Advice for equipment needed to make food plots

[Zag]

48 minutes ago, goosifer said:

zag, I'm sorry I missed your question. I think I want to do 4 to 6 1/2-acre plots of clover and brassicas. i am more interested in stuff that will attract deer late in the season. there is a big field behind me that alternates corn and soybeans (this year was corn, so next year should be soybeans). I don't think it will help me to do the same, unless maybe I do corn when they do soybeans, and vice versa. I have a lot of research to do. I also want to do some trees, but those wont bear fruit for many years.

Ok, don't over think or over spend on this. That blend of seed just needs to be broadcasted on a good seed bed. You can really just weed kill the area wait a week or two and spread the seed before a rain.

You don't need big tractors or expensive discs. I did this on a acre piece in my back yard. It was overgrown field. Full of goldenrod, dogwood and wild grape. I mowed it down with my garden tractor, weed killed and york take and I was in business.

[goosifer]

OK. I plan on brush hogging the heck out of the area, and then taking a look at what it looks like. not sure what the root systems for the stuff currently growing looks like. thanks.

[wolc123]

 

On 12/28/2016 at 8:04 AM, growalot said:

Wolc123...Do me a favor and pull up and post that NYS DEC regulation that states you can trap out of season  and bury raccoon for food plots "crops"..you do know deer food plots aren't considered "agricultural" crops don't you? If they were, how many guys do you think would try to get nuisance permits to shoot deer all summer off their food plots..BTW I believe a big tado was in the paper a couple of years ago where a guy did that ,the DEC issued them and if I recall dung hit the fan over it.  Agricultural crops are those that produce an income or contribute towards an income as far as feeding livestock. Deer in NYS aren't considered free roaming livestock.

So I may have missed this regulation or perhaps they changed it..post it for me and I will check it out...Thanks in advance.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/9358.htm

This link shows that raccoons can be killed by homeowners if they are causing damage.  Most that I have killed were damaging sweetcorn that I grow to feed my family.   I have also trapped some that were damaging fieldcorn that I planted as foodplots for deer.   Damage is damage, and does not need to be agricultural.   Trapping and eliminating raccoons is actually good for them because, with the collapse of the fur market, not many trappers go for them anymore.  That leads to overpopulation and disease like distemper and rabies.    

The last time you questioned me on this,  I located another link where there was a table that showed that raccoons killed by homeowners should be burried or burned, if taken before trapping season opens.  I have not always done that in the past but will be sure to do so in the future.  I thank you for making me aware of that technicality.   It is no big deal for me to dig a hole with the bucket of my tractor and throw them in as I get them in the early summer.   After trapping season opens, I will continue to just toss them out in the field for the buzzards.   I am going to order a dozen or so more of those dog-proof traps.  Them things work very slick compared to the box traps I usually use.  

   

Edited January 7, 2017 by wolc123

[sailinghudson25]

Zag is right.   Any implement will improve the area.  Slashed up shrub and small trees will clog fine implements.

Even bag dragging a bucket works.

The smaller and cozier they feel with cover, the more they'll like it.

 

My neighbor just mowed the heck out of some fallow fields, totally ruined the deer pattern this season.  Mow in thirds annually.  

Keep in mind access. Mow so you can enter your hunting spot secrectively, but can squeeze a shot in before heading to the stand if they're already there. 

 

Variety is the spice in life.

 

Instead of oaks and fruit trees, plant the right scrubs.  I plant scrubs from the nysdec nursery in saratoga.  I usee their deer mixed scrubs.

Look up prefers winter fobs forage in the nysdec website. 

It helps you on Adirondack hunts too if you ever go.

 

Deer during muzzleloader week eat these little hard red berries growing on dead apple trees by me.  

Make a curvy walking course.  It turn hunting into a stalk hunting version of golf.  I got a course I walk and hunt on my lease left by logging trucks.

Mow the center a few times a year, mow 2 or 3 passes on the left one year once, then on the right next year.

 

Brassica and clovers,  I think a spring harrow is great.  S tine, c tine, old drag behind spring harrows, or those spring trip claw cultivators.  Use a chain link fence or a series of 4 inch logs chained behind each other to drag the seed in.

 

 

 

[growalot]

You and I read and interpret things differently...Where you see unlicensed  home owners can destroy raccoons damaging property... I read that in combination with:

Quote

The law allows unlicensed homeowners and farmers to destroy raccoons that damage property. However, property owners should try eliminating food and shelter before killing the animal.

I then go on to read:

Quote

Surround gardens with an electric fence made up of two wires attached to an insulated post, one wire four inches and the other eight inches above the ground. Install the fence before vegetables ripen.

 

[wolc123]

As you have stated, the law is clear and I have the right to kill the raccoons.   They are cute and cuddly when they are little.  Have you ever seen one out in daylight when they were suffering from distemper or rabies?  They are not too cute then.   That is how they often end up if they are not controlled.   The collapse in fur prices has resulted in way too many raccoons around.   Raccoons are particularly harmful to corn, both the sweet and the field variety.   They climb the stalks and knock it down before it is ripe.  It is a lot easier and more economical to remove the raccoons than it is to install an electric fence, but if that is your wish, have at it.

45 minutes ago, growalot said:

You and I read and interpret things differently...Where you see unlicensed  home owners can destroy raccoons damaging property... I read that in combination with:

I then go on to read:

 

    

[growalot]

Goosifer I have a few pics on here of trail plots tucked in heavy brush with small plots at the end of each trail , the neighbor just mows hers and that is where all the deer were this year...they bed in the thick golden rod that's scattered with pines and some trees. Deer feed on the clovers as they walk the trails in and out of cover Crossing trails and crossing mowed trails scent checking..Clover grows without planting here ...mow and it grows...they also opened up all the wild apple saplings and have great apples now....It's a tad cold but I'll try to take some pics of there place from my stand to give you and idea...I have a stand on the line to beat the west/north  winds across my place...only problem is I cant use it much...There deer ALWAYS wind me on their place..lol It's also only really good for rifle through my woods to an opening on one of my plots...Great stand to sit in and read a book on a summers day though...very pretty

As far as water goes if a dug hole will hold water(clay) yes...I have watering tubs at all plots...I pick up old bath tubs and use them I use animal watering tanks...and even plastic pond liners...Now you may think..Eeeww thats junk in the woods...well you can't notice them done right...buried, left on top of ground camo painted and surrounded with ,just enough brush...the deer like standing water......tubs on blocks allow for easy clean outs..also left up on blocks buried...I raise hundreds of much needed frogs every year in one buried tub..  yes you can control mosquito larva safely...either with solar fountains or small amount of dunk...Rains easily replenish the water...clean 2x's a year... my frog tub cleans it's self, so I do it in spring before the egg laying  to remove leaf debris and any frogs that tried wintering in the tub instead of under it....usually 1-3

[growalot]

LOL You actually haven't heard me speak /read of raccoons in the past...You are talking down to the wrong person concerning raccoons and their dangers...I have had two rabies scares concerning them and have killed raccoons actually attacking me , with the help of my dogs. Two that climbed into a brush blind with me as I turkey hunted one dark spring morning...I have no love for them what so ever...but as I said, I interpret the laws differently. So unless actually confronted, will not trap nor shoot them out of season. Food plots are not agricultural as far as being an economical necessity. When we plant as hobbyists /hunters we shouldn't expect to be able to take the animals we are drawing in out of season because they are a nuisance eating WHAT WE PLANTED TO DRAW THEM IN...lol.... Try getting a deer nuisance permit for the deer eating your food plot and see what the DEC would think of that.

I could call Avon and send this post to them and see what they think...but we both know if they said your interpretation is playing loose and fast with that rule ...it wouldn't change your conduct. So why bother...  rhetorical question. 

[goosifer]

3 hours ago, sailinghudson25 said:

. . . .

Instead of oaks and fruit trees, plant the right scrubs.  I plant scrubs from the nysdec nursery in saratoga.  I use their deer mixed scrubs.

thanks, sailinghudson25. The DEC just came out with the catalog for 2017: DEC Spring seedling sale Long ride to Saratoga from Buffalo

[goosifer]

2 hours ago, growalot said:

Goosifer I have a few pics on here of trail plots tucked in heavy brush with small plots at the end of each trail , the neighbor just mows hers and that is where all the deer were this year...they bed in the thick golden rod that's scattered with pines and some trees. Deer feed on the clovers as they walk the trails in and out of cover Crossing trails and crossing mowed trails scent checking..Clover grows without planting here ...mow and it grows...they also opened up all the wild apple saplings and have great apples now....It's a tad cold but I'll try to take some pics of there place from my stand to give you and idea...

Looking forward to the pics when the weather allows. Thanks, grow.

[wolc123]

 

On 12/10/2016 at 8:15 PM, growalot said:

You then go on to recommend ways to illegally trap raccoons out of season...look up strapping regulations

 

2 hours ago, growalot said:

LOL You actually haven't heard me speak /read of raccoons in the past...You are talking down to the wrong person concerning raccoons and their dangers...I have had two rabies scares concerning them and have killed raccoons actually attacking me , with the help of my dogs. Two that climbed into a brush blind with me as I turkey hunted one dark spring morning...I have no love for them what so ever...but as I said, I interpret the laws differently. So unless actually confronted, will not trap nor shoot them out of season. Food plots are not agricultural as far as being an economical necessity. When we plant as hobbyists /hunters we shouldn't expect to be able to take the animals we are drawing in out of season because they are a nuisance eating WHAT WE PLANTED TO DRAW THEM IN...lol.... Try getting a deer nuisance permit for the deer eating your food plot and see what the DEC would think of that.

I could call Avon and send this post to them and see what they think...but we both know if they said your interpretation is playing loose and fast with that rule ...it wouldn't change your conduct. So why bother...  rhetorical question. 

 

 

12/10/16 was the first time you came down on me for "illegally" trapping raccoons.  It might be a good idea for you to do a little more research prior to going on the offensive.   None of us are perfect and I forgive you for your mistakes.   

[Zag]

20 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 

 

 

 

12/10/16 was the first time you came down on me for "illegally" trapping raccoons.  It might be a good idea for you to do a little more research prior to going on the offensive.   None of us are perfect and I forgive you for your mistakes.   

Who f-ing care, the guy wants to know about equip, not your guys bs.

[growalot]

I went out and took some pics...I'll get them up  when I'm on the computer so you can get an idea,of what I was saying ...Also took some pics of the wood lot work I'm doing. Cold but not bad out there..no wind .

Edited January 7, 2017 by growalot

[growalot]

Here they are, Now this is part of 100 acres..the other 50 that holds the deer as well. Starts on a deep slope that this field drops down to facing east...this is facing west/north. then goes into a mature mixed forest and a scrub field they also mow paths through. The bottom is wet not swamp and is the perfect weather break from near all winds the back side of that 50 backs up to a neighbors red pine plantation and is heavily hunted on all sides by the surrounding neighbors and camps...That is why they hang in this  50 acre area. So there a little back ground...The Golden rod reaches well over 5ft in some areas during the summer. They have no food plots but do have horse pasture on the East facing slope,the goes the whole length of property...you can just see the top of it in the first picture.

[goosifer]

Thanks, grow. I guess I have a mini version of this situation. There is a bit of a bowl to the center of the larger field, but the slope of the hill at the southern end faces north. I was originally thinking of 4-6 medium-sized rectangular plots seperated by the brush, but if I am understanding you correctly, it would be better to have daisy-chained squiggle plots? That would certainly make the calculations for lime and seed more challenging. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by goosifer
typo

[stubborn1VT]

I bet you would have success by mowing trails and frost seeding.  Deer will use any trail that lets them travel more easily.  A neighbor mowed trails to access the back of his property and put trail cameras on them.  I couldn't believe the summer and early fall pictures he got.  Every buck on the property was using them to travel and graze.  Over time you could expand them into a connected plot system.  The nice thing would be to lay out your trails, as others have suggested, to take advantage of predominate wind directions.  Good luck.  I find these types of projects exciting.  Sometimes, less is more.

[dbHunterNY]

it looks like a brush hog will work more than fine.  first pass a little higher and second drop it.  then as things green up do multiple sprayings with a cheaper tank sprayer ratchetted down in the back of the UTV.  drag it with a set of C tine drags or cultivators to go deeper and that should open things up to bare dirt.  you just need a shallow seed bed and seed to soil contact.  seems to me like it should be harder figuring out where to put them and how to shape them.  in some spots it seems like you're going to need something planted that can take a little flooding.

[goosifer]

29 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

it looks like a brush hog will work more than fine.  first pass a little higher and second drop it.  then as things green up do multiple sprayings with a cheaper tank sprayer ratchetted down in the back of the UTV.  drag it with a set of C tine drags or cultivators to go deeper and that should open things up to bare dirt.  you just need a shallow seed bed and seed to soil contact.  seems to me like it should be harder figuring out where to put them and how to shape them.  in some spots it seems like you're going to need something planted that can take a little flooding.

Thanks, DBH. too bad my skidsteer bucket doesn't have any teeth. Dragging that may have been enough. I agree with you on where to put them/how to shape them. Never really noticed any flooding, but haven't spent much time on the property outside of hunting season. 

With the plant material that gets cut up in the brush hog passes, were you envisioning that I would leave them in place to compost, or scrape them up and push them aside with the skidsteer bucket?

[dbHunterNY]

8 minutes ago, goosifer said:

Thanks, DBH. too bad my skidsteer bucket doesn't have any teeth. Dragging that may have been enough. I agree with you on where to put them/how to shape them. Never really noticed any flooding, but haven't spent much time on the property outside of hunting season. 

With the plant material that gets cut up in the brush hog passes, were you envisioning that I would leave them in place to compost, or scrape them up and push them aside with the skidsteer bucket?

as it dries up and with dragging bigger stuff will get hung up in an actual set of drags and other stuff will break down.  some out it you'll have to rake out of the there somehow.  whether it be renting something, like a york rake.   you might be able to have your volunteer FD train by doing a controlled burn to burn it off but i doubt it.  i don't here much about it and feel like here in NY it's taboo to burn stuff off unless it's a preserve or state controlled land.  plowing a field is out dated. all you're doing is pulling up more rocks and weed seed to deal with.  you just need to aerate the soil and let the seed make contact.  from the looks of it deer travel all over.  you're going to want to put them in there somewhere so that you can access without getting busted by every deer in there.  wet spots and leaving some desirable bigger stuff and terrain will dictate shape a bit.

[goosifer]

Thanks, dbH. Can't say the light bulb has fully gone off for me yet, but with every post the wattage goes up just a bit. Your comment about plowing actually helped a lot to clear things up for me.

[tuckersdaddy]

With the pics you show....a weed eater with a brush blade to cut paths will do more to improve your hunting than clear cut and plots. those pics show awsome cover... Once pressure hit you are more apt to find deer in cover during the day, feeding during non huntimg hours . You can round up the pathes and plant clover or barassicas in the giving the deer room service.

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[LET EM GROW]

Thanks, DBH. too bad my skidsteer bucket doesn't have any teeth. Dragging that may have been enough. I agree with you on where to put them/how to shape them. Never really noticed any flooding, but haven't spent much time on the property outside of hunting season. 
With the plant material that gets cut up in the brush hog passes, were you envisioning that I would leave them in place to compost, or scrape them up and push them aside with the skidsteer bucket?

I can't remember where but you can buy an attachment for your bucket that is 2 sets of teeth, one straight forward other facing down. For pushing pulling and dragging. It was called something rake lol. It's like a bracket that slips over the blade of the bucket then just gets ratcheted around the bucket. I made a knockoff for my tractor. Works well. Google it. Should be easy to find. Think it was like 350$

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[goosifer]

I found a toothbar here I will try to find the  toothbar/rake style attachment described by LET EM GROW above.

[LET EM GROW]

It's called the Rachet Rake

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[goosifer]

18 minutes ago, LET EM GROW said:

It's called the Rachet Rake

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 That is brilliant! I watched the video. link to website It appears to do everything I need. Quite affordable, too. With this, the only attachment I would need to rent is the brush mower.

The only question now is can I do it (no experience running a skid steer) and how long will it take to clear and prep 3-1/2 acres.

Thanks for the lead on this, LET EM GROW.