Crossbow/gun and whitetail population

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Crossbows have been legal in Ohio since 1976 nothing new there...

[nodeerhere]

Nothing new except on deer

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Is that a 10 or 9 point ?

Lots of deductions on that rack Im not sure that would score 125 ..

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bowshotmuzzleloader

[nodeerhere]

32 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Well there is some proof of the blind squirrel concept. 

Yep hahaha...

[nodeerhere]

9 point 

[growalot]

As I said more than once..I really don't care...I do know what has happened here...Right now having areas where nearly every single gun hunter is also a bow hunter isn't common...but it is what it is, and I'm seeing what I'm seeing...Listening to what locals are saying and seeing. When I have the farmers commenting on it, the delivery people mentioning it, and everyone saying they are seeing a distinct change in deer habits to the point a few have mentioned evolution and genetic.   Now I don't think that, but it shows the depth of concerns over what they are seeing in deer movement. You saw movement in day time the last two weeks and first of gun...consider what will happen when they have Oct1 through gun of increased movement. I know what will happen. I am seeing it, I have mentioned it..in fact I started mentioning a a few years ago with pics of doe walking around looking up into trees. A few years ago when I started saying doe are harder to kill than buck. When talking of the deer bedding next to the kennel....out in the garden I have to walk past...spooking them along the side of the road walking down hill...walking past them with in feet  to have them then jump and run. Watching them literally crawling through heavy rose brush when there is easy open walking. Bedding under stands and under blinds..That's not patterning ME...that is a change in behavior...I have 40(with the one delivered today) stands and 13 ground blinds...I switch up every day I hunt. I enjoy hunting with the cross bow...took my little buck with it...May not have missed the only shot I had on a doe had I had the faster crossbow...So I have no problems here. I will at camp...The poaching will be bad there...The deer movements will change...but That's for the guys to worry about. Also like it or not the guys you heard shooting before and after hours..ones nearly everyone here got ticked off about, well they will be joining the bow guys that do the same...but with better equipment for it and for an extended time period. That is the nature of humans, given that inch,they will inevitably yank it for more.

[dbHunterNY]

5 hours ago, ncountry said:

I think that would be awesome.. I don't shoot a recurve but I would learn!

...and during that process you'd feel like a 1 legged man in an a** kicking contest.  30 yards might as well be a mile. lol  it's fun though.  any encounter within 20 yards suddenly gets your ticker pumping with liquid anticipation!

[wooly]

53 minutes ago, growalot said:

That is the nature of humans, given that inch,they will inevitably yank it for more.

I can relate!

"Like"..."Like"...."Like"....."Like".... "Like".... "Like"......

 

[growalot]

The fact you beat pygmy too the draw on that astounds me.

Now I loaded the above line with enough for you to make a couple of new replies....lol

Edited December 30, 2016 by growalot

[Lawdwaz]

Funny thing; this fall while engaging in small talk with people who must have felt comfortable chatting with me, two guys (not related, don't hunt together, different counties etc.) admitted to me that they used the xbow all of archery season.  Yea, from October 1st right through till the start of gun season.  They said how in the heck is anybody going to tell as long as we have a  vertical bow in camp and keep the xbow out of sight unless being toted into the tree stand?  He man, do what ya gotta do. 

As the years go by, more and more guys (maybe gals too) will be doing the same thing.  Wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

Idiots..............

[growalot]

That does not surprise me one bit

[Buckstopshere]

1 hour ago, Lawdwaz said:

Funny thing; this fall while engaging in small talk with people who must have felt comfortable chatting with me, two guys (not related, don't hunt together, different counties etc.) admitted to me that they used the xbow all of archery season.  Yea, from October 1st right through till the start of gun season.  They said how in the heck is anybody going to tell as long as we have a  vertical bow in camp and keep the xbow out of sight unless being toted into the tree stand?  He man, do what ya gotta do. 

As the years go by, more and more guys (maybe gals too) will be doing the same thing.  Wouldn't surprise me a bit. 

Idiots..............

But I have to admit, in the recent years, I have thought about getting a crossbow. Started with the long bow and recurve in the 1970s and 80's compound in the 90's...85% let off in the new century. The bow, in whatever shape and form has allowed me to successfully hunt deer during archery season. And I am very thankful for that. Isn't adapting to change one of the fundamental hunting strategies? I blew out my shoulder and now learned to shoot lefty.  When I can't draw a bow any longer, I hope I can still tote an x-bow up into the stand to still be out there in that magical time of the rut...hunting.

I will always remember what Roger Rothhaar, one of the pioneers of modern bowhunting  told me once, "Crossbows killed bow hunting hunting in Ohio." To paraphrase.

[Lawdwaz]

1 hour ago, Buckstopshere said:

But I have to admit, in the recent years, I have thought about getting a crossbow. Started with the long bow and recurve in the 1970s and 80's compound in the 90's...85% let off in the new century. The bow, in whatever shape and form has allowed me to successfully hunt deer during archery season. And I am very thankful for that. Isn't adapting to change one of the fundamental hunting strategies? I blew out my shoulder and now learned to shoot lefty.  When I can't draw a bow any longer, I hope I can still tote an x-bow up into the stand to still be out there in that magical time of the rut...hunting.

I will always remember what Roger Rothhaar, one of the pioneers of modern bowhunting  told me once, "Crossbows killed bow hunting hunting in Ohio." To paraphrase.

Not sure why you quoted me in this post.......my point is that the xbow is just an easier way to break the law because it's legal later in the season and guys just figure, screw it I'll use it all season.  The bad guys got a taste of the ease of aiming and killing and want to use it all season.

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

So the biggest complaint that seems to stand out is poaching is going to be the biggest problem with full inclusion and the ease of killing deer with the crossbow and that together is going to destroy bow hunting in NY what else am missing.. Ohio has the same harvest take over a long period of time seemingly taking more deer in the archery season than gun season... 

[Buckstopshere]

19 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

So the biggest complaint that seems to stand out is poaching is going to be the biggest problem with full inclusion and the ease of killing deer with the crossbow and that together is going to destroy bow hunting in NY what else am missing.. Ohio has the same harvest take over a long period of time seemingly taking more deer in the archery season than gun season... 

I have listened to the crossbow debate for many years. In Ohio, the chance of killing a huge buck has dropped since the advent of the crossbow. Not so much to do with jacking, but many younger bucks will not make it to the next level because the crossbow is more efficient than the long bow, recurve or compound. More bucks are taken out of the mix. Same with rifles here in the Southern Tier. Fewer bucks make it to the next age class because the gun gives the hunter a greater advantage. I don't have a moral objection to crossbows, just that they give the hunter a better advantage than the traditional bows. So not as many bucks will move to the next level because they won't make it through the season. And I like to hunt older bucks.

[Lawdwaz]

17 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

So the biggest complaint that seems to stand out is poaching is going to be the biggest problem with full inclusion and the ease of killing deer with the crossbow and that together is going to destroy bow hunting in NY what else am missing..

Naaa....they'll destroy ALL hunting in NYS and the entire country, maybe the world.

[stubborn1VT]

Not just crossbows alone, COYOTES WITH CROSSBOWS!

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

11 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Naaa....they'll destroy ALL hunting in NYS and the entire country, maybe the world.

So Ohio thats had this in effect for 40 years and was / is a destination for hunters from out of staye because of the deer population and chance if a good buck..

Has what to blame for a track record the crossbow it seems just the opposite of what everyone is complaining about except Ohio is now experiencing a swarm of out of state hunters ..

Just making observations not opinions or judgements  

[Lawdwaz]

29 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

So Ohio thats had this in effect for 40 years and was / is a destination for hunters from out of staye because of the deer population and chance if a good buck..

Has what to blame for a track record the crossbow it seems just the opposite of what everyone is complaining about except Ohio is now experiencing a swarm of out of state hunters ..

Just making observations not opinions or judgements  

Sometimes

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

So the biggest complaint that seems to stand out is poaching is going to be the biggest problem with full inclusion and the ease of killing deer with the crossbow and that together is going to destroy bow hunting in NY what else am missing.. Ohio has the same harvest take over a long period of time seemingly taking more deer in the archery season than gun season... 

The crossbow in Ohio has made a much larger change to deer hunting in that state than most realize. Reading an article about deer harvests and the implements involved is a real eye-opener. https://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_FINAL.pdf

The season lengths have made for an interesting results. The largest deer take in that state now belongs to the crossbow hunters. The combined archery season harvest has overtaken the gun harvest. The gunners have been reduced significantly in season length and also their chances of harvesting deer.

Here's the 2014-2015 results:

Bow season-

        47,538 taken with the crossbow

        34112 taken with the vertical bow

Gun season-

        65,484 taken with the gun

You all might be interested in reading that article. There are a lot of surprising differences between the way Ohio does things and we do, in a lot of significant ways. Another interesting thing that I found in other articles is is that Ohio is going through a significant harvest hit that is causing an awful lot of whining. Not all is going well in the Ohio deer hunting paradise that everyone likes to point to as a model for NYS to use.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Doc

[Lawdwaz]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

The crossbow in Ohio has made a much larger change to deer hunting in that state than most realize. Reading an article about deer harvests and the implements involved is a real eye-opener. https://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_FINAL.pdf

The season lengths have made for an interesting results. The largest deer take in that state now belongs to the crossbow hunters. The combined archery season harvest has overtaken the gun harvest. The gunners have been reduced significantly in season length and also their chances of harvesting deer.

Here's the 2014-2015 results:

Bow season-

        47,538 taken with the crossbow

        34112 taken with the vertical bow

Gun season-

        65,484 taken with the gun

You all might be interested in reading that article. There are a lot of surprising differences between the way Ohio does things and we do, in a lot of significant ways. Another interesting thing that I found in other articles is is that Ohio is going through a significant harvest hit that is causing an awful lot of whining. Not all is going well in the Ohio deer hunting paradise that everyone likes to point to as a model for NYS to use.

Baiting too.........

[phade]

The crossbow in Ohio has made a much larger change to deer hunting in that state than most realize. Reading an article about deer harvests and the implements involved is a real eye-opener. https://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/Portals/wildlife/pdfs/publications/hunting/Pub 5304_DeerSummary_FINAL.pdf
The season lengths have made for an interesting results. The largest deer take in that state now belongs to the crossbow hunters. The combined archery season harvest has overtaken the gun harvest. The gunners have been reduced significantly in season length and also their chances of harvesting deer.
Here's the 2014-2015 results:
Bow season-
        47,538 taken with the crossbow
        34112 taken with the vertical bow
Gun season-
        65,484 taken with the gun
You all might be interested in reading that article. There are a lot of surprising differences between the way Ohio does things and we do, in a lot of significant ways. Another interesting thing that I found in other articles is is that Ohio is going through a significant harvest hit that is causing an awful lot of whining. Not all is going well in the Ohio deer hunting paradise that everyone likes to point to as a model for NYS to use.

What you attribute to Ohio not being the hunting paradise shows you aren't looking at the whole picture.

The grumbles are because the DNR have largely steered the harvest reductions because they can due to their ability to control harvest #s. They can move, close, change season dates and tag allocations without moving legislative mountains.

The DNR said they were going to take actions specifically to control deer #s in certain parts of the state as there was overpopulation. Sounds familiar huh? The difference - Ohio did it.

What you deem as a problem is actually the same thing you've noted about the DECs inability to achieve here. Except Ohio walks the darn talk.




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[wolc123]

Full implementation of the crossbow, during archery season, helps the Ohio DNR to control the deer population across the state.  The crossbow is significantly more efficient, especially for killing antlerless deer, than is the vertical bow (at least it seems that we are now almost all in agreement on that).   It can also be deployed in greater numbers than vertical bows, because less time and effort are required to attain proficiency with it.   Greater numbers and greater efficiency mean more deer kills.

Hunters want as many deer as possible, while motorists, farmers, and foresters want less.   There is a balance in between, that is best for everyone and for the deer.   Allowing the crossbow throughout archery season would be a big help to the DEC in achieving that balance.  If the deer population in a particular zone is too low, then less antlerless permits would be issued.   The biggest problem the DEC has today, is controlling the deer population in zones where the deer population is too high.  Even with almost unlimited antlerless permits, the deer numbers remain out of control.  Some folks are being selfish by fighting to keep from giving the DEC a tool (the crossbow) which would help them do their job.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Buckstopshere]

So it would seem logical to open only those DMU's in NYS with a chronic overpopulation of deer to the crossbow. And leave the counties and DMUs with no problem (at or below achieving their specific buck index) alone.

[nodeerhere]

18 minutes ago, Buckstopshere said:

So it would seem logical to open only those DMU's in NYS with a chronic overpopulation of deer to the crossbow. And leave the counties and DMUs with no problem (at or below achieving their specific buck index) alone.

Best idea I've heard on this forum in a while. Then the whining crossbow guys could use it all season until they knock the population down in that area.