Leasing Ruins Conservation

[Four Season Whitetail's]

10 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

yeah, it kinda borders on being comical and embarrassing. 

Whats comical is watching some say they have problems finding good property to hunt but let the clock and father time dictate their outcome. An hour drive to hunt trophy potential land is nothing. Some of us drive 30-45 minutes to enjoy a 3D shoot once a week. I mean really. Unless you are a new hunter with no wheels and living at home with parents there is not many reasons not to be able to go hunt great land on your free time.

[jjb4900]

10 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Whats comical is watching some say they have problems finding good property to hunt but let the clock and father time dictate their outcome. An hour drive to hunt trophy potential land is nothing. Some of us drive 30-45 minutes to enjoy a 3D shoot once a week. I mean really. Unless you are a new hunter with no wheels and living at home with parents there is not many reasons not to be able to go hunt great land on your free time.

oh, I agree, that wasn't directed at any one group at all......

[Core]

47 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

yeah, it kinda borders on being comical and embarrassing. 

Haha, of all the things said in this thread I think this may be the least controversial 

[bruno1]

Now I know I'm crazy. I drive 7 hours one way to deer hunt Alleghany State Park. Takes me an hour just to get around NYC

[Core]

6 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Where are you in Rochester that you are 11/2 hour from the park? Zip right down 390, I wish i was that close. I leave 1000 acres of our great farm land to drive 3 hours to our camp to spend 5 weeks hunting the park. Ya get out what ya put in!

I'm east of Rochester. Your driving time is an immaterial part of your hunting trip if you're spending weeks hunting at a time, you must admit. For people who don't have that time, driving time becomes a meaningful variable. Family commitments mean I'm hunting for short periods of time.

Still finding it very difficult to believe the claims that private land, on the whole, is not better than public. If it weren't, people wouldn't buy it, people wouldn't lease it. It is that simple.

Comment above about public land and bow hunting. I've said many times the particular public land I hunt doesn't have a lot of pressure, and it has deer. I like it. But, I still have to drive a bit, I still can't safely put cams out, still can't leave my stand there, etc. So one day I'd like private.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Core

[Padre86]

8 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

You got that right. We own 798 acres of some pretty awesome hunting and i still spend more time at camp down there. Camp is just outside Castile entrance and we have 129 acres that border the safety zone on the Mt Morris entrance.

 

So just to be clear then, you're not hunting in Letchworth SP itself, but on private land close by, correct?  

If that is the case, I'm not really certain why you're telling me that I have it easy with accessible public land.  If I follow you correctly, you're not hunting on state land, but rather private land, which as others have pointed out is an apple to oranges comparison.

 

And I still don't get why you drive 3 hours or so downstate  to go hunt when you have hundreds of acres of private land and millions of acres of public land right within or next to your home county.  Yes, I get it that the western NY bucks might be a little bigger than the Northern Zone ones, but still a deer is a deer...I wouldn't care too much about rack size if I were in your shoes.  There is plenty of farmland bordering both Tug Hill and the ADK's where you could find decent-sized deer if that's what you're looking for.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Padre86

[Four Season Whitetail's]

5 hours ago, Core said:

I'm east of Rochester. Your driving time is an immaterial part of your hunting trip if you're spending weeks hunting at a time, you must admit. For people who don't have that time, driving time becomes a meaningful variable. Family commitments mean I'm hunting for short periods of time.

Still finding it very difficult to believe the claims that private land, on the whole, is not better than public. If it weren't, people wouldn't buy it, people wouldn't lease it. It is that simple.

Comment above about public land and bow hunting. I've said many times the particular public land I hunt doesn't have a lot of pressure, and it has deer. I like it. But, I still have to drive a bit, I still can't safely put cams out, still can't leave my stand there, etc. So one day I'd like private.

I wish.. Home at least 1 day a week to feed the critters and maybe visit the wife..Maybe!!! I can tell ya whats happening in the woods by the numbers of dead deer on the thruway and 390 every week.

All im saying is a miles and hours will never hold up a person that really wants to hunt and needs a place. And from Rochester on there is some of the best in the state.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 hours ago, Padre86 said:

So just to be clear then, you're not hunting in Letchworth SP itself, but on private land close by, correct?  

If that is the case, I'm not really certain why you're telling me that I have it easy with accessible public land.  If I follow you correctly, you're not hunting on state land, but rather private land, which as others have pointed out is an apple to oranges comparison.

 

And I still don't get why you drive 3 hours or so downstate  to go hunt when you have hundreds of acres of private land and millions of acres of public land right within or next to your home county.  Yes, I get it that the western NY bucks might be a little bigger than the Northern Zone ones, but still a deer is a deer...I wouldn't care too much about rack size if I were in your shoes.  There is plenty of farmland bordering both Tug Hill and the ADK's where you could find decent-sized deer if that's what you're looking for.

HaHa..Thats not quite the case..Yes i do a few sits on the farm but 80% of my time is spent watching great bucks cross the river between East and West sides chasing tail.

We have shy of 1000 acres of some great hunting right out my back door but trust me when i say a deer is not a deer when it comes to what i am after. They make very few of them up here and nothing compared to how many are down there. Tug Hill and the Dak's are a joke compared to Letchworth and Rattlesnake when it comes to mature whitetail bucks.

If i was just after a brown deer then yes your right. I could sit a my picnic table opening day and shoot a brown deer. Takes a little more than that for me these days.

[DirtTime]

5 hours ago, Core said:

Comment above about public land and bow hunting. I've said many times the particular public land I hunt doesn't have a lot of pressure, and it has deer. I like it. But, I still have to drive a bit, I still can't safely put cams out, still can't leave my stand there, etc. So one day I'd like private.

I am not making a jab, but you sure are lucky you didn't start hunting when many of us did. No cams, no computers, no cell phones, and no battery operated bug repellent. The only affordable camo available to the average hunter was woodland, or for $10 more you might get "Tiger Stripe". Your 'under armor' was old fashioned basic insulated underwear and sweat shirt/pants under over sized clothing. Carbon arrows were just taking off ( OK, when I got into hunting they were just taking off and were expensive as hell ) for compounds. About 80% of the southern zone was shotgun only, no rifles, and the shotgun could not have a rifled slug barrel. Those were some tough times. It was hell! PURE HELL I TELL YOU! 

Well, what the thread was about is leasing ruins conservation. I don't see it that way. If you lease and are allowed to put in food plots and so on, as many do, you are helping the land and the game population.

Like I have said, and a few others, is leasing takes opportunities away from people who can't afford to lease. The guy that used to let you hunt for helping toss a few bails of hay, is now getting $10,000 to allow a group to hunt and you are out.

[The_Real_TCIII]

I am not making a jab, but you sure are lucky you didn't start hunting when many of us did. No cams, no computers, no cell phones, and no battery operated bug repellent. The only affordable camo available to the average hunter was woodland, or for $10 more you might get "Tiger Stripe". Your 'under armor' was old fashioned basic insulated underwear and sweat shirt/pants under over sized clothing. Carbon arrows were just taking off ( OK, when I got into hunting they were just taking off and were expensive as hell ) for compounds. About 80% of the southern zone was shotgun only, no rifles, and the shotgun could not have a rifled slug barrel. Those were some tough times. It was hell! PURE HELL I TELL YOU! 

Well, what the thread was about is leasing ruins conservation. I don't see it that way. If you lease and are allowed to put in food plots and so on, as many do, you are helping the land and the game population.

Like I have said, and a few others, is leasing takes opportunities away from people who can't afford to lease. The guy that used to let you hunt for helping toss a few bails of hay, is now getting $10,000 to allow a group to hunt and you are out.

You left out that we couldn't hunt Sunday's!!


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[DirtTime]

6 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

You left out that we couldn't hunt Sunday's!!


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 not that old.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ....rob

[The_Real_TCIII]

I am


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[Padre86]

12 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

HaHa..Thats not quite the case..Yes i do a few sits on the farm but 80% of my time is spent watching great bucks cross the river between East and West sides chasing tail.

We have shy of 1000 acres of some great hunting right out my back door but trust me when i say a deer is not a deer when it comes to what i am after. They make very few of them up here and nothing compared to how many are down there. Tug Hill and the Dak's are a joke compared to Letchworth and Rattlesnake when it comes to mature whitetail bucks.

 

Again, I'll ask where are you hunting them in Letchworth SP?  

I'm not asking for a grid location.  But in general, are you hunting them in the gorge itself?  

Are you hunting them on the high ground on either side of the river?  If so, what are you using for a backstop?  There are roads and private lands very close to both sides of the park, so outside of archery, I don't know how you'd be taking shots on the high ground.

I've been there before, as well as to Rattlesnake.  And while I'll concede those pieces of state land have higher deer densities than the remote parts of the Northern Zone, I've never thought them to be the trophy buck havens that you're making them out to be.   

And  I still don't get why you're making that drive.  There is plenty of clearing, logged land and farmland on the edges of both Tug Hill and the ADK's.  I'm sure if you posted up on the public land adjacent to those areas, you'd have no trouble finding a decent-sized buck.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Padre86

[covert]

22 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Whats comical is watching some say they have problems finding good property to hunt but let the clock and father time dictate their outcome. An hour drive to hunt trophy potential land is nothing. Some of us drive 30-45 minutes to enjoy a 3D shoot once a week. I mean really. Unless you are a new hunter with no wheels and living at home with parents there is not many reasons not to be able to go hunt great land on your free time.

Ha ha, then you have the other dummies like me who leave the farm crawling with deer and drive 45 minutes, then walk another hour back in the Adirondacks to sleep in a tent where there is like .5 deer per square mile.

[covert]

Honestly from time to time I've considered leasing my place out too.  Between the crop lease and a hunting lease I could cover at least the Town/County tax and maybe have a little left to put towards the school taxes.  I don't let anyone hunt on it anyway so it's not like anyone (but me) would be losing a spot.  How many properties that are now leased would be open for anyone to hunt if they weren't?

[Buckmaster7600]

Ha ha, then you have the other dummies like me who leave the farm crawling with deer and drive 45 minutes, then walk another hour back in the Adirondacks to sleep in a tent where there is like .5 deer per square mile.

I thought I was the only one dumb enough to leave our farm that is also crawling with deer to drive 2 hrs to a camp with nothing more than a roof and a wood stove to walk miles and miles to try and see a deer.

I like your style!


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[covert]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

 

 

I thought I was the only one dumb enough to leave our farm that is also crawling with deer to drive 2 hrs to a camp with nothing more than a roof and a wood stove to walk miles and miles to try and see a deer.

I like your style!


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Yeah, anybody can shoot those fat lazy weak home deer.  I want tough, stringy old Big Woods bucks!

[Buckmaster7600]

Yeah, anybody can shoot those fat lazy weak home deer.  I want tough, stringy old Big Woods bucks!

Yea, why would anyone want to eat a deer that has been eating corn,soybeans, alfalfa apples and acorns when you can eat one that been eating prickers and bark!


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[growalot]

Thought I'd do some of you a favor and  google an area 1 1/2 hrs from Rochester that is filled with state parks...

Here's a directional map..now zoom in on the map and every one of these parks names will appear... Good hunting? well our camps been in that area for ever...Family has hunted these areas for ever..yes some good hunting.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Turnpike+State+Forest,+Almond,+NY+14804/Rochester,+NY/@42.7241466,-78.3582201,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d18bfe050e1b1d:0xd19e3a7d9b2b8a7f!2m2!1d-77.8424456!2d42.2989891!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!2m2!1d-77.6109219!2d43.16103

[Padre86]

15 minutes ago, growalot said:

Thought I'd do some of you a favor and  google an area 1 1/2 hrs from Rochester that is filled with state parks...

Here's a directional map..now zoom in on the map and every one of these parks names will appear... Good hunting? well our camps been in that area for ever...Family has hunted these areas for ever..yes some good hunting.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Turnpike+State+Forest,+Almond,+NY+14804/Rochester,+NY/@42.7241466,-78.3582201,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d18bfe050e1b1d:0xd19e3a7d9b2b8a7f!2m2!1d-77.8424456!2d42.2989891!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!2m2!1d-77.6109219!2d43.16103

Lol...trust me Grow, I know which public lands are in close proximity to Rochester.  Thank you for your Google expertise though.

If you'd like to put your money where your mouth is, you're more than welcome to come out with me and show me in person where all this "good hunting" is on those public lands.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Padre86

[growalot]

That post ...Well ..." It wasn't all about you" dear heart

PS.... seeing you wanted to make this snarky...well in totaling up over 20,000 acres of public hunting land in that general area...if you can't find any "good deer", hunting...you may want to refer back to one of my previous posts

Edited September 9, 2016 by growalot

[left field]

I was at an art opening last weekend in Delaware County. Easily half the people there were gay couples who have second homes in the country. On average, their properties were 90 acres. Few of them hunt, but they all have gardens that get destroyed by deer.

Comb your hair, tuck in your shirt, develop a little light banter and hit the gay country cocktail circuit. You'll have no end of places to hunt.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

11 hours ago, Padre86 said:

Again, I'll ask where are you hunting them in Letchworth SP?  

I'm not asking for a grid location.  But in general, are you hunting them in the gorge itself?  

Are you hunting them on the high ground on either side of the river?  If so, what are you using for a backstop?  There are roads and private lands very close to both sides of the park, so outside of archery, I don't know how you'd be taking shots on the high ground.

I've been there before, as well as to Rattlesnake.  And while I'll concede those pieces of state land have higher deer densities than the remote parts of the Northern Zone, I've never thought them to be the trophy buck havens that you're making them out to be.   

And  I still don't get why you're making that drive.  There is plenty of clearing, logged land and farmland on the edges of both Tug Hill and the ADK's.  I'm sure if you posted up on the public land adjacent to those areas, you'd have no trouble finding a decent-sized buck.

Well if you have been to the park like you say you have then you know there are many places on the park the most sane people will never see. Thats where you will find us. You may find our hip boots hid in the rock cut and you may find our ropes that we tie off on the west and east and cross the river. You may even see our hand cart with 1000 feet of cable that ran by 2 marine batteries strapped off to a tree on a cliff that we use to pull bucks out. You may even come across one half or the other of one of the 120 inch plus bucks that we take off the park pretty much every year. And if you get up real early and get down there you may find my tree stand with my Matthews hanging in the tree waiting for me. I highly doubt that will ever happen because we rarely ever see another hunter where we are but we do seem to see a pile of deer sitting on their tails coming down those banks headed to the river bottom.

Thats not to say you may not see me up at the Chipmunk trail waiting on another 132 inch bruiser coming up out of the bottom headed up to the Alfalfa field on the Highbanks road.

When i tell you our 1000 acres here is three times better hunting than you will ever find on Tug Hill its not a crock and regardless of the crops we plant or anything we do to help the deer we will never find the bucks that we find down there. The soil has alot to do with the big picture i believe.

So there is plenty of room for you to put on a pair of walking shoes and go find yourself the biggest buck you have ever laid eyes on or you can sit in the pines opening morning just off the Castile entrance and have a chance to see a good buck but a great chance of filling your buck and doe tag before lunch.

Or you can sit at home complaining that you have no place to hunt unless you drive an hour to get there. Either way..Good Luck in your searches and if you want to drive 21/2 hours North you can sit in my tree stands here while i am down there.

[LJC]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:19 PM, Core said:

I just came upon this article. Didn't much care for it because let's get real if the author owned that 300 acres he would do what all other land-owning hunters do: keep it to himself. Does it matter if a person is paying a lease for land access or owns the land and puts posted signs up everywhere?

It is easy to say leasing is no good but not everyone owns 100 acres next to orchards and corn fields.

To be fair everything the author said is true. What he failed to point out is that it is also applicable to private land owners. I am surrounded by amazing deer hunting land and nothing but posted signs (I don't blame them though).



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In some European countries when you buy a hunting licenses it gives  you the right to hunt all lands even private land  as long as you stay x number of feet from any building road on that property personal I think that's the way it should be people dont  own the wildlife on there property the state does  just because you own the land  should not stop others from hunting  it as long as they stay at a safe distance from your home .

Why does some guy with 1000 acres get to be the only one to hunt it when those deer belong to everyone . 

[The_Real_TCIII]

I was at an art opening last weekend in Delaware County. Easily half the people there were gay couples who have second homes in the country. On average, their properties were 90 acres. Few of them hunt, but they all have gardens that get destroyed by deer.

Comb your hair, tuck in your shirt, develop a little light banter and hit the gay country cocktail circuit. You'll have no end of places to hunt.

 

Way ahead of you!