Tesla’s Cars Will Soon Be Just As Affordable as Gas-Powered Vehicles

[Buckmaster7600]

I don't care about an electric car what I want is an outboard motor that doesn't need 3 100lb batteries that will push my boat at 2mph for 10 or 12hrs. When someone comes up with one I will own one.


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[stubborn1VT]

Wouldn't the right sized 4 stroke kicker motor do that?

[EspressoBuzz]

Many deride the alternative energy and it's many off shoots as money grabs. They are either ignorant of or ok with the fact that oil industries grab far more money and they are already rich, automobile companies in the past have been the biggest money grabbers of all. But most disturbing is how automobile makes bought all sorts of public transportation across the country and drove them into the ground to increase auto sales.

[Jeremy K]

35 minutes ago, EspressoBuzz said:

Many deride the alternative energy and it's many off shoots as money grabs. They are either ignorant of or ok with the fact that oil industries grab far more money and they are already rich, automobile companies in the past have been the biggest money grabbers of all. But most disturbing is how automobile makes bought all sorts of public transportation across the country and drove them into the ground to increase auto sales.

When you first started posting about Tesla ,it seemed you were open minded to what was really going on with tesla/solar city/space x . you seem to be blinded by the whole scam now .

[Buckmaster7600]

Wouldn't the right sized 4 stroke kicker motor do that?

Yup but they are finicky don't like to run in cold weather require gas and very frequent oil changes. All around gas kickers are pains in the butt. An electric would be perfect but technology just isn't there yet.


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[josephmrtn]

I freaking love the Model S and want to buy one someday.

https://www.tesla.com/models

 

[wolc123]

6 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

Yup but they are finicky don't like to run in cold weather require gas and very frequent oil changes. All around gas kickers are pains in the butt. An electric would be perfect but technology just isn't there yet.


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I have a 1950's Mercury K-5, 2-stroke (16:1 gas/oil mix) outboard, with a built-in gas tank, that weighs less than a 12 volt deep-cycle battery. It runs good and starts on the first or second pull, when the water is down to about 40 degrees.   It started for me with the water temperature in the mid-thirties, last Thanksgiving weekend, but it took quite a few pulls to go.  This motor is direct-drive, with no reverse or neutral, and that saves considerable weight.   I only use it in cold-weather conditions, because it's light-weight makes the icy stairs down to the lake a lot safer.  It also pushes the boat as fast as a modern 7.5 hp (Mercury used to under-state the hp back in that era).   I bought two of them (non-running) for $20 at an auction about 15 years ago.   I gave one to a marine-mechanic friend in exchange for getting the other one running like new (new water pump, recoil-cable, carb-rebuild, new plugs and tune-up).         

[Buckmaster7600]

I have a 1950's Mercury K-5, 2-stroke (16:1 gas/oil mix) outboard, with a built-in gas tank, that weighs less than a 12 volt deep-cycle battery. It runs good and starts on the first or second pull, when the water is down to about 40 degrees.   It started for me with the water temperature in the mid-thirties, last Thanksgiving weekend, but it took quite a few pulls to go.  This motor is direct-drive, with no reverse or neutral, and that saves considerable weight.   I only use it in cold-weather conditions, because it's light-weight makes the icy stairs down to the lake a lot safer.  It also pushes the boat as fast as a modern 7.5 hp (Mercury used to under-state the hp back in that era).   I bought two of them (non-running) for $20 at an auction about 15 years ago.   I gave one to a marine-mechanic friend in exchange for getting the other one running like new (new water pump, recoil-cable, carb-rebuild, new plugs and tune-up).         

I have an Suzuki 9.9 efi kicker now and it's OK. Doesn't like to idle when it's cold "below 20deg." It's sad because I bought it because it being fuel injected I was told that it would shine during winter fishing but it doesn't.

Next year I will likely have a 15hp evinrude ETec as a kicker. Almost 100lbs heavier but they run great in the cold.


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[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Next year I will likely have a 15hp evinrude ETec as a kicker. Almost 100lbs heavier but they run great in the cold.


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Hopefully, the new Evinrudes do better in the cold than they did about 25 years ago.  I remember when 4 of us were on a moose hunt up North in Quebec back then.  We had two of them, including my old, well-used 9.5 and a friends brand-new 15.  The water temperature was very close to freezing and the air was colder.   The new 15 was so tight, we could not even pull the rope.   My old 9.5 started and ran pretty good.  

A light-weight battery that works good in the cold on a 5 hp or larger electric outboard might come around in another 10 years or so.  Until it does, I am thankful for that 60 some year old Mercury 2-stroke and a good set of oars   Another big advantage of the electric is the lack of noise.   Not firing up the gas outboard early in the morning opens up a whole new world when it comes to seeing wildlife.     

[DirtTime]

How well will these electric cars be getting a hunter to and from his hunting areas in bad weather? What about towing a camp trailer or boat?

 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, ....rob said:

How well will these electric cars be getting a hunter to and from his hunting areas in bad weather? What about towing a camp trailer or boat?

 

Yes, the devil is in the details when it comes to new technology, and no one wants to get into these details. We have a special kind of driving condition here in the northeast that involves snow ...... and lots of it. And so when car manufacturers begin stripping away every last pound to achieve high mileage or allow marginal technology to even work, my mind immediately flashes to driving through a foot of snow up my 1000' driveway, or trying to make enough speed along ice covered roads to beat the draining of batteries before I even get home. It is a unique driving condition that is not exactly unheard of in our area that no one seems to want to rate or even talk about as they brag about their ecological successes. But to me, I rate snow performance right up there with mileage, cost, and reliability.

[EspressoBuzz]

I don't think anyone believes that electric cars will replace all gas powered cars for many many years. the fact is electric cars will find a home where the issues raised here will not be a deterrent, a home where their advantages will be better appreciated. If electric cars are adopted only in Americas largest cities, they will have a huge impact on noise, pollution and the quality of life in those places. I do think eventually they will gain advantages for even non urban environments but it will be a long time off.

[Merlot]

I'm working on a Star Trek type transporter room...

[Adkhunter1590]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/lithium-ion-pioneer-introduces-battery-174641552.html

The guy who invented today's lithium batteries that run just about everything has no created a new type of battery. The guy is 94! Pretty cool he's still working on stuff like this! As the years go on there will be some neat advancements that's for sure

[Core]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

Yes, the devil is in the details when it comes to new technology, and no one wants to get into these details. We have a special kind of driving condition here in the northeast that involves snow ...... and lots of it. And so when car manufacturers begin stripping away every last pound to achieve high mileage or allow marginal technology to even work, my mind immediately flashes to driving through a foot of snow up my 1000' driveway, or trying to make enough speed along ice covered roads to beat the draining of batteries before I even get home. It is a unique driving condition that is not exactly unheard of in our area that no one seems to want to rate or even talk about as they brag about their ecological successes. But to me, I rate snow performance right up there with mileage, cost, and reliability.

These cars are actually very heavy. They perform fine in snow; stability & traction control and even weight distribution.

They are not meant to be used for road trips or towing trailers. They are for some people an acceptable primary vehicle and for most people an acceptable secondary.

In my year of driving a Nissan Leaf my only complaint with it was that its cabin heat was underwhelming and it had range issues, particularly when cold. But that was a few years ago and they are getting better fast. The throttle response on an electric car is second to none; better even than the best exotic sports car with literally instant maximum torque. No ICE powertrain can deliver it.

[DirtTime]

5 hours ago, Core said:

These cars are actually very heavy. They perform fine in snow; stability & traction control and even weight distribution.

They are not meant to be used for road trips or towing trailers. They are for some people an acceptable primary vehicle and for most people an acceptable secondary.

In my year of driving a Nissan Leaf my only complaint with it was that its cabin heat was underwhelming and it had range issues, particularly when cold. But that was a few years ago and they are getting better fast. The throttle response on an electric car is second to none; better even than the best exotic sports car with literally instant maximum torque. No ICE powertrain can deliver it.

Do you have to drive down back roads with no pavement, or old logging roads to get to your hunting spots? Not arguing, just asking a simple question.

 

Still no comment on the towing. Don't forget, when you look at people who really love the outdoors, they aren't all just hunters carrying gear in the trunk, some are campers and fishermen as well, they have campers they haul and bass fishing rigs ( not a light tow along with a trolling motor ). I wonder how many batteries one would need to haul a 16' bass rig from, say, the capitol Area to the Saranac region? 

[EspressoBuzz]

Core stated right in his post "they are not meant for towing"

Additionally I think we have agreed that electric vehicles are not for everyone or everywhere. If electric cars replaced only the vehicles used in large urban areas that would be a huge chunk of the 250 million cars in the USA and reduce air pollution in those areas greatly.

[Adkhunter1590]

I don't think towing will be as big of an issue once they figure out bigger and better battery capacity.

Towing with a truck now causes you to lose usually 30% to even 50% mpg. So what's the difference in a electric truck having a unloaded range of 400 miles or a towing range of 280 miles. I see this as more of a temporary hurdle these companies need to figure out rather than a flat out non compete.

[Buckmaster7600]

I don't think towing will be as big of an issue once they figure out bigger and better battery capacity.

Towing with a truck now causes you to lose usually 30% to even 50% mpg. So what's the difference in a electric truck having a unloaded range of 400 miles or a towing range of 280 miles. I see this as more of a temporary hurdle these companies need to figure out rather than a flat out non compete.

It takes 10minutes to fill up with gas and hours to charge a battery, just not practical on a trip.


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[Buckmaster7600]

I think where an electric vehicle will shine is where they aren't marketed at all. On job sites where vehicles are used to haul things around jobs or on farms where farm trucks aren't ever driven farther than a few miles. They would need large payload and tow capacities but range isn't really important. Gas or diesel vehicles have a lot of trouble in the jobs because of being started and turned off so often and never getting up to optimum running temps.


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[Adkhunter1590]

It takes 10minutes to fill up with gas and hours to charge a battery, just not practical on a trip.


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This is true with current systems. But it's not gonna be that way for long. Look how fast you can charge a lot of different electronics now. I've read they want to eventually make the breakthrough into wireless charging while driving down highways and such. At that point, depending on where you lived, keeping charged up will be as simple as driving to work. The stuff they are talking about doing is pretty wild and not incredibly far fetched. A lot of it I think we will see in the next 25 years.

[Jeremy K]

3 hours ago, EspressoBuzz said:

Core stated right in his post "they are not meant for towing"

Additionally I think we have agreed that electric vehicles are not for everyone or everywhere. If electric cars replaced only the vehicles used in large urban areas that would be a huge chunk of the 250 million cars in the USA and reduce air pollution in those areas greatly.

It's funny that electric technology gets written off when it comes to hauling but some of the most burly dump trucks in the world (mining applications) are driven by electric motors.

[Core]

19 hours ago, ....rob said:

Do you have to drive down back roads with no pavement, or old logging roads to get to your hunting spots? Not arguing, just asking a simple question.

 

Still no comment on the towing. Don't forget, when you look at people who really love the outdoors, they aren't all just hunters carrying gear in the trunk, some are campers and fishermen as well, they have campers they haul and bass fishing rigs ( not a light tow along with a trolling motor ). I wonder how many batteries one would need to haul a 16' bass rig from, say, the capitol Area to the Saranac region? 

These vehicles are just not suited to towing or off-road, but that's because only a small segment of the population needs a vehicle to do that, and for those who need it they could keep a heavy duty gas car.

[Core]

5 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

It's funny that electric technology gets written off when it comes to hauling but some of the most burly dump trucks in the world (mining applications) are driven by electric motors.

Aren't train's drive wheels also powered by electric motors?

Short term, Tesla and others are already working on charging mats so that you need not even plug your car in when you get home. Although the electric car I had delivered generally poor range, it was kind of nice never, ever filling up with gas. Even though there are times it's nice to be able to do it (5 minute stop and another 400-500 miles), a car with a large pack and a quick plug in when you get home (or mats eventually on the garage floor) means you never even need to spend a minute doing it again on your primary commuter. Chevy volt takes a good stab at this: generally run on electric, but gas if you really need it. Main problem with the volt is it is too dang small.

People have explored changing out battery packs to let these cars do road trips, and Tesla has fast charge stations throughout the country, but I still think it's a problem that in practice few people really worry about (just keep a gas car as the primary), and the solutions introduce their own problems.

Hydrogen always seems to be 10-20 years away. In 10-20 years it will still be 10-20 years away!

[Buckmaster7600]

Aren't train's drive wheels also powered by electric motors?
Short term, Tesla and others are already working on charging mats so that you need not even plug your car in when you get home. Although the electric car I had delivered generally poor range, it was kind of nice never, ever filling up with gas. Even though there are times it's nice to be able to do it (5 minute stop and another 400-500 miles), a car with a large pack and a quick plug in when you get home (or mats eventually on the garage floor) means you never even need to spend a minute doing it again on your primary commuter. Chevy volt takes a good stab at this: generally run on electric, but gas if you really need it. Main problem with the volt is it is too dang small.
People have explored changing out battery packs to let these cars do road trips, and Tesla has fast charge stations throughout the country, but I still think it's a problem that in practice few people really worry about (just keep a gas car as the primary), and the solutions introduce their own problems.

Hydrogen always seems to be 10-20 years away. In 10-20 years it will still be 10-20 years away!

Trains are diesel over electric not practical or needed in a car.


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