Antler restrictions success? ?

[dbHunterNY]

I'm sure there are all kinds of people that will make regulations as complex as possible and be real happy with that thinking they have set up the "perfect" set of rules. I personally tend to think the other way around. The K.I.S.S. principle is a good thing to aim for when constructing laws for environmental conservation law (or any other kind of law for that matter).

 

It is interesting that co-ops and landowner biases can involve such unfriendly disagreements and harsh results, but I don't see any of that negativity being of value to the perpetuation and health of hunting. I suppose it is just two different ways of looking at how hunting should be for the participants. Some like to see it regulated right to death with no care as to how practical it is to abide by whatever law is set up. I prefer to keep it all simple and easy to accommodate without setting land-mines when it comes to practical legal application.

 

i truly agree with you, that especially here in NYS we don't need to complicate things.  most of us know that no set of rules is perfect.  today's society seems to be all about instant gratification.  on the co-op for example we try to get maximum results as quickly as possible, but still need to have a working plan that's accepted by the community.  our goal based on what hunters could accept for opportunity and improving deer herd was to let a certain percentage of 2.5 or less year old bucks live.  conversations with whitetail biologists and other deer knowledgeable folks, who hunt, to keep the spread restriction if the community would allow.  so we did despite being "complex".  our goal though is to educate the community on basics and have them run with it themselves with less "forced" restrictions on harvest.  I'd hope that we would just become a resource.  that's a bit of pipe dream though.  some don't care to invest time and just want to be told from a QDM perspective what is best to shoot.  for youth or other first time hunters, it will simply new to them.  for these folks it's just a way to keep up with any learning curve.

 

your second paragraph was main reason for posting... I don't want anyone who reads this getting wrong impression of co-ops.  as we've seen even on these forums, people can get passionate about deer hunting and won't agree on everything.  some individuals just aren't as pleasant when around other people.  there's several hundred directly involved with the co-op, whether it be hunters, landowners, property caretakers, all the way down to local businesses and local high school staff that allow us to use their facilities for education and public meetings.  we're destined to hit some negativity speed bumps.  at the end of the day that's the exception not the rule.  neighbors are getting to know one another instead of the cordial wave, education is abundant, hunting is getting better, and people are thinking more about how harvest effects deer and the community.  it's becoming less about what's going in MY freezer or on MY wall.  that does have add "value to the perpetuation and health of hunting."  these co-ops carry on, bound only by voluntary decision and a handshake, in today's world that seems harder and harder to come by.

[dbHunterNY]

Who are you to say thats what they want first? If you read enough of what they say, and become involved with the organization, you would see that the big buck is not the #1 thing they are about.

 

Im not going to argue with you about it, you have your mind made up on what you think reality is, but your big buck obsession is not shared by everyone, or even most people.

 

 

Well guess what..I have had hunting property since 15 years old and have always has an obsession for big bucks with big racks.I just happened to turn that into making a good living.  I say qdma because they are about the only ones that will say..I want a big buck but there is so much more!  Well bottom line is they want the big buck first.

 

I can promise ya that if we stood in front of Bass Pro Shop and asked every hunter what their first wish is when it comes to deer hunting and 8 out of 10 will say...The big 10pt i have been watching on my trail cam or something like..The biggest buck i can find.

 

hey don't listen to WNYBuckHunter, I can send you a QDMA t-shirt that had the words "measure", "success", and "antlers" right on it, if it helps ya.  I won't send it if you don't wear it though.  don't worry they come in grey or olive.  I wouldn't send you a pink shirt or anything.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You mean like this one?

 

https://www.qdma.com/shop/new-qdma-statement-tee

 

[dbHunterNY]

I don't remember it being the "QDMA Statement Tee".  my memory must be bad.  I guess that's the one.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

LOL..Its all fine and well that you boys drank the colored water and try to speak out of the good handbook but its a fact that this industry is fueled by big racked high scoring bucks and will not be a changin any time soon!

 

Just turn the Tv on or walk into any sporting good store,Jump on about any internet site...Including QDMA..and you will see them all working to kill the biggest buck they can.

[Larry]

The_Real_TCIII did you look at the 2015 harvest report on page 15 middle set of graphs. Also check the press release put out by the dec. when they released the harvest report.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Larry

[WNYBuckHunter]

LOL..Its all fine and well that you boys drank the colored water and try to speak out of the good handbook but its a fact that this industry is fueled by big racked high scoring bucks and will not be a changin any time soon!

 

Just turn the Tv on or walk into any sporting good store,Jump on about any internet site...Including QDMA..and you will see them all working to kill the biggest buck they can.

 

[dbHunterNY]

iWKad22.jpg

 

hey he saw it on TV. it must be true.

[the blur]

I went to the QDMA seminar. It was pretty cool. I certainly learned a lot, and will be joining.

[Buck_shooter]

Hunting in pa I do seem to see more and bigger bucks than I did in the past. But there also isn't near the deer herd that there was years ago. Ars began around the same time the state went with a concurrent buck/doe season and a liberal amount of doe tags. I really don't think the ars made as big of a difference as reducing the population and creating a healthier, younger forest for the smaller population. At least that's how it seems in my area. I personally don't think the restrictions helped any but sure made identifying a legal buck more difficult.

[Bowguy 1]

Just my take on it. In Jersey I lived in an area that went QDM. I was doing taxidermy at so obviously Id see some of the better bucks. Within years of the institution on QDM the bucks I was getting in my shop from these areas increased substantially.

Not a scientific approach but real world experience.

Now on the other hand I had a few farms w bombers pretty much always on em.

They made those zones unlimited antlerless deer.

Now besides pounding does, button bucks and drop horn bucks were harvested.

The seasons run in some areas from Sept to Mid Feb.

it's decimated the herds and the bucks are gone.

Hard to find a rag horn there now.

51% of fawns born say biologists are buck fawns.

Add this stuff all up, you'll see why Id rather hunt NY

[growalot]

 

The biggest buck i can find.

 

Lets see,I know I have talked about hunting goals and wishes. Shown some huge racked deer for our area and shot some nice deer over the years...I do not remember saying I hunt to kill the biggest deer in the woods...I have never and most likely, will never have a deer mounted. Not to say if I went on a special elk,moose or bear hunt those wouldn't be. I set many different goals for myself  and yes getting the next biggest deer or the next unusual deer is part of that...but I do not hold a tag and not use it if one doesn't come along. I will use it on some thing that I know is at least 2 1/2 if possible. I went after an older swamp buck...and I have regretted the taste of it since.That will always be in my mind when seeing an older buck ...for I've shot younger rutty buck in the past and NEVER had that happen before.

 

I'm pretty sure I will never fall into the category you think most all hunters do. Hunting for me is really everything I do leading up to the actual hunt...as far as I'm concerned,think it naive if you wish, if I managed to get "Monster buck " on my land and on my cameras  during day light....well than I have already been a successful hunter. It's only luck that would put him there in season and in front of where I happen to be sitting. Then even luck has to be perfect..for I've had that as well..and had to watch as a doe led them away or they decided to bed down out of range and  not respond to calls.  Just to get up and walk the opposite way. Still a successful hunt because no one can take those experiences away from me. Nor can they judge as to just how "big" an experience it was. Lots of things make the "biggest trophy hunt" in a year. To me the size of a rack is down the list a ways.

[Bowguy 1]

Great mindset Growalot

[dbHunterNY]

Just my take on it. In Jersey I lived in an area that went QDM. I was doing taxidermy at so obviously Id see some of the better bucks. Within years of the institution on QDM the bucks I was getting in my shop from these areas increased substantially.

Not a scientific approach but real world experience.

Now on the other hand I had a few farms w bombers pretty much always on em.

They made those zones unlimited antlerless deer.

Now besides pounding does, button bucks and drop horn bucks were harvested.

The seasons run in some areas from Sept to Mid Feb.

it's decimated the herds and the bucks are gone.

Hard to find a rag horn there now.

51% of fawns born say biologists are buck fawns.

Add this stuff all up, you'll see why Id rather hunt NY

 

later season is hard to judge bucks that have shed antlers and button bucks from adult doe.  it will happen and that's ok but if hunters are just dropping button bucks left and right without a care then they lack the understanding why antler restrictions are probably there in the first place.  also sounds like pounding of doe and unlimited antlerless deer take leading to a decimated herd sounds like mis-management and maybe the brakes should've been tapped a couple times on what was implemented to increase harvest.  I don't know where and much about where you're talking about though.  just going off what you've typed.

 

...with some changes I can see you easily getting those bucks back in a few years.

Edited May 20, 2016 by dbHunterNY

[Bowguy 1]

I agree the herds can come back. Btw I feel it's relatively easy to tell bucks from does even shed horn.

Maybe you know this but they walk/stand differently.

[gjs4]

Soil fertility is as key as genetics.... We have the potential for much better deer then we number now almost entirely due to gun Hunter (and the lack of DEC) decision making prioritizing the age of the herd and harvest(s)

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[gjs4]

ARs are just the quickest way to make people who cannot count higher than one hand, or who value deer drives as their only/primary hunt tactic. It's a flawed system. The biggest reason I'd support ar s is for safety of the Hunter (supposedly) verifying the target before the 5 shot running deer volley. The idea that 3 pt min on one side would change the game is absurd.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

Soil fertility is as key as genetics.... We have the potential for much better deer then we number now almost entirely due to gun Hunter (and the lack of DEC) decision making prioritizing the age of the herd and harvest(s)

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Agreed.. 4-6 weeks total season with no guns during the rut. No North and South season. Same times of seasons all across the state.

[Bowguy 1]

I don't feel a shortened season will do anything. Limit harvest but let guys hunt. If you restrict things too much time wise they might just quit.

[G-Man]

Most states gun seasons are much shorter than nys. Some 7 to 10 days only... if you want bigger bucks thay is the fastest way to do it and higrading the herd doesn't happen. Last season was prime example in wny.. buffalo and surrounding area got pounder with 8,ft of snow the year before and 90% of southern tier hunters were stuck at home and missed 2 weekends in a row..plus the week between.. now fast forward to last year, local butchershops and taxidermist got the biggest racked bucks on average that they ever had.. everyone was shooting 2 year old and older bucks it seemed.. why... because 10 days of hunting g 2 weekends the year before had a 90 % drop in hunting so the yearlings made it through.. I do not expect this year to have the same success as last size wise because locally the buck take was up..

[DirtTime]

Agreed.. 4-6 weeks total season with no guns during the rut. No North and South season. Same times of seasons all across the state.

6 weeks would be fine.

The NZ - SZ rules, let them be. No solid reason to change that. If they do, then I want the seasons LI gets across the board! I want a January season for gun, vert bow, crossbow, along with ML. If we are going to make the whole state have the same seasons then LI should be included in the entire state too.

 

No guns during the rut..... You have got to be kidding! So prime time is for the bow hunters and gun hunters get the leftovers? Nope, don't agree with this.

[nyantler]

 

No guns during the rut..... You have got to be kidding! So prime time is for the bow hunters and gun hunters get the leftovers? Nope, don't agree with this.

 

...and neither will the majority of deer hunters in NY. This idea seems to be just the latest and greatest attempt at, so called, deer management since the conversion of "Quality" Deer Management to deer farming. Maybe we ought to get back to thinking about all aspects of whitetail management instead of concentrating on just bigger bucks, less doe, or bigger and better food plots and trail cams.

[Larry]

First you have to know what the rut is and it looks like most of you don’t have a clue. Or don’t know what part of the rut you’re even talking about. First other than the post rut phase the breeding phase is the best time to have the gun season. Bucks are moving less during this time and harder to find unless you find one with a doe.
So with the rut starting as early as mid-October and running though mid – December. We should have the gun season the last 2 weeks of January and the first 2 week of February and make it only antlered deer only. This will save even more bucks, also move the bow season to the 2nd week of September to the end of October then no one hunts the rut and we can save more bucks.  

[gjs4]

It is so apparent why we can't have nice things in NYS

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[G-Man]

It is so apparent why we can't have nice things in NYS

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We really do have it good in ny.. the problem is we got rid of monday opener, that killed the deer camp, guys would take a week off of work to hunt go home and maybe go out amother weekend if they wern't successful. Now it's rush to camp fri night hunt sat sunday am and rush home.. we created an army of weekend warriors.. so because of the 1.5 days they have to hunt a week the mentality changes to shoot quick.. while a vacation in a short season will lead to greater selectivity..