Elephant In The Room

[DirtTime]

So many people up in arms about some serious very valid issues, but many seem to be neglecting one of the other big elephants in the room. How to deal with N-Korea (again).

What are your thoughts on handling their missile testing?

 

[Adkhunter1590]

At some point we are gonna have to bomb them into submission....or invade and just take over. I don't see it going many other ways. NK obviously isn't going to back down so we will be forced into some sort of action.

[DirtTime]

17 minutes ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

At some point we are gonna have to bomb them into submission....or invade and just take over. I don't see it going many other ways. NK obviously isn't going to back down so we will be forced into some sort of action.

So you think talks with China will do no good? Trying to talk China into getting Kim under control won't work?

I'd really hate to see it escalade into a war. I am not for backing down, I just don't want to see nukes launched from any side.

[wolc123]

 I see more of an opportunity than a problem.  Trump is planning the biggest Naval expansion since the Reagan era.   Japan is unable to increase the size of her own navy, due to restrictions which were imposed following the WWII defeat.   For many years, that nation has enjoyed "free" naval protection from the US, while at the same time exporting far more dollars in goods to the US than are imported.

Those rockets that the North Koreans have been testing are a negligible threat to the US, thanks to the miles of ocean in between, but certainly are pushing their Japanese neighbors to panic.  I see a win-win deal, where Japan will benefit from those additional ships.   It should not take much more of Kim's "convincing" to get Japan to help pay for some of those new ships.       

Edited March 18, 2017 by wolc123

[DirtTime]

11 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 I see those tests as more of an opportunity than a problem.  Trump is planning the biggest Naval expansion since the Reagan era.   Japan is unable to increase the size of her own navy, due to restrictions which were imposed following the WWII defeat.   For many years, that nation has enjoyed "free" naval protection from the US, while at the same time exporting far more dollars in goods to the US than are imported.

Those rockets that the North Koreans have been testing are a negligible threat to the US, thanks to the miles of ocean in between, but certainly are pushing their Japanese neighbors to panic.  I see a win-win deal, where Japan will benefit from those additional ships.   It should not take much more of Kim's "convincing" to get Japan to help pay for some of those new ships.       

Why would Japan pay for anything? What news do you watch? Care to expand on why you think Japan would get involved? 

I am not going to post links because I think it's about damn time we started thinking for ourselves! You best look at who NK is aligning with. I will give you a hint, "terrorists" .

No offense wolc123, but if you really are the religious person you claim to be, then you should be looking at the extreme weather, the wars, and realize what was written in the Bible is coming to fruition.

 

With that said............

 

 

 

I agree, we need to put severe crimp in the panties of Kim Jong-un! This dude had his own half brother killed, so if you think he's not a force to be reckoned with, you are mistaken. 

[Adkhunter1590]

So you think talks with China will do no good? Trying to talk China into getting Kim under control won't work?
I'd really hate to see it escalade into a war. I am not for backing down, I just don't want to see nukes launched from any side.

I don't foresee china doing much of anything other than maybe making a press statement condemning any acts of NK.

The only time china is gonna step in is if we invaded. They would probably at that time invade as well from the north. And we'd end up with another Berlin situation like we did with Russia in WWII. China wouldn't like us controlling territory so close to them, they would feel compelled to make sure they had a strong presence in NK.

I don't see nukes being used unless they launched one first...then that pretty much makes it fair game. I highly doubt NK's missiles would even reach our west coast with all the defenses we have in place, but if they went as far as to launch one at anyone, you know they aren't gonna stop and will need to be blown off the map quickly.

[wolc123]

48 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Why would Japan pay for anything?

Answer: So that we would use our Navy to protect them.

 

What news do you watch?

Answer: FOX, CNN, MSNBC

 

48 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Care to expand on why you think Japan would get involved? 

Answer: Because they are unable to defend themselves and are dependent on our help.

 

No offense wolc123, but if you really are the religious person you claim to be, then you should be looking at the extreme weather, the wars, and realize what was written in the Bible is coming to fruition.

 

No offense taken, but thanks for bringing up the Bible.  Total faith in Jesus Christ is enough to eliminate any fear in me.   The story has a happy ending, and the bad guy's always loose.  

 

I agree, we need to put severe crimp in the panties of Kim Jong-un! This dude had his own half brother killed, so if you think he's not a force to be reckoned with, you are mistaken. 

Maybe we should thank him for the help in paying for our ships.  

[Steve D]

With the 2018 Winter Olympics being held in South Korea I sure hope they resolve something SOON!!

[philoshop]

I haven't closely studied the current situation, but I think Kim will back down from any possible confrontation with the U.S. He's a petulant child and mostly irrational in his thinking, but he knows that if he starts a shooting war the U.S. will side with whoever he's shooting at. Even China if it comes to that. He just needs to come to the realization that he's no longer dealing with Mr. Obama. President Trump is an entirely different animal who simply won't put up with Kim's nonsense.

[The_Field_Ager]

We should stop feeding their people for starters, That might force all their military spending in other directions. Givng them financial aid is insane

[diplomat019]

Heres my opinion on N Korea

1-   They want nothing to do with us.  They might be a little off but they know that IF we wanted to we could turn their country into a parking lot.  

 

2-   Im sick of us policing the world.  We have our own issues to deal with in our mainland.  UnEmployment, domestic terrorism, our infrastructure, etc.  take a look at where we have bases.  Its insane.   

[Core]

This is one of my favorite topics (though morbid) and I've been reading up on NK for many years.

Some of my views in summary:
 

• NK is not now nor has ever been particularly crazy. They are extremely good at portraying themselves as crazy, but I believe most of this is bluffing (Saddam did the same thing prior to the Iraq war, basically being deliberately vague about whether he had WMD, in part to keep Iran scared that maybe he did)
• NK has a massive but effective army. They lack infrastructure to support it, they have old equipment, no air power or navy worth mentioning. There is quite literally 0% chance they could ever successfully invade SK, and in an invasion of NK air power would run roughshod over them. Similar to what happened to Iraq.
• The NK regime is contemporary time's most evil and I believe is proof that we as a species have not learned from our mistakes. We said after the nazis never again, and yet meanwhile NK has hundreds of thousands in prison camps, including kids. Literal slaves. Fear and mass murder are commonplace and have been for decades, well documented and known. 
• Rex is correct that the strategic patience does not work. In this century NK has evolved into a nuclear power. They have some nuclear bombs now (these would never, ever get past the DMZ on bombers, of course), and are working on rockets. They may or may not yet have the ability to put one into a ballistic missile, but they will soon
• NK is never going to preemptively attack any other country because--see point 1--they are not crazy and they know they would lose. The biggest risk to sitting around now is that when they have a strong supply of nukes and we are not 100% sure we can knock them all out of the sky, it then becomes absolutely inconceivable to ever force regime change because they may unleash the nukes in response. If we are ever going to see it, we literally have to do it NOW. It is not dying on its own. If the regime is going to be forced out, we have to do it now now now now now, it will be too late later and it may already be too late; there is concern in the military that it would not be possible now, given they are using solidstate rockets, to preemptively and convincingly remove all their nuclear program. So, sitting around on our ass (Bush and Obama get equal blame for this) has given us nothing except a lost opportunity
• Unless or until China gets on board, no preemptive attack on NK is really plausible because China will go absolutely bonkers over it.

[philoshop]

No offense intended Core, but you seem to be arguing both sides of the reality here.

At one point you argue that NK is crazy, and in the next point you argue that the leadership is not crazy. In another point you argue that something must be done "now, now, now", but then you argue that nothing can be done 'now'.

Again, it's not personal. I'm just not able to follow you're argument.

[wolc123]

7 hours ago, diplomat019 said:

Heres my opinion on N Korea

 

2-   Im sick of us policing the world.  We have our own issues to deal with in our mainland.  UnEmployment, domestic terrorism, our infrastructure, etc.  take a look at where we have bases.  Its insane.   

History tends to repeat itself.  Prior to WWII, that exact same opinion was popular in the US.  Because of our isolationist policy back then, we came very close to loosing that war.  A forward presence in "trouble spots" has never been more important than it is today.   "Policing the world" is not such a bad idea, especially with a Commander-in-chief who has enough sense to get those "police" paid in part by those foreign powers who are enjoying their protection.  That is something that was sadly lacking under the previous administration. 

[The_Field_Ager]

[Trial153]

I quit reading the tread at the book of revelation reference.

[chas0218]

On 3/17/2017 at 10:31 PM, wolc123 said:

 I see more of an opportunity than a problem.  Trump is planning the biggest Naval expansion since the Reagan era.   Japan is unable to increase the size of her own navy, due to restrictions which were imposed following the WWII defeat.   For many years, that nation has enjoyed "free" naval protection from the US, while at the same time exporting far more dollars in goods to the US than are imported.

Those rockets that the North Koreans have been testing are a negligible threat to the US, thanks to the miles of ocean in between, but certainly are pushing their Japanese neighbors to panic.  I see a win-win deal, where Japan will benefit from those additional ships.   It should not take much more of Kim's "convincing" to get Japan to help pay for some of those new ships.       

Problem are the bases around North Korea that they can hit no problem. The issue isn't about him hitting the USA but the US sites around North Korea.

[chas0218]

On 3/18/2017 at 5:33 PM, wolc123 said:

History tends to repeat itself.  Prior to WWII, that exact same opinion was popular in the US.  Because of our isolationist policy back then, we came very close to loosing that war.  A forward presence in "trouble spots" has never been more important than it is today.   "Policing the world" is not such a bad idea, especially with a Commander-in-chief who has enough sense to get those "police" paid in part by those foreign powers who are enjoying their protection.  That is something that was sadly lacking under the previous administration. 

That is exactly what needs to happen, If you want our services they don't come cheap or free like in the past. Hold people accountable is what this presidency seems to be about and the way it should've been from the beginning.

[DirtTime]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:18 AM, chas0218 said:

Problem are the bases around North Korea that they can hit no problem. The issue isn't about him hitting the USA but the US sites around North Korea.

Ah! Paying attention! Nice.

 

The last missile test blew up in their farces. Literally! 

I keep using this term, "Probing". It's not always sending ground troops,

NK wants a war. They sat in the backseat for a few years while terrorist organizations did the dirty work. 

[chas0218]

I have been talking with a few colleagues this has come up a couple times and their response is always just take him out. The issue are the North Korea allies being Russia and China. Just wiping NK off the map i think is an option but this could spark a much bigger fire.

I forgot to mention the Korean war never stopped, no treaty, nothing so in regard to NK we are still at war with them.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[The_Field_Ager]

Starve him out makes more sense

[DirtTime]

NK is a blight on the world. But if we get to overly aggressive, it could turn on the USA. We need to stand our ground and not back down, but we also need to be smart about it. We aren't dealing with a rational man here, Jong-un had his half brother killed with chemicals. He's a monger! With strong allies.

[chas0218]

On 4/1/2017 at 11:58 PM, ....rob said:

NK is a blight on the world. But if we get to overly aggressive, it could turn on the USA. We need to stand our ground and not back down, but we also need to be smart about it. We aren't dealing with a rational man here, Jong-un had his half brother killed with chemicals. He's a monger! With strong allies.

And I think that is what he is banking on, his allies. Basically that little brat kid with 2 big brothers that everyone wants to kick the crap out of but don't want to mess with the big brothers.

 

On 4/1/2017 at 1:34 PM, Papist said:

Starve him out makes more sense

Honestly I think just one bullet from the end of a .50 cal should do it but the problem then lies who takes over?

[philoshop]

I think that once China's Xi speaks with President Trump NK will be a nation standing alone, and Kim will be the kid on the playground that no one wants to talk to. They have nothing that anyone needs or wants, and their ideology has been a proven failure over the last 100+ years.

[DirtTime]

I hope so. Trump said this morning that if China doesn't want to help that the US is prepared to deal with the issue alone.
Sanctioning NK doesn't do any good because they really don't produce anything the rest of the world needs.

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk