This 4 point not legal in the NY antler restricted zones.

[Rack Attack]

Grow,

I had a wise old man that I once worked with that had a great quote he used to say.

"Never argue with the ignorant, they'll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

With that said, I will never try to have a debate with you about AR as you will never change your stance no matter what information is presented to you.  If you really truly believe that there are a reasonable number of 4 and 6 point 3.5 year old deer and older out there than I really feel sorry for you...

[chas0218]

If it wasn't legal I wouldn't shoot it. Just seeing something like that maybe snapping a photo. I would say that I would be counting the points over and over in my head wondering if I missed one.

Edited March 30, 2017 by chas0218

[Buckmaster7600]

As we all know no laws are black and white. How many of us have driven by a cop doing 70 in a 65 and not gotten a ticket? Now I don't know for sure but I would have to imagine that there aren't many game wardens that would write you a ticket for killing either of those bucks. The object of AR's is to increase the age of bucks killed both of these bucks obviously have the age.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

20 hours ago, Rack Attack said:

there's an acceptation to any rule... I wonder if there was such an uproar when they proposed defining a buck as one having an antler that is at least 3" on one side?  I mean you know who are they to tell me what I can shoot!?

But you can still shoot one with less than a 3" antler and put it on a doe permit.

[ncountry]

22 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

As we all know no laws are black and white. How many of us have driven by a cop doing 70 in a 65 and not gotten a ticket? Now I don't know for sure but I would have to imagine that there aren't many game wardens that would write you a ticket for killing either of those bucks. The object of AR's is to increase the age of bucks killed both of these bucks obviously have the age.


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This may or may not be true.. If you shot one of these bucks  you would be following  the spirit of the law if not the rule.. Tbough, you couldn't be shocked or indignant if issued a ticket .

[rachunter]

17 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But you can still shoot one with less than a 3" antler and put it on a doe permit.

I never understood this rule. A bucks a buck. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Under the proposed rules for 8N, just down the road from our farm, this yearling would be legal

 

But this 3 1/2 wouldnt be

 

Before you guys say anything, both of these deer have most likely set foot in 8N, and we have deer that meet these categories every single year.Its not an oddity or anything like that. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

23 minutes ago, rachunter said:

I never understood this rule. A bucks a buck. 

But if the antler is short enough to be hidden easily by the ear, mistaken identity happens easily, especially by more casual hunters.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

33 minutes ago, rachunter said:

I never understood this rule. A bucks a buck. 

I have seen a half dozen or so of these deer over 36 years of deer hunting. I believe this was the intention of the 3" rule. I haven't seen a fawn buck with spikes over the 3" mark though. 

 

Edited March 30, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Trial153]

Some of you guys wouldn't know a bell curve if someone dropped one made out of stone on your freaking foot.

[growalot]

Rack Attack...He was a wise man, thus this will be my only response to any further post made by you..Thank you

Edited March 30, 2017 by growalot

[WNYBuckHunter]

18 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Some of you guys wouldn't know a bell curve if someone dropped one made out of stone on your freaking foot.

And you obviously dont know much about some of the areas where they are proposing to put these restrictions in place.

I realize that the majority of deer 2 1/2 and older have more than 4 points on one side, but I also know that a large percentage of yearling bucks in this area in particular have 4 or more points on one side, so it makes the AR they are proposing to be minimally effective at protecting the most desirable yearling bucks. A spread based restriction would be the only way to be truly effective here.

[growalot]

Quote

Some of you guys wouldn't know a bell curve if someone dropped one made out of stone on your freaking foot.

Quote

When Not to Use the Bell Curve

Even though there are countless applications of bell curves, it is not appropriate to use in all situations. Some statistical data sets, such as equipment failure or income distributions, have different shapes and are not symmetric. Other times there can be two or more modes, such as when several students do very well and several do very poorly on a test. These applications require the use of other curves that are defined differently than the bell curve. Knowledge about how the set of data in question was obtained can help to determine if a bell curve should be used to represent the data or not.

 

[Trial153]

And you obviously dont know much about some of the areas where they are proposing to put these restrictions in place.
I realize that the majority of deer 2 1/2 and older have more than 4 points on one side, but I also know that a large percentage of yearling bucks in this area in particular have 4 or more points on one side, so it makes the AR they are proposing to be minimally effective at protecting the most desirable yearling bucks. A spread based restriction would be the only way to be truly effective here.

You have 18k posts on this site and yet you haven't concluded that the baseline mentality of NY hunters is pretty low denominator? Do you read the idiocy that is spewed here? I agree a spread or better still a main beam measurement is a way more accurate indicator of age. however after reading some of the posts on this subject on here and other places, I think your lucky some of these people can count to four before they pull the trigger. Never mind explaining to them that generally speaking a 13" inside spread or 17" plus main beams are the minimum criteria for a legal buck.

[WNYBuckHunter]

11 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

 

You have 18k posts on this site and yet you haven't concluded that the baseline mentality of NY hunters is pretty low denominator? Do you read the idiocy that is spewed here? I agree a spread or better still a main beam measurement is a way more accurate indicator of age. however after reading some of the posts on this subject on here and other places, I think your lucky some of these people can count to four before they pull the trigger. Never mind explaining to them that generally speaking a 13" inside spread or 17" plus main beams are the minimum criteria for a legal buck.

Other states do it, NY can as well. The problem is, the people that are trying to push this garbage through, arent really concerned about herd health or the realities in some of these areas, they just want to make sure the neighbor doesnt shoot the young buck that they let walk the week before. They just use herd health, etc as leverage to justify pushing their hunting goals on everyone.

I will not agree with forcing people into things like that. If they are going to do something to really help the herd, they should do it the right way. Regardless, it wont affect my hunting, as I dont typically hunt in those areas. My zone was not included.

[growalot]

I have to call a peacock alert on this page...lol

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

The DEC needs to stop dealing out DMPs like its a Friday night poker game,, I cant tell you the numbers of button bucks Ive seen shot over the years that where assumed to be does along with the large numbers of does harvested by single hunters which in turn would of resulted in an increased population of 1 1/2 bucks the following year .. Not saying DMPS are not needed but the numbers of anterless tags that are issued by the DEC is careless IMO..

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

24 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

The DEC needs to stop dealing out DMPs like its a Friday night poker game,, I cant tell you the numbers of button bucks Ive seen shot over the years that where assumed to be does along with the large numbers of does harvested by single hunters which in turn would of resulted in an increased population of 1 1/2 bucks the following year .. Not saying DMPS are not needed but the numbers of anterless tags that are issued by the DEC is careless IMO..

 

They issue as many tags as they do because on average, only a low percentage of them are filled and reported.

[Buckmaster7600]

They issue as many tags as they do because on average, only a low percentage of them are filled and reported.

They have no idea how many are filled.


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[Rack Attack]

2 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But you can still shoot one with less than a 3" antler and put it on a doe permit.

Not in areas without DMP's...

[growalot]

WNYBH... You might want to mention to him, the either or tags people are issued.

[Rack Attack]

16 minutes ago, growalot said:

WNYBH... You might want to mention to him, the either or tags people are issued.

You are assuming someone has a Bow/muzzleloader permit.  The casual hunter you so often speak of is likely only a regular season hunter...

[WNYBuckHunter]

44 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

They have no idea how many are filled.


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They base it on a percentage that they figure arent reported. Its kind of a guessing game, Which is why mandatory reporting of all tags (filled or unfilled) should be put in place. No report, no tags the next season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

28 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

Not in areas without DMP's...

 

21 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

You are assuming someone has a Bow/muzzleloader permit.  The casual hunter you so often speak of is likely only a regular season hunter...

But they still have the opportunity if they have the tag for it. With these proposed ARs, there is zero opportunity, doesnt matter what tag you have. It takes away all choice, and shoves someone elses values down your throat.

[Rack Attack]

See that's the mentality I'll never understand.  Why would someone choose to shoot that buck with 1.5 inch points, even if they had a DMP?  The intent of DMP's is to take female deer to help with population control, not so someone can choose to shoot a micro buck just to say they shot a buck, or because "I'm going to shoot it cause it's legal to".  I just don't get it.