comparing a couple cva's to buy

[Rockspek]

cva wolf is 249, cva optima v2 is 399 at dicks  both stainless.  Both have scopes.  Optima has fluted barrel.  Any reason I should buy one over the other?  It's $150 difference.  Both in stock.  Want to buy before the weekend.  Thanks

[kpkot]

the v2 probably has the bergarra barrel. Its supposed to be more accurate.

[moog5050]

Someone is looking to knock down one of the two big boys.  lol  Good luck Rockspek.  Sight it in and have at it.  Can't help on which CVA though.

[Rockspek]

28 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Someone is looking to knock down one of the two big boys.  lol  Good luck Rockspek.  Sight it in and have at it.  Can't help on which CVA though.

You got me. 

[Core]

FWIW the scope is a konushot 7234 3-9X32 mm scope. People say they are decent for an entry level scope, but it is still an entry level scope of course.

This link http://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t7577-main-differences-between-cva-wolf-and-optima a few posts down the guy says the optima doesn't have the Bergera barrel.

Looks like main diff is the break-action is different and the optima has 2" longer barrel plus possible thumbhole stock.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Core

[reeltime]

cant help ya on either of those models, i have the cva magbolt 150, have had it for 15 years probably and have killed a number of deer with it.  it loves 100 gr. triple 7 with power belts. The longest shot I ever took with it on a deer was just over 200 yards, Ive done a lot of bench practice with it,  actually shooting with black powder can be a lot of fun and you can burn thru a lot of powder and bullets before you realize you have shot so much.

one thing to consider is what scope they have attached for the package, generally its a low end at best generic scope.  I would say buy the gun bare and put good optics on it.

 

one thing I will tell you is that cleaning is an absolute must! black powder and its alternatives is VERY corrosive. 

just a few newbie tips if your interested.

- clean the barrel well before firing it the first time, generally the barrels are coated with a heavy oil or grease from the factory.

- after cleaning and swabbing out the barrel and BEFORE loading the pellets put a primer on the nipple and fire the gun, generally this will burn out any residual cleaning solution.

- work on a load, bullet combo to find what recipe your gun likes.  most of my experience is that black powder guns perform better below max load,  my cva is rated up to 150 gr. of powder but at 150 it prints all over the paper, with 100 gr. it just about cuts holes. black powder burns at a much slower rate than conventional rifle, pistol, shotgun powder so generally the extra powder doesn't fully burn before the bullet leaves the barrel thus causing extra fowling.

- when loading the gun you want to make sure the bullet is seated on the powder but don't hammer it down or you run the risk of breaking the pellets.

- once you get a recipe worked up that your gun likes take your ramrod after loading insert the ramrod down the barrel just as you would while loading. with the ramrod setting on the bullet mark the ramrod flush with the barrel,  with a composite ramrod just nick the ramrod with a hacksaw blade and put a dab of white paint in the nick.  This will allow you to instantly check to see if there is a charge in the barrel. too many times people have double loaded a gun.

- more than with conventional guns if you do not shoot the gun to empty it nightly you remove the primer and to law enforcement the gun is considered unloaded.  if your going to leave the gun loaded between hunting trips I would strongly suggest leaving the gun in an unheated protected area, bringing it in and out of the house from warm to cold causes the metal to sweat, black powder and moisture do not mix and actually real black powder will draw moisture out of the air, the bp alternatives like triple 7 or pyrodex are not near as bad but if the pellets get wet or damp your going to have issues.

- you can use a small balloon or tape over the end of the barrel for keeping moisture out also.

- make sure to not skip cleaning the nipple and flash hole in your cleaning process.

 

if anyone else can add anything I may have missed please feel free to do so, people that don't have bp experience have a wealth of knowledge/info at their fingertips today unlike us old fogies had back in the day

 

 

[vcollaco]

I have an old CVA Optima Pro, similar probably to the wolf.  The V2 has the longer barrel, for more accuracy and distance.  I believe the breech is different.  Most importantly, hold each and see which one "fits" the best.  Mine was picky with powder and bullet combinations!  I found that the best combo was Triple 7 primers, with Triple 7 Pellets, and Powerbelt bullets.  Bore butter as the lubricant. No other combination got the same accuracy and consistency.  Double check that the finish is the same.  Some of the CVA's have rustproof coatings in and out, others do not. The V2 might have the rustproof coating in and out.  If so, definitely go with that one. 

[Jeremy K]

Go for the optima ,the bergarra barrel is worth it . Shoot 100g blackhorn 209 with 250 or 300 g Shockwave and a federal shot primer. That's a a safe bet load for the CVA.  I know 3 of us that shoot that combo with the 300g Shockwave,very consistant, accurate load. They say to use a blackhorn breech plug , I've heard of people shooting it without the blackhorn breech plug with no problem.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jeremy K

[Napping in the woods]

I have the optima v2 with the konus scope and thumbhole stock.  I LOVE IT!  the scope is good enough until you opt to upgrade, which I haven't done yet. The lighted crosshairs are kind of cool, but it's just a gimmick and not necessary.  It's not a leupold or nikon, but it's far from junk.

I shoot 100gr of pyrodex pellets with remington primers and either 300 or 338 grain powerbelt platinum aerotip bullets.  Hate the aerotip for expansion reasons, but at 75 yds, holes overlap.  bore butter is must inside the barrel, DO NOT wipe the external portion of the barrel with it though, it dulls the finish.  

I love the optima, thought many times of leaving my .270 at home this year and opting for the optima, just haven't done it because of the "what if" factor. 

If you have the $150, buy the optima....you'll only cry once (at the counter, paying for it).

Oh, TC sells a wire brush contraption for cleaning the breech plug threads, it's red.  buy it, too!

Either way you go, do everything REELTIME said.  I had some trial and error experiences with a flintlock, which I also love.  I had the flinter first and that experience taught me a lot...like how to avoid double loading! 

[turkeyfeathers]

Great info guys. I think Rock is already on his way to becoming a front stuffer owner. You may never tote the slug gun again. My ML is my go to. 

Buy a couple of tubes to preload and keep in pocket too. I've got primers in every pocket lol. Not sure what you call it but a loading assist tool.  It helps you to stuff the bullet the first few inches down barrel until you can ramrod it. 

And totally agree on marking ram rod somehow noting you've seeded everything solid. 

[Zem18]

1 hour ago, turkeyfeathers said:

Great info guys. I think Rock is already on his way to becoming a front stuffer owner. You may never tote the slug gun again. My ML is my go to. 

Buy a couple of tubes to preload and keep in pocket too. I've got primers in every pocket lol. Not sure what you call it but a loading assist tool.  It helps you to stuff the bullet the first few inches down barrel until you can ramrod it. 

And totally agree on marking ram rod somehow noting you've seeded everything solid. 

It's called a ball starter and yes very handy

[Jeremy K]

These really make things simple.

[Rockspek]

btw I'm following along just not commenting thanks for your help

[Core]

4 hours ago, reeltime said:

 if your going to leave the gun loaded between hunting trips I would strongly suggest leaving the gun in an unheated protected area, bringing it in and out of the house from warm to cold causes the metal to sweat, black powder and moisture do not mix and actually real black powder will draw moisture out of the air, the bp alternatives like triple 7 or pyrodex are not near as bad but if the pellets get wet or damp your going to have issues.

 

This is great advice. I wonder how many people leave loaded during hunting season and whether the pellets/powder sitting there in the bore ever cause issues, but this is exactly why I won't be bringing in my mz--will leave in the garage.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Core

[stoneam2006]

I have the wolf ss snow camo stock and love it konus 3x9 as said and same load suggested 100 grain 777 300 grain shockwaves. If the other barrel is really more accurate (I assume it is) you should be shooting clovers in no time. I shoot a really good group (5 in or so) to 200 with package set up and that's off the back of my quad. I carry it all season

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[Adkhunter1590]

SS wolf here. Came with the konus scope but I didn't even mount it on there. Went with a Vortex 4-12x44 instead. My wolf is shooting awesome and I'm highly impressed with it. Seems to like 95-100g of Blackhorn 209 powder and 250g Shockwaves or Hornady SST's in 250g with Remington 209 primers.

I went with the wolf over optima for the shorter barrel. I'm primarily a bow hunter but towards the late season I like to walk around with a gun. The wolf is a great carrying gun, especially in the thick stuff. I've never read or heard of anyone saying the 2 inch shorter barrel made them feel it wasn't accurate out to 200-250 even. I haven't shot 200 yet with mine but I have no doubts it will do it no problem.

Both the wolf and optima have Bergara barrels. The optima is branded as a Bergara while the wolf is not. I guess the Bergara branded barrels go through one final polishing and fine tuning process while the wolf barrels don't. All made in the same factory I guess. From the research I did, it looked like there isn't a huge difference between the two as far as quality, more so in appearance since the optima barrels get fluted as well. I felt it was a better investment to get better optics than pay for a fluted branded barrel that got a extra shine job. We are talking muzzleloader barrels here, not a rifle that your looking to shoot 1200 yards with.

Breech plugs are the same in both guns. If you plan to shoot blackhorn powder, I suggest ordering the specific breech plug they make for it. Will get you a more consistent burn. I did shoot mine with the regular breech plug and it did work fine, but I've read a lot about guys who couldn't get it to shoot at all.

Leave it loaded in the garage like others have said. I usually don't like to leave it loaded more than 2 weeks. If it's going to be any longer than that I will just unload it. Blackhorn powder will hold longer than pellets as it doesn't absorb moisture like pellets do. But you should always cover the barrel with a ballon or some tape.

[vizslas]

really no need for a fluted barrel  your not going to build up the heat  its a monet grab dont buy it

[The_Real_TCIII]

I'm embarrassed to say I've left mine loaded and entire year but with the new pellets it isn't a concern, it fired just fine


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[stoneam2006]

SS wolf here. Came with the konus scope but I didn't even mount it on there. Went with a Vortex 4-12x44 instead. My wolf is shooting awesome and I'm highly impressed with it. Seems to like 95-100g of Blackhorn 209 powder and 250g Shockwaves or Hornady SST's in 250g with Remington 209 primers.

I went with the wolf over optima for the shorter barrel. I'm primarily a bow hunter but towards the late season I like to walk around with a gun. The wolf is a great carrying gun, especially in the thick stuff. I've never read or heard of anyone saying the 2 inch shorter barrel made them feel it wasn't accurate out to 200-250 even. I haven't shot 200 yet with mine but I have no doubts it will do it no problem.

Both the wolf and optima have Bergara barrels. The optima is branded as a Bergara while the wolf is not. I guess the Bergara branded barrels go through one final polishing and fine tuning process while the wolf barrels don't. All made in the same factory I guess. From the research I did, it looked like there isn't a huge difference between the two as far as quality, more so in appearance since the optima barrels get fluted as well. I felt it was a better investment to get better optics than pay for a fluted branded barrel that got a extra shine job. We are talking muzzleloader barrels here, not a rifle that your looking to shoot 1200 yards with.

Breech plugs are the same in both guns. If you plan to shoot blackhorn powder, I suggest ordering the specific breech plug they make for it. Will get you a more consistent burn. I did shoot mine with the regular breech plug and it did work fine, but I've read a lot about guys who couldn't get it to shoot at all.

Leave it loaded in the garage like others have said. I usually don't like to leave it loaded more than 2 weeks. If it's going to be any longer than that I will just unload it. Blackhorn powder will hold longer than pellets as it doesn't absorb moisture like pellets do. But you should always cover the barrel with a ballon or some tape.

Man good post...someone did their research.

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[Adkhunter1590]

Man good post...someone did their research.

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I sure did. You can learn just about anything on google. I read really fast so I can rip through tons of websites and forums and find all the bits and pieces of info in no time. Cross reference with multiple sources to confirm what's true and what's not. I spent a couple weeks reading up on CVAs before I went with the wolf. There wasn't anything to be found that convinced me the optima was worth the extra money. For the range limitations imposed on muzzleloaders by design, the wolf is just as accurate as the rest of them for a lower cost. I took that $150 I saved and put it towards a higher quality scope to shore up and doubts. Any gun is only as good as the scope you put on it in my opinion.

And if anyone was wondering when they started using Bergara barrels...from what I could find, it happened after the few lawsuits that CVA got when their barrels were blowing up some years back. That's where the bad opinions of CVA stem from all over the internet. But once they hooked up with Bergara their barrels are now all covered under lifetime warranty on all models and I have yet to find anyone who has blown up a new generation of CVA. This was also the same time CVA stopped making a "magnum" version of the wolf. You used to be able to buy a regular wolf only capable of 100g of powder and the mag version that could shoot 150g. Now all CVA muzzys are "magnum" load capable.

[Rockspek]

I'm really liking everyones opinions.  Basically I'm finding that both guns will do the same thing and go buy either one I like the looks of.  I guess my next question is, when do I find the time to practice before Monday?  Looks like I won't have any down time mid day to brew any beer.

[Adkhunter1590]

Plenty of time this winter to brew beer! Go get one of those muzzys and start burnin up some powder! I had my wolf sighted in with around 8 shots if I remember correctly.

[Buckmaster7600]

I hate dicks and haven't stepped into one in a few years until the day before yesterday when my wife called me and told me that dicks had a stainless and black wolf with scope with a price of 179$ I told her I would be there in half an hr and see if they would hold it. I got down there told them I wanted it got to the register and it came up as 249$ I argued they folded so I have a stainless wolf now for my daughter. Sighted it in yesterday midday shot great with the same load I use for everything blackhorn harvester sabot with Barnes XPB. I almost like this wolf better than my accura MR. It's not as light but I don't like the tang behind the trigger on the accura. I now have 4 konus scopes in bags above the cabinet. This wolf is wearing a VX-2 2-7x


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[The_Real_TCIII]

Doesn't the Optima offer other barrels, like the TC Encore?


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[turkeyfeathers]

I'll admit to leaving my ML loaded and then realizing it the next season. Not a happy moment   Lots of elbow grease , sweat and swearing and had it back to mirror finish in the barrel. Them pellets are corrosive.  Won't make that mistake again.