarre attempt to absolve Islam of it's true threat to civilization.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Papist

[EspressoBuzz]

A certain someone is simply attempting to minimize the significance of current events, who's scale and actions bear little resemblance to other forms of past violence. The Irony of course is that this same individual is deliberately forgetting about one very significant area of the past, notably 911. All in some misguided and bizarre attempt to absolve Islam of it's true threat to civilization.

 

You sir are an idiot, liar and fool.

 

I watched the towers go up as a child, saw them every day as I left my house in downtown Brooklyn. I worked at 4 world trade center from 1979 until 1995 and lost my car in the Vista Hotel Explosion in Feb of 1993. I watched the towers come down from my house, slack jawed and in disbelief. I lost over a 100 close friends, friends, one time co-workers and others like the firemen I'd share a cigarette with and watch the girls go by with. I attended so many funeral afterward my mind reeled. 9/11 will always be with me because I lived it.

 

When a human stain like yourself comes along and tries to make his agenda mine, his fears mine, his paranoia mine, well i just feel sorry for the tiny tiny human you are, clinging to your hate and fear. Unwilling to hear any voice but your own, or see any solutions but your own hate filled ones. When you finally pass from this world I am sure we as a country will all breathe a sigh of relief.

 

You and your "friends" who are unwilling to condemn the western militias and secretly admire their work have proven it is not terrorism you hate, because when done for something you believe it seems OK, instead you have done everything to distract this thread from it's subject. Why? Is there no room for a discussion about all forms of terror? Apparently not, since you secretly believe that abortion doctor had it coming, that that clinic shouldn't stand and that it is an affront to your religion. Sadly the difference between you and those you not so secretly support is that they have the courage to act and not sit at home condemning others when they shine a light on your twisted thinking. 

[Uptown Redneck]

Uh Oh, some village just lost its idiot.

Are you the missing person the traffic info signs on the Thruway are asking drivers to look for?

[philoshop]

You sir are an idiot, liar and fool.

 

I watched the towers go up as a child, saw them every day as I left my house in downtown Brooklyn. I worked at 4 world trade center from 1979 until 1995 and lost my car in the Vista Hotel Explosion in Feb of 1993. I watched the towers come down from my house, slack jawed and in disbelief. I lost over a 100 close friends, friends, one time co-workers and others like the firemen I'd share a cigarette with and watch the girls go by with. I attended so many funeral afterward my mind reeled. 9/11 will always be with me because I lived it.

 

When a human stain like yourself comes along and tries to make his agenda mine, his fears mine, his paranoia mine, well i just feel sorry for the tiny tiny human you are, clinging to your hate and fear. Unwilling to hear any voice but your own, or see any solutions but your own hate filled ones. When you finally pass from this world I am sure we as a country will all breathe a sigh of relief.

 

You and your "friends" who are unwilling to condemn the western militias and secretly admire their work have proven it is not terrorism you hate, because when done for something you believe it seems OK, instead you have done everything to distract this thread from it's subject. Why? Is there no room for a discussion about all forms of terror? Apparently not, since you secretly believe that abortion doctor had it coming, that that clinic shouldn't stand and that it is an affront to your religion. Sadly the difference between you and those you not so secretly support is that they have the courage to act and not sit at home condemning others when they shine a light on your twisted thinking. 

 

A truly epic rant! Bravo!

Did you have a point?

 

[ants]

Right wing, left wing, extremists who would kill innocent people exist and they are as big pieces of filth at Islamic extremists. But I think that in recent years? right now, Islamic extremists are a far bigger threat to the U.S. and the world, then any other group.

Buzz…Im sorry for the friends you lost on 911, but how many friends have you lost to right wing nut jobs??

Edited April 7, 2016 by ants

[Grouse]

Expresso, does any of this threatening behavior have you at all concerned?

 

http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/04/06/black-lives-matter-co-founder-tweets-killing-men-white-folks/

[ants]

Expresso, does any of this threatening behavior have you at all concerned?

 

http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/04/06/black-lives-matter-co-founder-tweets-killing-men-white-folks/

Black lives matter is proving to to be nothing but a racist hate group. But Shhhhhh.

 

"White lives matter tweets about killing men and black folks"   Can you freaking imagine????

 

They are the true filthy racists. But once again….Shhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

[wildcat junkie]

Expresso,

Your comparison is disgusting. You are doing a service to the radical Islamic movement. Not with a knife to the neck of an innocent person, but with your mouth.

Sounds like a good description of Donald Trump.

[EspressoBuzz]

Ants the reason I have been posting about US non-Islamic terrorist IS because Islam is the greater threat but I was surprised that the number of American lives lost to terrorism here on US soil was slightly higher. But explain your reasoning to me should I not care because I lost no one to them? Must I be blind to them? Is there no room for a discussion of both? I never once diminished the threat that Islamic Terrorist pose but to read the posts here you would think I said It doesn't exist.

 

Grouse, Black Lives Matter hasn't committed any terrorist acts, if you choose to be scared of tweets have at it. Many groups spew rhetoric but the discussion here is about Militia groups and the terrorist ACTIONS they have perpetrated in America. I noticed no one attacking you for elevating Black Lives Matter to Islamic Terror status IN YOUR MIND.

 

It is clear to me that some here cannot support the thought of a threat as large as Islam is to American citizens on US soil, that there are many here that agree and even praise the killing of abortion doctors, bombing of clinics, threatening of federal workers, armed stand offs and traitorous elected officials.