Too many hunting accidents this year

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Unfortunately, that is a question that we will never answer. We will never know how the addition of all these recent new legal rifle counties have impacted deer takes or safety numbers. None of that kind of info is being collected by the DEC. I guess they don't want to know.

Well the one up in sandy creek was not because of the "rifle change" because I believe NZ and there wasn't a "change". The lady south of Rochester was about point blank range. I don't know about others

[Grizz1219]

21 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

how many of the accidents were caused by a rifle that having a shotgun would have prevented??

Not sure.. but I know that rifles travel a lot further so it would reduce the possibility of those types of accidents.. And I didn't say all areas, I said expand the shotgun areas to fit the terrain, people density etc...   I think it is funny, guys think because they have a rifle they can shoot as long as they can see a deer... I've talked to guys that have taken 300 yd plus shots at deer... They've never shot over 100 yards in their lives, or even worked with their rifles to be proficient with it... but they take it because the rifle can do it.. Hence why I don't hunt but 1 morning during rifle season.. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

21 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

Not sure.. but I know that rifles travel a lot further so it would reduce the possibility of those types of accidents.. And I didn't say all areas, I said expand the shotgun areas to fit the terrain, people density etc...   I think it is funny, guys think because they have a rifle they can shoot as long as they can see a deer... I've talked to guys that have taken 300 yd plus shots at deer... They've never shot over 100 yards in their lives, or even worked with their rifles to be proficient with it... but they take it because the rifle can do it.. Hence why I don't hunt but 1 morning during rifle season.. 

I've seen guys do it with a shotgun too...lol

[Grizz1219]

9 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I've seen guys do it with a shotgun too...lol

How high would you have to aim to hit at 300 with a shotgun!?!?!?!!? LOL  12 feet??? LOL

[Buckmaster7600]

Not sure.. but I know that rifles travel a lot further so it would reduce the possibility of those types of accidents.. And I didn't say all areas, I said expand the shotgun areas to fit the terrain, people density etc...   I think it is funny, guys think because they have a rifle they can shoot as long as they can see a deer... I've talked to guys that have taken 300 yd plus shots at deer... They've never shot over 100 yards in their lives, or even worked with their rifles to be proficient with it... but they take it because the rifle can do it.. Hence why I don't hunt but 1 morning during rifle season.. 

I know I don't hear the 5 shot volleys I used to hear when it was shotgun only. In my opinion rifle makes it safer. Way less shooting and most everyone has a scope on them.

As I have said before the only way to make hunting NY safer is to have separate seasons for antlerless and antlered deer. That would eliminate the shooting at tails or movement, well at least for the hunters with a brain.


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[Grizz1219]

there in lies the problem... hunters with brains never have "accidents" like this.... just like driving, there are idiots out there... 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

How high would you have to aim to hit at 300 with a shotgun!?!?!?!!? LOL  12 feet??? LOL

I have a buddy in Maine that has a range in his sand pit with target stands at 25,50,100,200,300 and 350. for giggles when I went up shootign I took my shotgun up with 3" federal premium sabots  up to play with. I was actually surprised. in bags it did really well at 200. 300...not so much...lol in my 3-9 scope the point on the duplex was dead on at 200 a max magnification. 300 was a wish and a prayer.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, Grizz1219 said:

there in lies the problem... hunters with brains never have "accidents" like this.... just like driving, there are idiots out there... 

and we can't "regulate" that out.

[Grizz1219]

Yeah, they are just not designed for that range... 200 is a poke for them... and requires a lot from the gun and shooter...  Before I went to Africa I shot weekly.... got to where I was shooting pieces of skeet at 200 with a 30-06 and 338 Win Mag... so when I had to make a shot at 300 I knew I could do it... and did it on 2 animals.. both 1 shot kills... 

[Grizz1219]

7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

and we can't "regulate" that out.

Explains why I only hunt opening morning during rifle.. LOL

[chas0218]

2 hours ago, Grizz1219 said:

Not sure.. but I know that rifles travel a lot further so it would reduce the possibility of those types of accidents.. And I didn't say all areas, I said expand the shotgun areas to fit the terrain, people density etc...   I think it is funny, guys think because they have a rifle they can shoot as long as they can see a deer... I've talked to guys that have taken 300 yd plus shots at deer... They've never shot over 100 yards in their lives, or even worked with their rifles to be proficient with it... but they take it because the rifle can do it.. Hence why I don't hunt but 1 morning during rifle season.. 

Not sure I agree with that, my wife had a situation where I don't think in either case a rifle or shotgun would have been less deadly. Sitting in a tree stand with bullets of any size whistling through the tree tops above your head is enough for someone to get a little sense knocked into them. In my wife's case shooting any gun over a hill top is idiotic and you deserve to be tried for attempted murder or similar. Accidents happen but I'm sorry 100% of hunting accidents can be avoided if you properly handle a firearm. Negligence is not an argument.

[turkeyfeathers]

I've never understood the "shotgun only areas" allowing handguns in rifle chamberings . 

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

I know I don't hear the 5 shot volleys I used to hear when it was shotgun only.

 

I hear them every time I go hunting.

[Core]

36 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

I've never understood the "shotgun only areas" allowing handguns in rifle chamberings . 

Plus these shotgun areas allow muzzleloaders, which are getting increasingly accurate and far-reaching themselves.

I haven't read this entire thread, but I would be really surprised if the bulk of these hunting accidents were NOT in the range of a typical shotgun anyway. If it turns out a lot of guys are being hit at 250 yards because somebody with a rifle thinks they see a deer, that would be an argument to rethink rifle. I bet most are by the kind of person grizz mentions above who are taking 300 yard shots at deer when they don't have a range finder and have never shot past 100 and they're probably bad shots at 100 anyway. i.e. sloppy shooters who just don't take it seriously and don't concentrate sufficiently on what they are doing.

[Elmo]

I always wondered about those volleys.  I mean are people really shooting at running deer?  You would think near the end of the volley the deer was out of range anyway.  And are people really that bad of a shot?  When I hear one shot, I think dead deer.  When I hear a five shot volley, I think the deer got away or at the most, wounded.

[turkeyfeathers]

20 minutes ago, Elmo said:

I always wondered about those volleys.  I mean are people really shooting at running deer?  You would think near the end of the volley the deer was out of range anyway.  And are people really that bad of a shot?  When I hear one shot, I think dead deer.  When I hear a five shot volley, I think the deer got away or at the most, wounded.

I always bet on the deer when I hear a volley. I consider myself a good shot and won't take a running shot.

[growalot]

Mr B dropped a nice 8 point at camp many years ago  that was dang near or over 400yrds as I recall... that was with a smooth bore 16 gauge and NO SCOPE.. Sorry didn't see the bold on...anyways off hand. Culver knows estimating is a big part of his job... he's very good at his job...he estimated 1 or 2 foot above the shoulder on a steep down hill trajectory...that was when camp was all open ...he squeezed the trigger as we all stood there watching ...the buck dropped where it stood... He'd never do that again and  it surprised the Hades out of all of us... but yes it can be done...should it...No... he would have felt like crap if it ended in a wounded deer. But we were all very young then and age makes you wiser...

[growalot]

When my neighbor was nearly shot out of her tree stand and Officer Hill came out and actually investigate... He told us they managed to trace back a shot gun incident, don't ask me how, to find the slug in question on another case traveled 1/2 mile be for hitting...

[Buckmaster7600]

I always wondered about those volleys.  I mean are people really shooting at running deer?  You would think near the end of the volley the deer was out of range anyway.  And are people really that bad of a shot?  When I hear one shot, I think dead deer.  When I hear a five shot volley, I think the deer got away or at the most, wounded.

You would be surprised, I've been one to empty a clip and have had more than a couple hanging with 8-10 holes in them. That being said most every one was killed on the first shot but if they are moving I'm still shooting.


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[Elmo]

10 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

You would be surprised, I've been one to empty a clip and have had more than a couple hanging with 8-10 holes in them. That being said most every one was killed on the first shot but if they are moving I'm still shooting.


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That's a lot of damaged meat, no?

[Two Track]

When I hear 5 quick shots, I am thinking who is out here bird hunting or target shooting.

If they are deer hunting, they seriously need to practice more, especially if they are taking all those shots on one deer.  Then I picture a deer looking like Swiss cheese.

If they were shooting a large bear that is way too close and charging,  I would probably empty my gun into it.

Sometimes deer will drop within couple feet, sometimes they will go 30-40 yards and then drop dead.  It is not like the movies or TV showing a hunt where it is almost an instantaneous drop of the animal.  So I can see not being sure on the first and taking a follow-up shot.  Five, well better practice to shoot better and be more sniper-ish/precise in shooting.  Deer hunting is not suppose to be spray and pray.

Personally I would treat a slug-gun like a low/mid-range rifle, after-all it is still rifled and goes further than a smooth-bore shotgun.  They are known for 100-150 yards shots with a good scope and potential to go farther.

I can see tracing a sabot from a slug-gun using ballistics,  a rifled slug from smooth-bore, not sure if they can do that.

Maybe everyone's first gun should a a single-shot.  You learn to make the shot count very quickly.

[Buckmaster7600]

That's a lot of damaged meat, no?

Depends on where you're hitting them, a lot more wasted meat if you can't find them because your first shot wasn't as good as you thought.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

Depends on where you're hitting them, a lot more wasted meat if you can't find them because your first shot wasn't as good as you thought.


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You nailed it earlier. If it's still going I am still shooting. 

[growalot]

There's a lot of  what I call wing shooters around here...not quite as bad since rifle...but still a lot of 3 round vollies...I had one guy do that in the field facing our porch...I stood there talking to the neighbor on the phone when a deer ran from her place through the middle of that field ...the guy never stopped firing at that deer going 90 miles and hour even as it passed between us...our porch had bright orange hunting clothes hanging on hooks ,,Out side open deck... He must have really been moving for It didn't take me that long to hangup, find the Dodge keys, put on a jacket and shoes...I lost a bit of rubber in the drive that day...but he was gone by the time I got to the lease camp where he was parked...We had bullet holes in our basement windows when we moved in...Yep makes ya wonder..

[left field]

Putting aside that many people are simply idiots and you can't legislate against stupid, should there be a more stringent test for new hunters with target practice and perhaps an apprentice period for hunting?

I say this as someone who has just gone through the Hunter's Ed process and found it to be sorely lacking.

As it stands, you can get the voucher online and take the test in person with little to no knowledge imparted. A quick trip to a gunshop and maybe 20 minutes spent at a range, and you can hit a pie plate at 100 yards. The next day you're sitting in a tree as a legal and certified "hunter".