Mature Bucks

[Coachdad]

Hmmm... You are looking for "tactics that work on mature bucks".

I've gotten lucky a few times over the years and have been able to shoot a few mature bucks but I wouldn't consider myself an expert. 

I think the one constant is: Unless the rut is on, you have to go to them because they won't come to you. I think someone already said this... Find the nastiest spots far from everyone and still hunt it. 

When the rut is on, go to where the girls are they will come.

[genesee_mohican]

18 minutes ago, Coachdad said:

 

 I think the one constant is: Unless the rut is on, you have to go to them because they won't come to you. I think someone already said this... Find the nastiest spots far from everyone and still hunt it. 

When the rut is on, go to where the girls are they will come.

I see the same thing. Most of the season I don't see mature bucks moving, but there are usually a few days in Oct and Nov where they will be up and on the hunt for does. Good advise is to be out on the best action days which can happen anytime really. But for the slow times....setting up in, or near thick cover where a big buck is holed up is good advice.

[Buckmaster7600]

I haven't read all the responses so I don't know if it's been said but one of the biggest things about killing a mature buck is Capitalizing! There are a lot more story's about seeing a mature buck than there are about killing them. You won't get many chances so you better have you crap together when you do.

I see some are saying time in the woods and I somewhat agree but time in the woods is a lot like practice. Everyone always says you have to practice more, well there is such a thing as bad practice just as there is wasting time in the woods. If you only have "X" amount of days to hunt pick them wisely. When I was in the service I usually had about 7 days to take off for hunting season other than the 3 years I was deployed out of the 5 years I was able to come up for season I killed 3 mature Adirondack bucks and one in New Hampshire "there wasn't the conditions I wanted in NY so went where they had snow."

Back then I wasn't hunting a deer I was hunting conditions. All 3 of those ADK bucks came from different counties.

If you're serious about consistently killing mature bucks you can't have a "spot" you have to be mobile and willing to find them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buckman4c]

On ‎2‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:50 PM, NFA-ADK said:

Sounds like you are on the right path.  Try to find rub lines, this is a good indication of the bucks core area, typically where he likes to bed and feels safe.  Mock scrapes can bring in deer from a long distance, great way to invite the curious and with a cam you can tell what is in the area. 

Funnels: I tend to look for natural obstructions the deer would normally go around like a lake, steep ridge, road or any natural boundary they might go around or utilize like a beaver dam to cross an area.  Swamps, entry and exit usually comes out to a narrow spot next to a ridge.

Tracks: With all the snow still on the ground this is a great time to find core area's and simply just follow the track as long as possible to get an idea on where the deer likes to wander.  His pattern will change but if you hunt pre-rut you might be able to get him before he starts looking for doe.  Find the doe and where they like to bed, one thing is for sure big bucks will check this area, not just to see if doe are present but to scent check and see if they are starting to become receptive.  This is where setting up a doe in heat drip can work great if done at the right time!

Calling:  Simply put they get smart after 3 plus years in the woods and sometimes need to be coaxed into coming by your area during the daylight.  Doe calls, rattling and grunt calls all can work if done properly and at the right time, more is less!  Don't overcall or they will pin point you and realize it is not a deer, deer move so one calling in the same location set off alarm bells for them.

 

How I try to put it all together is through careful observation of the woods especially where the tracks are and what the deer are eating.  Then I will try and find a good location to still hunt them in thick area or find a good pinch point for ambush.  Or set up high for good observation and interpretation of how to hunt them.  Next I start calling once I find a good spot to hide, fawn calls early season, doe and buck calls late October - December.  I tend to get the best response from doe and fawn calls early mornings especially if you start before first light.  Buck grunts and doe calls I tend to use midday to late day.  Combination of doe in heat and buck tending grunt during the rut.  Rattling works great if the buck is a dominant one but does the opposite if they are not regardless of size.  Simply put some bucks are more aggressive than others, know what you have in the are can determine what calls you use.  I tend to use a grunt call set to about a 2 year old buck and try not to make him sound older as this is a deer most mature animals can beat up and is little threat to a big buck. 

Otherwise like many have stated boots to the ground will give you the best information to come up with a good game plan.  Play the wind to your advantage whenever possible.  Focus on area with deer prints larger enough to be at least 3 plus years old and verify with rubs area's.  Get up high when scouting it has been one of my best methods for finding deer, even if  you have to use a stand pre season.  Scout, I do not do much of this for other reasons but this is one of the biggest factors in guys who get mature deer almost every year, they line up more than one to hunt! 

Good luck!  Hope some of this helps!

Great information NFA. Thanks.

Here's a summary of my winter scouting so far this year. I found a large flat on top of the mountain that's a little over a 1/4 mile wide from the north ridge line to the south ridge line. The flat is made of primarily pine, rhododendron and oaks. As you get closer to the ridge lines, the woods open up and are primarily oak. Both ridge lines also have high spots before dropping down to benches. Among the rhododendron I found (3) large rubs, larger than my calf but slightly smaller than my thigh. I'm 6' tall, 240 lbs. so I'm not "skinny" LOL. All the rubs have distinct antler scuffing or gouges well above the main rub. Each rub faces to the south, toward the agriculture except for one which is rubbed on both sides of the tree.

  I had never been in this specific area so I was speed scouting to get an idea for "lay of land" before diving in on more precise deer sign. With this in mind a couple other significant terrain features stuck out. The ridge runs SW/NE, I consider the ridge lines to be a predominately south facing and north facing although they aren't entirely. To the east end of the area, a fair sized hollow cuts in to the south facing slope. The rhododendron is in the hollow and runs up on to the flat. In the rhododendron flat are two pronounced high spots or knobs. The deer trails are pretty heavy running around the east side of the knobs and in the valleys between. At the west side of the knobs is an area I'm calling the "bridge". The knobs and valleys gradually rise to the highest point of the flat and blend together. Past the blending area to the west the land gradually goes downhill. The trails were pretty pronounced and coming from nearly all directions at the "bridge".  In regards to the rubs they were basically in a line as if bucks or this buck would be traveling from the south ridge toward the north ridge. After finding the double sided rub, I walked to the north where I found an obvious high spot and bench on the north slope just below the top. In my opinion this is an ideal bedding location for a mature buck as is the south ridge line which has the same terrain features. Another words, a buck could lay on the high spot on either side of the ridge (north or south) and look either down on to the bench or down into the rhododendron thicket with most wind directions.

Obviously, advantage mature buck with the vantage point coupled with wind/scenting protection. So, with a predominantly west/NW wind direction in the late fall, my first and most serious problem is accessing the area without giving myself away. Knowing I won't absolutely be the only person hunting along this ridge, I wrestle with being aggressive or passive and in the past I have almost always given in to being passive. Based on experience, it seems like every time I've tried being aggressive, I'm lucky if I see a single deer let alone a mature deer. Since I began bow hunting this 5k acre area in 2013, I have noticed that I do NOT see other hunters/stands on the side hill areas. So, a passive, aggressive approach in my mind would be to loop in to the area and take stands on the benches and wait for a buck to cruise the bench. Problem #1 with this is not getting there before a mature buck or any deer is bedded up on the high spot of the ridge line.  My mind is also debating, the rubs, trails, overall deer sign is very concentrated within the rhododendron thicket. I very badly want to try slipping into the "bridge" spot where a bunch of trails converge. However, I would see this as being very aggressive because deer could approach that specific location with wind in the face from anywhere. Despite my very best efforts to conceal my scent, I have never gotten away with it when a mature buck was approaching from down wind. As a side note, I changed last year from Autumn blend cover scents to purely cover scents and since doing so I haven't been "winded". I haven't to my knowledge had a mature buck downwind since changing my scent control tactics so, I'm not sure if this will work any better. I just know younger bucks and doe haven't alerted to my presence since changing.

To finish off this post, my scouting is LONG from over in this area. We haven't had snow for a couple weeks down here, so, backtracking isn't going to work. I didn't have time to decipher with limited snow patches last time I was in there to backtrack. I'll let everyone know what I find during my next trip. I'm hoping to find some kind of funnel in the area.     

[phade]

This is a fun conversation.

People kill big bucks in a variety of ways. You only see a few core characteristics when paneling hunters who have this history and its more about the hunters' attributes than the actual steps they take to kill bucks. Outliers are money/fortunate circumstances.

Everything else is theory or molded into their practice which eventually are only proven by the mounts on the wall. It becomes an "it works them" belief system. Not everything applies across the board to all mature buck hunters who are successful.

Mobility is great advice. But having a spot is also great advice. Moog and I killed what likely are a 4.5 and a 5.5+ this year from a "spot." Two different stands a mere 40-50 yards away but also weeks apart. I saw another buck the day I killed the 4.5 that was probably 5+. Sometimes a spot is great advice - because it produces.

There are people I know who cannot hunt themselves out of a paper bag, but who are fortunate enough to have a spot. I can't argue with them as soon as they point to their wall, however. There is something to be learned from everyone.

Edited March 1, 2017 by phade

[Buckmaster7600]

This is a fun conversation.
People kill big bucks in a variety of ways. You only see a few core characteristics when paneling hunters who have this history and its more about the hunters' attributes than the actual steps they take to kill bucks. Outliers are money/fortunate circumstances.
Everything else is theory or molded into their practice which eventually are only proven by the mounts on the wall. It becomes an "it works them" belief system. Not everything applies across the board to all mature buck hunters who are successful.
Mobility is great advice. But having a spot is also great advice. Moog and I killed what likely are a 4.5 and a 5.5+ this year from a "spot." Two different stands a mere 40-50 yards away but also weeks apart. I saw another buck the day I killed the 4.5 that was probably 5+. Sometimes a spot is great advice - because it produces.
There are people I know who cannot hunt themselves out of a paper bag, but who are fortunate enough to have a spot. I can't argue with them as soon as they point to their wall, however. There is something to be learned from everyone.

Couldn't agree more!

The "Spot" you and Moog have definitely produces! Out here on the opposite end of the state those spots are rare to non existent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buckman4c]

Guess I'm trying to find the "spot".

I see and counted on seeing that some of you track for your bucks. I really haven't tried this tactic for a couple reasons. #1. We "sometimes" have tracking snow in rifle season. Very, very rarely during bow season. #2. Although I have what I consider large public land to hunt (5k ac. or more), it's bordered by private land that I don't have access. It only takes one turn the wrong way and the tracking is over because of heading into private land. #3. Most importantly, I sure as heck don't want to bust my butt chasing after a dandy buck to end up pushing him in front of another hunters gun. This is probably the biggest "problem". There isn't a day of the rifle season I don't see more than a handful of trucks parked along the road.

Rifle season is a free for all where I hunt in Pa. It's amazing these bucks live one year to the next but they do. That's why I concentrate on bow hunting for mature bucks. Less competition from other hunters and we catch the pre-rut/ rut.

[Buckmaster7600]

Guess I'm trying to find the "spot".
I see and counted on seeing that some of you track for your bucks. I really haven't tried this tactic for a couple reasons. #1. We "sometimes" have tracking snow in rifle season. Very, very rarely during bow season. #2. Although I have what I consider large public land to hunt (5k ac. or more), it's bordered by private land that I don't have access. It only takes one turn the wrong way and the tracking is over because of heading into private land. #3. Most importantly, I sure as heck don't want to bust my butt chasing after a dandy buck to end up pushing him in front of another hunters gun. This is probably the biggest "problem". There isn't a day of the rifle season I don't see more than a handful of trucks parked along the road.
Rifle season is a free for all where I hunt in Pa. It's amazing these bucks live one year to the next but they do. That's why I concentrate on bow hunting for mature bucks. Less competition from other hunters and we catch the pre-rut/ rut.

All valid points on tracking but there is not a more efficient way of killing mature bucks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[buckman4c]

52 minutes ago, phade said:

This is a fun conversation.

People kill big bucks in a variety of ways. You only see a few core characteristics when paneling hunters who have this history and its more about the hunters' attributes than the actual steps they take to kill bucks. Outliers are money/fortunate circumstances.

Everything else is theory or molded into their practice which eventually are only proven by the mounts on the wall. It becomes an "it works them" belief system. Not everything applies across the board to all mature buck hunters who are successful.

Mobility is great advice. But having a spot is also great advice. Moog and I killed what likely are a 4.5 and a 5.5+ this year from a "spot." Two different stands a mere 40-50 yards away but also weeks apart. I saw another buck the day I killed the 4.5 that was probably 5+. Sometimes a spot is great advice - because it produces.

There are people I know who cannot hunt themselves out of a paper bag, but who are fortunate enough to have a spot. I can't argue with them as soon as they point to their wall, however. There is something to be learned from everyone.

   What is it about your "spot". Describe the terrain, the cover, available food, how you use the wind to your advantage. Is it public land, heavily hunted private land or low pressure private land??  You obviously don't need to tell anyone where it is you hunt but feedback like that could give visuals of an area they obviously feel secure to travel.

[phade]

That's the thing - its only one spot. We have others.

No spot is the same as another spot even if it produces mature bucks all the same.

Sounds vague but you've written a ton on this and I think you need to simplify because all I see is paralysis by analysis. In hill country, target the military crest and 1/3 line from leeward side. Learn how thermals play in your specific hill country and find the beds and where they want to get from those beds. Take stabs at it and be aggressive. Not going to win many games sitting in the bleachers.

Edited March 1, 2017 by phade

[buckman4c]

40 minutes ago, phade said:

That's the thing - its only one spot. We have others.

No spot is the same as another spot even if it produces mature bucks all the same.

Sounds vague but you've written a ton on this and I think you need to simplify because all I see is paralysis by analysis. In hill country, target the military crest and 1/3 line from leeward side. Learn how thermals play in your specific hill country and find the beds and where they want to get from those beds. Take stabs at it and be aggressive. Not going to win many games sitting in the bleachers.

I like this post!! Your not the first one to tell me I overanalyze! Point taken. LOL

I'll continue to post on here what I find, what approaches I take etc.. Anyone else wanting to chime in have at it.

[buckman4c]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 3:58 PM, moog5050 said:

Check out Dan infalts videos, especially the one on hill county based on the area you describe.  Bedding points on leaword side 1/3 from top of ridge.  Hunting high in mornings and low in evenings to address thermals. 

Also check out hunting beast.  Some great discussions on strategy.   Some very good hunters all more than willing to share.  

Thanks for the resource moog. I had watched a few of his videos in the past but I went through them again recently. I picked up on a few things. Probably most importantly for me would be a more aggressive yet calculating approach. I've done many of the things he reveals in the videos about hill country bucks but there were a few things I hadn't thought about. Most telling perhaps was placing a stand in which the wind is "almost" blowing toward the deer as it approaches. This makes sense but something I've tried to avoid. The other thing I really picked up on is he is calculated when it comes to "busting" deer out when trying to access certain stand locations and still being successful. This is a very aggressive approach I absolutely try avoiding. His knowledge of wind and thermals is also very informative. Gotta get me some milkweed (LOL) 

[moog5050]

Just off winds can be important in certain areas and for certain stand sets, and yep milkweed is great and FREE.  Good luck Buckman. 

[grampy]

It is too easy to just overthink everything. My hunting areas are all hill country, with benches, saddles, valleys, ravines, cuts, washouts, swamps, thickets, hay and some crop fields, fields overgrown with buck thorn, open hardwoods, brush choked and open hill tops. So it's obvious, that one 'could' over analyze, just about every one of those 'spots' to the point where you have no idea where to go! Or consistently choose the wrong 'spot' at the wrong time. Deer need three basic things, food, water and security. Food preferences change over the course of the season. Learn what they eat, in your area, and when. Then 'beat' them to the food source, by setting up just as they move to it. Water, in most all places in NY, they can easily get just about anywhere. Security, or cover, will usually be a thick or overgrown area close to where ever they are feeding at the time. Or when they feel human pressure, the thickest, most nasty, impenetrable places that humans rarely go into. Or high on a ridge looking down, with the wind on their backside. So, once you have an idea of where they are feeding and bedding, just connect the dots, by following some 'cover' between the two. As the rut picks up, you just keep this going, by still following the doe. And setting up between the 'dots' on 'spots' between the bedding and feeding. Wind and thermals are always going to be a challenge, in hill country. As the more mature deer will not tolerate multiple scent busts, or sightings of humans. Before they avoid that particular area, during daylight hours. So if the wind changes in your 'spot' move! This could be as simple as just turning around and hunting the other side of the tree, on an oak flat. Or moving to the closest 'spot', where the wind will be in your favor. Be adaptable, Don't over hunt any one 'spot', have many of them. After awhile you will 'know' what 'spots' are better and when. Keep the deer guessing. Try not to be patterned. Use the patterns of other hunters to 'your' advantage! Be persistent! Never give up until you get your deer! And most important, keep it simple! Don't over think yourself! Just connect the dots!!!

[mt624]

I don't post on here often but want to say I enjoyed reading through the comments and advice on this post, some good stuff.  Phade, Moog5050, nfa-adk, gjs4 and Buckmaster7600 comments are great (not that others aren't).  If you listen to what these guys are saying buckman4c, there's some great advice. 

My advice: If your goal is to bag a mature buck believe in yourself every time you enter the woods and hunt like it's going to happen. Every minute in the woods is one minute closer but as you know it may take years. Too many guys take short cuts or lower the standards because they don't really believe they're going to shoot a mature deer.  Find a mature buck and hunt his turf, try to get close be aggressive and flexible.  You will learn a lot and eventually it will happen but you won't learn how to do it by studying topos or watching from a distance. Those are tools you can use but just find the animal and go for it and you'll learn how to close the deal. Good luck!

And I want to give Phade a shout out - He helped me a lot over the past couple of years with trail cam advice and last season I got a nice buck the first time I hunted him.  I had plenty of trail cam pics over two seasons but no one in our hunting party had seen him in person including me before that.  I had always used trail cams for taking inventory and what not but never hunted based on their info.  Phade was a huge help in fine tuning my setup which helped me zero in on this buck, and when the conditions were right I went in and got him. 

It's great that guys like the ones in this post are willing to offer their advice and time.  Thank you!

Edited March 2, 2017 by mt624

[Coachdad]

Buckman- You sure have put in your “due diligence” so I hope you succeed.

As I read through your scouting summary, a couple things came to mind. First of all I suggest you put a trail camera or 2 out on the rub line. Secondly, no scent is always better than cover scents. Third, forget about getting into a mature buck’s bedroom.  Especially if you are bow hunting.

The trail cameras can tell you a lot. Put them out just before the season starts.  Try to set up along his travel route which is going into the agricultural area that you mentioned.

I would scout out a few possible tree-stand locations that I could use along the travel route based on the wind. This is where a climbing tree-stand comes in handy.

Also in your scouting make sure you take note of the doe areas. As late October and early November approach, he WILL be cruising the doe areas.

Good luck.

[buckman4c]

Appreciate the replies, support and ideas. Thanks

I'll be out this weekend to scout the area again. Just an FYI, I use a phone app. to document sign etc.. Awesome tool for connecting the dots. (GEO-PAK Hunt) I think there's probably better ones out there but this is the one I'm using for now.

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by buckman4c

[dbHunterNY]

On 2/28/2017 at 7:06 PM, phade said:

This is a fun conversation.

People kill big bucks in a variety of ways. You only see a few core characteristics when paneling hunters who have this history and its more about the hunters' attributes than the actual steps they take to kill bucks. Outliers are money/fortunate circumstances.

Everything else is theory or molded into their practice which eventually are only proven by the mounts on the wall. It becomes an "it works them" belief system. Not everything applies across the board to all mature buck hunters who are successful.

Mobility is great advice. But having a spot is also great advice. Moog and I killed what likely are a 4.5 and a 5.5+ this year from a "spot." Two different stands a mere 40-50 yards away but also weeks apart. I saw another buck the day I killed the 4.5 that was probably 5+. Sometimes a spot is great advice - because it produces.

There are people I know who cannot hunt themselves out of a paper bag, but who are fortunate enough to have a spot. I can't argue with them as soon as they point to their wall, however. There is something to be learned from everyone.

 

On 2/28/2017 at 7:12 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

Couldn't agree more!

The "Spot" you and Moog have definitely produces! Out here on the opposite end of the state those spots are rare to non existent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

it's actually very true when i think about how i lived and hunted in WNY versus here in eastern NY where i grew up and am now.  spots had the same characteristics and both produced bucks.  "spots" i had in WNY seemed to produce bigger bucks closer to maturity (6.5) year to year more consistently than out this way.  Out this way bigger (older) ones seem to revolve around access (working to get permission on private urban/suburban ground) or getting back in away from people.  one public land spot in 8G was awesome.  what happened on private land that boarded it helped the situation and i made a private donation to gain access to the public spot that'd be otherwise not feasible to get to from the normal trail heads/parking areas.

[Death From Above]

A lot of good suggestions in this thread.  Especially agree with all the attention to scouting and trail cameras. 

I think that TIME has a lot to do with it.  If a hunter wants to count on more than just luck then I think TIME can be a key.  Most of my friends say I'm the luckiest hunter they know, so I choose luck every time if possible, but I think that my "luck" might have a little more to do with TIME.  Lots of time scouting.  Lots of time with cameras scouting for you.  Lots of time hunting.  I probably spend more time hunting than most due to owning my own business, so I have the ability to put lots of time in on stand.  The more time that I hunt, the more I observe, the more I can adjust.  That said, too much TIME spent in one area can be very bad when hunting older bucks.  In fact I think that one of the biggest keys is to resist - no matter how hard it is - hunting some of your best stands too much, or even at all before the time is right.  I agree that the first time in a stand is likely the best opportunity to kill a deer.  So why so many people hunt their best stands before the bucks let their guard down during the rut is sometimes confusing to me.  Try keeping one of your best stands fresh and don't hunt it until the rut hits, then hunt it with the best wind.  This strategy almost always seems to provide me with my best hunts of the season.

I know that not everyone can put lots of time in like I mentioned above, but I think it is certainly a large reason that some people seem to kill good bucks every year.  If you can't increase the time you can put in on stand, then I think that the time put in scouting becomes even more important.

I agree that you have the opportunity to hunt very good bucks right where you are, and I know you suggested in your first post that you didn't need to consider hunting elsewhere.  I understand that you are looking for suggestions regarding the time you put in on stand hunting near your house.  But, living in PA you unfortunately have to give up deer hunting for two weeks, which happen right during some of the best rut hunting of the season.  Have you ever taken advantage of that and head somewhere else to hunt?  I LOVE driving to the Midwest to hunt where there are quite a few more mature bucks to hunt than where I spend most of my time on stand.  I had a hard time believing that mature bucks could act like they do on hunting shows - until I went to Kansas and watched bucks walk around in broad daylight and come to rattling and calls more than not.  I am not suggesting that you need to go elsewhere, but it certainly wouldn't hurt your chances to "break the seal" on a good mature buck.  Especially if you can't hunt at home anyways during the closed season in PA.  I'd also add that I have never been on a guided hunt, ever, and its never cost me a lot of money like I thought it would to hunt in the midwest.  There are great opportunities out there to hunt good bucks at a reasonable out of pocket cost.  Lots of state land or even private land opportunities.  Just an idea.  You seem like you put a lot of thought into your hunting, and you have enough tools for sure to go and use them elsewhere to possibly provide an opportunity on a nice buck in another state to go along with your big PA buck. 

 

 

[Coachdad]

14 hours ago, Death From Above said:

A lot of good suggestions in this thread.  Especially agree with all the attention to scouting and trail cameras. 

I think that TIME has a lot to do with it.  If a hunter wants to count on more than just luck then I think TIME can be a key.  Most of my friends say I'm the luckiest hunter they know, so I choose luck every time if possible, but I think that my "luck" might have a little more to do with TIME.  Lots of time scouting.  Lots of time with cameras scouting for you.  Lots of time hunting.  I probably spend more time hunting than most due to owning my own business, so I have the ability to put lots of time in on stand.  The more time that I hunt, the more I observe, the more I can adjust.  That said, too much TIME spent in one area can be very bad when hunting older bucks.  In fact I think that one of the biggest keys is to resist - no matter how hard it is - hunting some of your best stands too much, or even at all before the time is right.  I agree that the first time in a stand is likely the best opportunity to kill a deer.  So why so many people hunt their best stands before the bucks let their guard down during the rut is sometimes confusing to me.  Try keeping one of your best stands fresh and don't hunt it until the rut hits, then hunt it with the best wind.  This strategy almost always seems to provide me with my best hunts of the season.

I know that not everyone can put lots of time in like I mentioned above, but I think it is certainly a large reason that some people seem to kill good bucks every year.  If you can't increase the time you can put in on stand, then I think that the time put in scouting becomes even more important.

I agree that you have the opportunity to hunt very good bucks right where you are, and I know you suggested in your first post that you didn't need to consider hunting elsewhere.  I understand that you are looking for suggestions regarding the time you put in on stand hunting near your house.  But, living in PA you unfortunately have to give up deer hunting for two weeks, which happen right during some of the best rut hunting of the season.  Have you ever taken advantage of that and head somewhere else to hunt?  I LOVE driving to the Midwest to hunt where there are quite a few more mature bucks to hunt than where I spend most of my time on stand.  I had a hard time believing that mature bucks could act like they do on hunting shows - until I went to Kansas and watched bucks walk around in broad daylight and come to rattling and calls more than not.  I am not suggesting that you need to go elsewhere, but it certainly wouldn't hurt your chances to "break the seal" on a good mature buck.  Especially if you can't hunt at home anyways during the closed season in PA.  I'd also add that I have never been on a guided hunt, ever, and its never cost me a lot of money like I thought it would to hunt in the midwest.  There are great opportunities out there to hunt good bucks at a reasonable out of pocket cost.  Lots of state land or even private land opportunities.  Just an idea.  You seem like you put a lot of thought into your hunting, and you have enough tools for sure to go and use them elsewhere to possibly provide an opportunity on a nice buck in another state to go along with your big PA buck. 

 

 

This post is full of great advice.

[grampy]

43 minutes ago, Coachdad said:

This post is full of great advice.

Absolutely! 

This has been a very good, informative thread.

Just a bunch of hunters sharing ideas, with no bluster or bickering.

Very refreshing. 

[chas0218]

You said you are shooting 2.5 year old bucks, that might be your problem. You need to pass on the 2.5 year olds for them to get older and bigger. I would hunt food sources in the evening, if you don't have any food sources where you hunt that would be your problem. The best time to kill a mature buck is during the rut when they drop their guard. There are a ton of variables that play into seeing a mature buck before you can kill one. Play the wind and have more than one option, if the wind isn't good for that area don't go there no matter how bad you want to hunt it. If you educate that mature buck to your patterns it won't be long until he moves onto a new property/area. Here are the key things I have done to kill a mature buck.

1. Scout-Do a lot of pre-season scouting taking notes of where you have saw sign of big deer. Usually deer scat from big deer is lumped together more solid. The size of the prints is another good indicator of the size of the animal the further in the mud it goes the heavier the animal. 
2. Stand, Still hunting, or stalking-Figure out if you are going to elevate yourself off the ground to give you a better field of view or plan on stalking. Either way know the area how thermals on the hills work, and wind direction of the area. In an area I hunt it can be a west wind but the way the hills fall it usually ends up being a northwest. Only real way to know this is by hunting the area for a couple seasons or frequent trips to the area.
3. Don't over hunt 1 location! This is huge, if you don't see any deer for a couple sits go somewhere else to let the area cool down. The only time I have ever hunted an area back to back for more than 3 or 4 days is if it rains at night or in between sits. The rain will wash away your scent after you leave so it was like you were never there. When I say rain I mean a soaking rain or hours long drizzle.
4. Know your surroundings and the direction the deer travel I know this sounds obvious but not all deer travel the same and the bigger smarter ones don't do what the rest do. The majority of people that hunt hills/mountains say deer travel top to down morning to dusk, don't take this for gospel probably half of the mature deer I have shot were crossing parallel to the hill/mountain. This is where the scouting comes in.
5. Hunt area where there are big bucks-another obvious one but if the people in the area shoot anything that moves most likely there won't be any "mature" bucks in the vicinity. They get big by being smart and being in an area that gets shot all to crap isn't smart.
6. Food Sources-This goes along with the scouting but worth mentioning as its own entity. You need to figure out the majority of the diet of deer in that area. No AG fields means tree nuts, so you need to find oaks, beech, hickory, maybe even wild apples and grapes. Deer love soft maple buds/tree tops so if there are a lot of recently downed trees you might be in for a pleasant surprise.
7. Find the doe-If you are planning on hunting during the rut you need to find the doe otherwise you won't see any bucks. In the beginning of rut deer will travel very long distances to find a early hot doe. Once they do they generally don't leave her at least till he has had his way with her. 

Nothing I can tell you will beat experience the more time in the woods the more you will learn. 

[NFA-ADK]

Your description is amazing, you have me captivated!  FYI : I do not consider myself an expert just passionate and knowledgeable.  I always considered 3 plus year old deer mature as they really seem to wise up from this age on and have full skeletal development even though I know a fully mature deer is usually considered 5+ for full muscle development.  I also know mature can depend on area as sometimes a 2.5 is all that is around.  Getting knowledge from other more experienced hunters here is simply priceless and the depth of knowledge is always valuable as experience is evident.

Last years spot sounds like another good location I would keep that and check other possible spots to set up.  This second spot sounds like a great location where your bridge is located yet it also sounds like it is close to the bucks bedding area like you said.  The rhododendron where the rubs are is another possible bedding area as they love the thick cover.  This sounds like a spot you might want to avoid and try and hunt the outer area's to prevent detection, until the wind is perfect along with timing, sounds really hard to do and will be almost impossible if it is where he beds as stated before.  Trail cams as stated would help otherwise you would need to scout it by posting or getting up in the stand early and late day just to see what activity is around.  From what you have posted it sounds like you are passionate and have a good understanding of what is happening in the woods...  You can read sign well!  I would do as others have stated and try some other spots so you have options for different winds.  Your speed scouting is working and it sounds like you have a good read on the sign, keep looking for more rubs or similar area to what you are describing now and you will find more "good" locations to hunt.   Your experience is evident and your knowledge of these areas will only improve.

 Tactics and busting deer when entering in the dark.  One of the best calling technics I have used is a return snort at any alarmed deer when entering in the dark and especially in cover.  Simply put it settles their nerves and if you are not directly spotted often results in them coming to you.  I push as much air as possible through closed teeth usually mimicking the snort or louder.  If not in the location or stand I usually will do a swift run to the area mimicking a fleeing deer.  This has worked well to keep deer in an area you need to get into undetected or detected as another deer I should say.

  It sounds like you do use a passive mode of hunting, find another spot you can try aggressive tactics.  You might find something that works even if you have to penetrate an area like the bridge during peak rut with some doe in heat scent and some doe in heat calls.  Sometimes taking a calculated risk can reap results.  Don't be afraid to try something different especially during the rut as anything can happen. 

Love the topic, looking forward to your next report!!!

[buckman4c]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 11:03 PM, Death From Above said:

I agree that you have the opportunity to hunt very good bucks right where you are, and I know you suggested in your first post that you didn't need to consider hunting elsewhere.  I understand that you are looking for suggestions regarding the time you put in on stand hunting near your house.  But, living in PA you unfortunately have to give up deer hunting for two weeks, which happen right during some of the best rut hunting of the season.  Have you ever taken advantage of that and head somewhere else to hunt?  I LOVE driving to the Midwest to hunt where there are quite a few more mature bucks to hunt than where I spend most of my time on stand.  I had a hard time believing that mature bucks could act like they do on hunting shows - until I went to Kansas and watched bucks walk around in broad daylight and come to rattling and calls more than not.  I am not suggesting that you need to go elsewhere, but it certainly wouldn't hurt your chances to "break the seal" on a good mature buck.  Especially if you can't hunt at home anyways during the closed season in PA.  I'd also add that I have never been on a guided hunt, ever, and its never cost me a lot of money like I thought it would to hunt in the midwest.  There are great opportunities out there to hunt good bucks at a reasonable out of pocket cost.  Lots of state land or even private land opportunities.  Just an idea.  You seem like you put a lot of thought into your hunting, and you have enough tools for sure to go and use them elsewhere to possibly provide an opportunity on a nice buck in another state to go along with your big PA buck. 

 

 

Thanks to all of you for the replies. Very informative! I'll get back to each you after this weekends scouting.

In regards to the above post, I have hunted a few times out of state for deer (Virginia, New York, Maine and Mississippi). Done some Elk/Mule deer hunting in Colorado as well. I love going out of State and have future plans of doing so for whitetails.

 With the two week period after our bow season, I really enjoy going to bear camp in Potter County. So, I bear hunt Potter and on Sunday of our bear season, I take a ride up to New York and hunt a day of gun season for deer. Just learning NY but our guys saw deer on a blustery, snowy day,  just no bucks. Considered it a good outing despite the weather and not really knowing the area well.

  I suppose I should have mentioned in the beginning that my "goal" is to kill a mature buck in my home state of PA. I was fortunate enough to kill a mature buck in Virginia when I hunted there for 3 whole days. (LOL- go figure) Now that was "luck"!! I like to believe my map reading skills killed that buck but it really was luck that two bucks chased a hot doe in front of my bro in-law then came up over the ridge to me. He shot one, I shot the other. LOL

  All of my hunting is public land here in Pa and with exception to Mississippi, DIY on public land out of state. I've been very fortunate in my hunting career but ONE thing eludes me like no other!! LOL

[rachunter]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:58 PM, moog5050 said:

Check out Dan infalts videos, especially the one on hill county based on the area you describe.  Bedding points on leaword side 1/3 from top of ridge.  Hunting high in mornings and low in evenings to address thermals. 

just a quick thanks.

i ordered hill country bucks,swap bedding & marsh bucks.Great info not the usual garbage you see on the outdoor channel.I'm heading up next week to put it to the test. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by rachunter
spelling