Maybe NY State should implement this type of program

[shu9265]

Man Pleads Guilty to Poaching $23,000 Trophy Buck

http://dnr.state.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=a%2FcjEDZK60E%3D&tabid=18274

Ohio has compiled a fine system that sets a monetary value on fish and wildlife that are taken illegally.

When a poacher is caught , the system can assign an estimated value on the fish or game in question.

These monies are then put back  into the fish and wildlife dept.

[shu9265]

Sorry everyone, I forgot to add look at page 14 of the article.

[5.9cummins]

Here is the link to the[/url] restitution law.

In short the formula is. Anything over 125 B&C.

Additional restitution value = ((gross score – 100)² x $1.65)

23,752.05 / 1.65 = 15,834.7

Square Root of 15,834.7 = 125.836

125.836 + 100 = [glow=red,2,300]225.836 Gross [/glow]

[G-Man]

IT would be nice to see the fine increased and more importantly the laws enforced!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

See, Ohio has their stuff together. Should be the same deal here.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Here is the link to the restitution law.

In short the formula is. Anything over 125 B&C.

Additional restitution value = ((gross score – 100)² x $1.65)

23,752.05 / 1.65 = 15,834.7

Square Root of 15,834.7 = 125.836

125.836 + 100 = [glow=red,2,300]225.836 Gross [/glow]

Wow...couldn't follow that...lol

example using the 197 inch buch taken would be

197-100=97

97x97=9,409

9,409x1.65=15,525

[Karpteach]

I wonder what math wiz came up with that formula.

[outdoorstom]

We are definitely way to easy on poachers in this State.....we could learn a lot from Ohio on this.

[moose]

Yes NY is way to easy. Only if they would make the game laws stricter and enforce them more. It's kinda funny, You hear people walking around saying that they shot seven bucks that year and bragging about it. One, we have to get off of our butts and start turning these people in, no matter who they are and two, start enforcing the laws we have. I don't know about you, but it is hard to do that when you only have 3-4 DEC officers covering a whole county. Hey and also, how about the adults(parents) that let their kids underage hunt when they shouldn't be and they think that it is OK because they are on their family farm. This is just another form of poaching and any kid that shoots a buck or doe is most likely not called in for the reporting harvest. So that will throw the deer herd out of whack. I agree that the hunting age should be lower believe me I have a 10 year old son, but for me to follow the law I bring him down to PA on the mentor program. No matter what the law is the law and no matter how much you don't like it it still needs to be followed. Half of these kids are old enough to know that they shouldn't be hunting, but the parents allow them anyway. What is that teaching the kids? And then they wonder why the kids don't follow rules.

[Localqdm]

I have lived in OH and IN and most of my life  here in NY.  I wonder if the midwest produces more 'trophies' in large part due to the poaching here in NY.  Maybe because there is little to no penalty here, but also due to the more productive poaching habitat here.  I live and hunt in a heavy agriculture county--sort of like much of the midwest, with huge supplies of high protein (antler potential) food available.  One big difference though, the acreage of the individual fields. 

I watch the deer all summer and know what is around, so do all the locals.  In the midwest its different.  I hardly ever saw deer from the road.  The fields were overall much bigger.  It could be a mile from the road to the woods.  You can't effectively jack deer when you have no idea what is living back there.  If no one knows a 4 yr old 160" is around, it isn't going to get poached and may not get legally hunted hard, since no one knows.  Around here, if a big 2 yr old 120" is around, lots of people usually know, and the opportunity is usually there for poaching. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I wonder what math wiz came up with that formula.

I know....and why 1.65 an inch...why not $1 or $2...kind os like marketing...only $19.99.....not $20...that would be too much...lol

DOes anyone know how many ECO's we actaully have on teh payroll and how does it compare to other states?

I know it could make a few ticket happy and runamuk but how about an incentatve based pay system with a base pay and a % of convicted fines....real fines. I would just love to see more boots on the ground

[growalot]

Would be nice....increase trespassing fines as well...

I know I guy that had his wife and a friend of hers go get her bow lisence years ago....then went as far as to have her learn to shoot a light bow ...just in case....he takes the "practice" buck on hers and then brings it home and takes pics of her holding the deer..he saves his tag for the "trophy" buck...Ya know...the type of guy you'd like to take soccer practice on > ...but see turning him in wouldn't do any good...he attends all the banquets ....has a business that does "services" for local authorities...and  a certain shade of brown around his lips....when the friend refused him her tag ...well a fall out occurred...if ppl knew just how much this kind of thing really happens...Well they don't or won't believe it...and this guy is one of those ..Special disposition  ppl

I hope he's reading this.........and his buddies

[5.9cummins]

By my count in the Hunting regs there are 288 names listed of course that includes the Lieutenants (which i now realize i counted twice on a couple occasions because they cover more than one county).  Some counties like Suffolk have a lot officers and others only have a few. Of course that list does not incude forest rangers who do not have as much power as a ECO but they can still issue citations for game violations. Not every county has a Ranger but most southern tier counties do and there are a higher concentrations of them around the Catskills and the ADK park.

According to my wife's uncle who is a Ohio resident there is only about one officer per county in Ohio (88 counties in OH) and poaching is a huge problem out there.

I dont think its an issue of having more people to do enforcement, its just making the laws we have stick. Which to me means greater penalties because the ones we have obviously are not working as a deterrent.

I have had conversations with ECOs about this subject and if i recall correctly the penalty does not go back to DEC but into the general fund never to be seen again. So even if you had an increase in penalty action you DEC wouldn't get anything out of it.

That could be viewed either way. You don't have much incentive to get "trigger happy"  with the ticket book so to speak because there is no direct benefit from it. On the other hand in a time of fiscal instability it would be great if the guys breaking game laws were paying for enforcement.

[steve863]

I have lived in OH and IN and most of my life  here in NY.  I wonder if the midwest produces more 'trophies' in large part due to the poaching here in NY. 

If this is true, it surely doesn't say much about trophy hunting in my opinion.  And before anyone starts arguing that these guys are poachers and not hunters, please explain to me why they would be shooting "trophy" sized deer in the first place if they weren't somehow obsessed with "trophies"?  Call them what you want but I have always felt that hunting for horns and all the accolades that can come with it brings out the worst in people. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

That could be viewed either way. You don't have much incentive to get "trigger happy"  with the ticket book so to speak because there is no direct benefit from it. On the other hand in a time of fiscal instability it would be great if the guys breaking game laws were paying for enforcement.

Should be treated just like OSHA and the money goes back to their budget. I believe it goes to the general fund now...but why not change it....increase the fines and giv ethe general fund the same amount it gets now...the delta to the DEC and programs. I really have no sympathy for the violators. Don't get me wrong...if someone forgets to cut the month on the carcass tag I am not saying take their car....but for poachers...say good bye to the gun...the car you drove it home with ...and the house you hung it up in...enjoy the street. Of course we would end up paying for them then too...

[G-Man]

there are so many big bucks out west and mid west due to several reasons, first properties are larger here in ny 30acres is nice and 50 or more you are a land barron, small farm out there 100+acres average 400+, second less hunters there are a lot less hunters per acre there then here.. less pressure more deer can make it thru till next season. seasons are short 5 -10 days and are split up some gun seasons are closed during the rut , only 1 buck allowed in a lot of states.  Add to that a media that glorifies a big buck and poaching will result as normal people do not have 90 days to hunt.... The question is... if deer didn't have horns how many hunters would still hunt?

[growalot]

I know our entire family would...offset...the family next door with a hundred acres would not....no doe take allowed there

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The question is... if deer didn't have horns how many hunters would still hunt?

rabbits...ducks...squirrels...yotes...grouse...I haven't got one of them with a rack yet..LOL. And I try to fill every doe tag I am given. I would still hunt if not a single buck tag were issued.

I have said it before and stick to it....the books are the worst thing that ever happened to this sport. (Well second worst---TV shows are number 1)They were suppose to be to honor the deer from what I have been told....It really is about the 15 seconds of fame for the taker to a lot.

[G-Man]

yeah i agree the tv shows make hunting look very easy, my friend took his daughter(10 years old)to sit with him opening day and after 15 min she said dad your doing something wrong where's the big buck?? tough to keep kids interested if all they see is huge game on the tv and all dad gets are 6pters and some scrub buck... Glad they didn't have these shows when i was a kid my dad was my hero just coming home with a spike!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

I am almost 100% sure that fines collected by DEC do not go into the general fund, that is one of the ways DEC is funded. I kind of remember looking it up before. Ill do it again lol.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep, here it is. Fines actually go into the Conservation fund, and the DEC Division of Fish, Wildlife and Marine Resources is funded through that and a few other sources, one being the NYS general fund.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/about/634.html

[Localqdm]

there are so many big bucks out west and mid west due to several reasons, first properties are larger here in ny 30acres is nice and 50 or more you are a land barron, small farm out there 100+acres average 400+, second less hunters there are a lot less hunters per acre there then here.. less pressure more deer can make it thru till next season. seasons are short 5 -10 days and are split up some gun seasons are closed during the rut , only 1 buck allowed in a lot of states.  Add to that a media that glorifies a big buck and poaching will result as normal people do not have 90 days to hunt.... The question is... if deer didn't have horns how many hunters would still hunt?

Agree with you on all of these, and wish NY would do some of the things other states did.  Just think the poaching (and even the legal hunting) resulting from road sightings have a lot to do w/it. 

Its been argued that very few hunters in NY actually take more than one buck.  Its also been argued that most of our bucks are taken opening weekend, even though we have a very long season.  States w/split seasons actually help take more bucks (2 opening days).  I'm not real convinced about there being that many less hunters out there.  I know there are less, but its hard to get a tag in some of those states, and from my observation, most properties are hunted.  Keep in mind that when the stats show less hunters per sq mi. that most of those sq mi. are just a big field.  In some ways it may be easier to take a buck out there with more defined/smaller woodlots=easier to push or pattern deer.  Just my take on it.

[SteveB]

  The question is... if deer didn't have horns how many hunters would still hunt?

I would - especially cause there would most likely be unlimited tags.

[BornToHunt]

I know a local guy that shot 11 deer this season tagged every single one with whatever tag he could find from his wife and sons and this isn't the first year he has done it. How does that happen? I had a conversations with DEC officer that i have gotten friendly with that has told me that he doesn't go after locals only the city guys for fines. Most of the locals are killing that many deer and more and since they use the excuse that they need the meat to feed their families they get a pass. But me the guy that comes from Long Island so much as rubs someone the wrong way gets a fine. The locals need to realize that if it wasn't for the city folk coming upstate and spending money it would be no better than living in a third world country. Just because i am not from around there does't give you the right to treat me like S@#t.

[SteveB]

I don't believe in a 2 class enforcement system.

But rest assured I will do just fine without your "city money".