Asking Permission

[jjb4900]

4 hours ago, wfmiller said:

As someone said before, don't show up at the last minute in your camo. Go now and start knocking on doors, heck you should of done it months ago. Also you don't need to dress up, but don't look like you just got done working in your yard, or after you've had a couple beers. Offer to give them some meat if you get one. My dad and I hunt a farm right down the street from me and every year we take a bag of meat to them after the season and a christmas card with a $100 in it. We've been there 4 or 5 years now and he lets us keep our 4 wheelers there for the season and this year he agreed to let us put in a food plot. No matter what happens be nice, and thank them for their time. 

I agree on the "heck you should of done it months ago." part.

[sweet old bill]

that the way to do it. and if they say no make sure you thank them .

 

[Bowguy 1]

Idk if there's really a giant trick to asking permission. One thing that helps is if you're from the area or sound n look like it. i know lots of the farms I hunt people from out of area have asked n gotten an instant no. This is no dis on anyone. 

Some I'm sure are good folks but it's easier if you know the guy somewhat or seem a local. Maybe buy eggs each trip up, see a farmer peering into a truck, stop n ask if he needs help. Escaped cows in the road, let the farmer know n see if they need help rounding them up. 

After a few encounters just inquire if ever he or she would consider letting you bowhunt, turkey hunt whatever. Keep the request small n it may be granted. Before the next season ask for that. 

Remember lots of guys approach landowners or farmers n once you get a spot don't take it for granted. You're there n they're unloading a hay trailer, help. Offer to keep an eye on place when the farmer isn't around. Don't be pushy just be available. 

And don't drive in the damn fields. No farmer ever bought a field for you to drive through. Ask before you do so n preferably don't even ask. He'll offer if it's ok. 

another thing once you get on. Hunt like you were tresspassing. That's a motto I live by n it works. Leave no sign you were there, don't hunt near houses or livestock n don't shoot towards roads or tresspass on the neighbors. If he starts getting grief it won't be worth it. 

[DirtTime]

Never ask why they said no either. Two biggest reasons I have gotten told no this season are "we only let family hunt our land" and "it's a liability so we don't allow hunting on our land". So far, all were polite and I thanked them just as politely and went on my way.

I have a few more places to ask, then I have to get shooting the bow more and get some scouting public land in. Time is flying and the season is close.

[Core]

I'm also east of rochester.

I'll admit I probably left it late also. Hay season was a while back I understand, and offering help there would be useful. 

I've visited one land owner who I had a lead on so far but he wasn't home, so I left a message. I don't expect a call back.

Tonight I found out who owns a farm close to me and will probably ask him this weekend. The problem is, as mentioned above, most people will say no, and I have to assume most farmers already have friends/family on their land. The farm within bow range of my house (literally) I won't bother asking because despite being huge and awesome and deer 30 seconds from my house, I know he hunts.

Anyway, I planned that after asking, before the person had a chance to say no, that I would offer some form of compensation.

I can hunt one friend's house in Marion, but it's not an ideal spot. It's only through weird word of mouth they even found out I hunt and then I was like hi, let's do this. I am going to give them meat if I get anything.

Mostly I plan on doing what I did last year: public land in the lake shore marshes. There are deer there.

Oh, and I absolutely intend on doing any requests with one of my daughters in tow to try and soften any resistance

Edited August 19, 2016 by Core

[Core]

27 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Never ask why they said no either. Two biggest reasons I have gotten told no this season are "we only let family hunt our land" and "it's a liability so we don't allow hunting on our land". So far, all were polite and I thanked them just as politely and went on my way.

I have a few more places to ask, then I have to get shooting the bow more and get some scouting public land in. Time is flying and the season is close.

You don't want to argue with a home owner, but it specifically is NOT a liability by new york law, it is plain as day if a farmer lets you on their land there is no liability for them. This could be a BS answer from them, though, to get you on your way.

[DirtTime]

1 minute ago, Core said:

You don't want to argue with a home owner, but it specifically is NOT a liability by new york law, it is plain as day if a farmer lets you on their land there is no liability for them. This could be a BS answer from them, though, to get you on your way.

Like you said, I am not going to argue with anyone. It would send the wrong message, and in the country, most people know and are friendly with their neighbors, and word travels fast. Not going to be that guy. Even if someone was rude I would still be polite.

[Core]

4 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Like you said, I am not going to argue with anyone. It would send the wrong message, and in the country, most people know and are friendly with their neighbors, and word travels fast. Not going to be that guy. Even if someone was rude I would still be polite.

Agreed. I know this is a tiny bit of sour grapes, but honestly if you can find access to good public land that isn't over-pressured there is a real freedom to it. Nobody can kick you off it and you don't owe anybody anything when you take a deer. Yes, I still want a private spot. If only I lived closer to some public tracts I would be perfectly content with them and never have to worry about finding land

[DirtTime]

I have public land near me. Some gets hit hard. I do have permission to hunt a couple hundred acres in the NZ. I was told I couldn't hunt do to logging this season ( yes, I know, again, been friends with the family or a long time so def would not argue with them  ), but was told the other day that logging will be done mid October so I should be able to hunt there this season. 

[OldNewbie]

Here's something that DIDN'T work:  I wrote a note explaining I was looking for permission to bowhunt a neighbor's land and left it in their mailbox. Didn't hear anything for a week, so this morning I drove past and just by luck he was in his driveway. I stopped, introduced myself as the person who left the note. He told me it was illegal to leave unregistered mail in someone's mailbox and told me "because of that, leave and don't come back!" 

After that, I decided he is probably not someone whose land I would want to hunt, even if he did give me permission.

The second guy said no because he leases the land to a farmer, used to allow hunting, had issues in past.. He was nice enough so I gave him a paper with my name /number and asked him to call me if he changed his mind.

Overall my method of leaving a note in the mailbox, then following up in person has been successful 1 in 3 tries. This is for people I don't know, never met, and in some cases, don't even know their name (land was sold and tax map not updated).

[fasteddie]

I shot many woodchucks for a farmer on Lincoln Road in Walworth . Never got permission to deer hunt there due to "relatives hunt" . They did give me some potatoes and a jug of maple syrup as a thanks .

I got rid of some varmints for another farmer  in Walworth . Whenever I see him he tells me that he has lots of deer on the property but has never given me permission to hunt there . Allegedly his sons hunts there . I saw him last night and he mentioned lots of deer . I said I would be glad to help with the problem . 

That's the way the cookie crumbles !

[Buckmaster7600]

Unfortunately for many now a days just asking isn't enough. I have a farm that I have sole permission to hunt their 1300acres. I stopped 1 day when they were chopping hay and told them I had a Cdl and would be willing to drive silage truck on my days off for permission to bow hunt. After the first year he pulled me aside and told me he is tired of dealing with people and that he has told everyone else not to hunt it and if I saw anyone on his property to call the cops. Now that it's been a few years he pays me and I still get to hunt it. I have another 500acres behind my land that is a privately owned landfill right after they opened I went and talked to the manager and told him that everyday I smelled the dump that I was calling dec, after 5 or 6 calls in a couple of weeks he came to my house to talk to me and I told him I could probably deal with the smell if I could hunt the property. He said no at first and a few days later he stopped by again and told me it was all mine to hunt as long as the harassment stopped. That was 3 years ago and I wave to him every time I drive past his office to hunt.

It sucks that times have changed so much but you almost always have to have something to offer to sweeten the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jaeger]

On 8/18/2016 at 9:11 PM, Core said:

You don't want to argue with a home owner, but it specifically is NOT a liability by new york law, it is plain as day if a farmer lets you on their land there is no liability for them. This could be a BS answer from them, though, to get you on your way.

That is not exactly correct.  A landowner is still liable to non-paying recreational user for hazzards he is aware of but hasn't fixed or warned them about.

This means any uncovered old wells, possibly old fencing, etc.  It is not yet an absolute elimination of landowner liability.

And from a practical point of view, even if the landowner is found not liable, he or she has gone through the expense of having to hire a lawyer and fight it in or out of court.  That's a hassle that most landowners are aware of and do not even want to start down that road.

As a former large landowner, I and others, was always aprehensive about trespassing knuclkeheads hurting them selves and trying to sue, and yes there will always be someone to take their case and leave the landowner in the position of having to fight it.

No landowner wants that hassle or expense.  So, when he does say yes, provide him with a liability waiver (in his favor not yours).

[Core]

Seems like the stuff I read in some books and online about "just dress nice and ask!" are a little tougher in reality, based on some posts in this thread.

I read something recently from some big north american hunting conference that said access to locations to hunt is the biggest problem identified by hunters. I'd definitely hold that position. It's not surprising that if you own a bunch of acreage and you have friends/family who hunt it you're never going to let a stranger do that. So in a lot of cases the only way you can gain permission to hunt property is if, somehow, the person who owns it doesn't actually have any family who hunt or any friends who have yet asked (I'm sure there are occasional exceptions to this).

It's not so surprising people put posted signs up the yin yang.

Sure would be good if NY had, or expands what they do have, for outreaching to land owners to let people hunt. The state could setup a system and you register within it (so that if you act the fool people know you did) and it tries to hook land owners up with hunters, with compensation for land owners. Given the hassle others experience here, I bet a lot of us would happily spend a little money to lease some land. If the state did this they could emphasize over and over that you will be completely unliable for anything on your property (unless negligent as jaeger above points out).

[First-light]

As a land owner it would be really hard for me to say yes to a total stranger. It would take time getting to know the person first for me to make a judgement. Just trying to help out here and think of things that could work. I would try to look over a place especially if the landowner is from out-of-town and see what needs to be done around camp. Put your skills to work. I know one year I had a problem keeping up with mowing the lawn which was a few acres. I could see working out a deal with someone over that. 

[Core]

Honestly can anybody here say they've ever seen this sticker? I read about it in the NY hunting guidelines and I'm thinking yeah right! I've never, ever seen one of these.

[Dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, Core said:

Honestly can anybody here say they've ever seen this sticker? I read about it in the NY hunting guidelines and I'm thinking yeah right! I've never, ever seen one of these.

 

There's a couple of trails in the Catskills that cross private land (Double Top comes to mind) and you are supposed to call before you hike....but it has nothing to do with hunting.

I've had zero luck in asking permission from complete strangers and very limited even if I had an introduction.

Plenty of offers if I have a pile of cash.....LOL

 

[jperch]

This will be my 46 th year of deer hunting and I am lucky to be able to hunt with a couple of the same people from my initial deer camp.  Back then we had access to 200 acres of prime oak forest  South of Rochester.  We also had permission to camp.  Our deer camp consisted of 6 to 8 hunters.  We had this arrangement because we offered to work a couple of days during the summer for the landowner.  We cut firewood, cleaned his heating system, painted and did general maintenance.  He usually provided meals.  We became good friends over the years and it was a great relationship.  We lost the right to hunt that property after he passed.

After that experience my uncle bought a small property that bordered state land.  As I became older I made it a priority to purchase hunting land by borrowing for a down payment on a small property that the owner was willing to hold the mortgage on.  It made things extremely tight at the time but I am very happy that I did so.  I have had many people ask permission to hunt but never once has anyone offered to give a hand.  Of course there has been the usual problems with trespassers and poachers, even timber theft.  My advice for obtaining permission to hunt is to politely approach the landowner, acknowledge that hunting on his/her property is valuable to you and offer compensation in the form of elbow grease.  This worked for me on another farm property where previously no hunting of any kind was allowed.

 

[Jaeger]

4 hours ago, Core said:

Honestly can anybody here say they've ever seen this sticker? I read about it in the NY hunting guidelines and I'm thinking yeah right! I've never, ever seen one of these.

Had them and used them with my property.  There is also an accompanying Blue cardboard permission card that can be filled out by both the landowner and the permitted hunter.  I used them and anyone with permission to hunt on my land carried it.  If you didn't have it, you were trespassing.

 

As an aside, I know there are really wealthy people who have large chunks of land and farm owners who most likely inherited their large land holdings.  Many of the "good hunting properties" you are trying to get permission to hunt on are thus off limits at any price.

But guys, consider this.  It was mentioned above about leasing land and sometimes that all someone can afford.

 But most of the large 50-200 acre private land holdings in the area I owned were owned by normal people like you and me who spent their every last dime to get and hold onto their land.  They didn't drive fancy $50K new trucks or anything like that.  The had regular jobs and for them and me, hunting and land ownership was our main priority.  Not bowling, golfing, having the fanciest car or biggest house.

I for one put hunting and land ownership above everything else and spent every last dime of my savings to have it.  For me it was not a part time hobby and it is a lot of those who just want to come up and hunt hundreds of someone else's acres for free that just don't get it.  If you want a place of your own to hunt, you have to be willing to sacrifice to have it.  Plenty of us do (or in my case, did).  If its not your main priority, fine but don't cry about not being able to use that of those who sacrifice for free or dirt cheap.

Sorry guys, but I had too many "serious" hunters show up at my door step and get really mad when they got out of their brand new $65k pickups  and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Put it first, buy your own.

Otherwise, hunt the 100,000+++ acres of public land you drive through to get to the private land.  That's free.

[Core]

28 minutes ago, Jaeger said:

Had them and used them with my property.  There is also an accompanying Blue cardboard permission card that can be filled out by both the landowner and the permitted hunter.  I used them and anyone with permission to hunt on my land carried it.  If you didn't have it, you were trespassing.

 

As an aside, I know there are really wealthy people who have large chunks of land and farm owners who most likely inherited their large land holdings.  Many of the "good hunting properties" you are trying to get permission to hunt on are thus off limits at any price.

But guys, consider this.  It was mentioned above about leasing land and sometimes that all someone can afford.

 But most of the large 50-200 acre private land holdings in the area I owned were owned by normal people like you and me who spent their every last dime to get and hold onto their land.  They didn't drive fancy $50K new trucks or anything like that.  The had regular jobs and for them and me, hunting and land ownership was our main priority.  Not bowling, golfing, having the fanciest car or biggest house.

I for one put hunting and land ownership above everything else and spent every last dime of my savings to have it.  For me it was not a part time hobby and it is a lot of those who just want to come up and hunt hundreds of someone else's acres for free that just don't get it.  If you want a place of your own to hunt, you have to be willing to sacrifice to have it.  Plenty of us do (or in my case, did).  If its not your main priority, fine but don't cry about not being able to use that of those who sacrifice for free or dirt cheap.

Sorry guys, but I had too many "serious" hunters show up at my door step and get really mad when they got out of their brand new $65k pickups  and wouldn't take no for an answer.

Put it first, buy your own.

Otherwise, hunt the 100,000+++ acres of public land you drive through to get to the private land.  That's free.

I absolutely get it. I'm actually surprised anybody into hunting or who has family into it would let a stranger onto their land. This is only my second year, but I could really see buying some land a few years out. Pretty much impossible with the kids currently sucking me dry like a bunch of vampires.

The good news is western NY is growing slowly enough that development shouldn't be crowding me out any time soon.

It's easy to cry, but at the end of the day the difference between public and private is basically an hour total driving each time I go hunting plus I "have" to use a climbing stand. Even if I go out 15 times, it's hardly a bunch of lost time per season to be honest.

[G-Man]

7 hours ago, Core said:

Honestly can anybody here say they've ever seen this sticker? I read about it in the NY hunting guidelines and I'm thinking yeah right! I've never, ever seen one of these.

Yes I have seen many around. But knowing the owner I have knowledge that none have asked. But I do see hunters Hunting it.

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, Core said:

I absolutely get it. I'm actually surprised anybody into hunting or who has family into it would let a stranger onto their land. This is only my second year, but I could really see buying some land a few years out. Pretty much impossible with the kids currently sucking me dry like a bunch of vampires.

The good news is western NY is growing slowly enough that development shouldn't be crowding me out any time soon.

It's easy to cry, but at the end of the day the difference between public and private is basically an hour total driving each time I go hunting plus I "have" to use a climbing stand. Even if I go out 15 times, it's hardly a bunch of lost time per season to be honest.

You don't need to use a climbing stand, I would bet more deer are taken off the ground than from a stand.. 

[Core]

7 minutes ago, G-Man said:

You don't need to use a climbing stand, I would bet more deer are taken off the ground than from a stand.. 

Yes, but not by me  I mean if you're going to use a stand there is a stronger reason to if on public than private. 

[DirtTime]

16 minutes ago, Core said:

Yes, but not by me  I mean if you're going to use a stand there is a stronger reason to if on public than private. 

Um, no. Tree stands were designed ( even back when they were just boards nailed to a tree and a few 2x4 nestled in the crotch of a tree ) to get better sight line of incoming game, and get your scent up and hopefully away from deer. The use of them has nothing to do with private or public land. 

[jjb4900]

16 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Um, no. Tree stands were designed ( even back when they were just boards nailed to a tree and a few 2x4 nestled in the crotch of a tree ) to get better sight line of incoming game, and get your scent up and hopefully away from deer. The use of them has nothing to do with private or public land. 

I could see someone wanting to use one on heavily hunted public land as a safety thing.........up out of the line of fire so to speak.