HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS

[gjs4]

Lots of good points here. Totally agree with Hurst only seeing numbers (though touting he is a Hunter was much like when John Kerry tried to the same result), they project the data the want and need to spin their end goals and of course their approach is only from 30,000 ft - local b:d ratios and other factors (even winter severity, living census, coyote numbers) are guess/lies at best. It was mighty nice of them to have last minute announcements on the when and where these were, limited time for q&a, quaint venues and ...oh yeah.. hold most of them during archery season....

They don't want your opinion, like with the SAFEACT, we all talk a big game but in NY we just get it jammed up our backsides. The DEC knows little to nothing about deer management from a hunters perspective, is fine with that if their uphill pressure is off and will keep throwing out glitter as long as our ranks are dumb enough to stay distracted by it. They're a failure to the herd and us as license buying consumers. Hell- this has been the only pro-deer hunting outreach attempt I can remember them even trying to do and that's with 45million$ annually in big game license sales.


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[wolc123]

 

9 hours ago, gjs4 said:

 The DEC knows little to nothing about deer management from a hunters perspective, is fine with that if their uphill pressure is off and will keep throwing out glitter as long as our ranks are dumb enough to stay distracted by it. They're a failure to the herd and us as license buying consumers. Hell- this has been the only pro-deer hunting outreach attempt I can remember them even trying to do and that's with 45million$ annually in big game license sales.


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You don't sound very happy with the deer hunting we have here in NY.   My opinion, as a "meat-hunter", is that the DEC has done a wonderful job of deer management.    The local deer population has been slightly above optimum at home (WMU 9F), and just about perfect in my away spot (WMU 6C) for at least the last 10 years.  Last season was my personal all-time best, for pounds of meat in the freezer, and that makes it tough for me to recommend any changes to current regs.   Good deer populations and liberal allocation of DMP tags (at home), has kept my family very well fed with that wonderful "organic" venison for many years.   I do need to drive carefully at home,  especially during the rut, to avoid hitting deer on my way to and from work, and I have to put in a little extra time and effort, to score up in the Adirondacks, but I enjoy all of it. 

I feel sorry for folks who live in other states and struggle to fill their freezers, including even those from "great" hunting states, like Alaska.   From watching some of those reality TV series from up there, it almost looks easier to "live off the land" down here.  The fishing we have is also spectacular and the DEC also deserves some of the credit for that.    One thing is for sure, I will never take for granted how good we have it as sportsman here in NY state.   

[gjs4]

I do not shoot little bucks, or does for that matter.

Glad you're a meat hunter. So am I. I butcher and prepare 6 deer a year for my family and would argue I can prepare better meals than most restaurants top top it off.

If you can justify the cost of venison being worthwhile you : must be on public assistance, retired with no other outlets/interest or as good with finances as you are with hunting mature deer. This state, nor any, is supposed to hand out food....hunting is recreation. Glad the DEC has appeased you and let the rest of us down. Guessing you've been at this for a long time too, right?


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[stubborn1VT]

16 minutes ago, gjs4 said:

I do not shoot little bucks, or does for that matter.

Glad you're a meat hunter. So am I. I butcher and prepare 6 deer a year for my family and would argue I can prepare better meals than most restaurants top top it off.

If you can justify the cost of venison being worthwhile you : must be on public assistance, retired with no other outlets/interest or as good with finances as you are with hunting mature deer. This state, nor any, is supposed to hand out food....hunting is recreation. Glad the DEC has appeased you and let the rest of us down. Guessing you've been at this for a long time too, right?


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What's so expensive about venison?  Maybe you should stick with being a butcher, world class chef and trophy hunter.  "The rest of us" will be just fine working and hunting.  

[wolc123]

My venison came in at less than $1.00 per pound last season, after subtracting all input costs.  We have not been able to produce beef that cheap in my lifetime, and you surely can not get any meat from the store cheaper.   I appreciate you and all the other trophy hunters.  The little bucks you pass might end up being the ones that help keep my own family's food costs down.    I hope you stick around in NY rather than moving off to some other state that might rank higher for the trophy deer (I hear there might be a few of those).   Keep up the good work.  

The thing I like best about deer hunting is that it is a very cost-effective method of providing healthy food for my family.   The fact that it is also a fun recreational activity is of secondary importance.   You are right about the venison being better than anything you can buy in a restaurant.  The button-buck roast that we had for lunch today was spectacular.  You don't know what your missing if you have never enjoyed one of those.      

47 minutes ago, gjs4 said:

I do not shoot little bucks
 

   

[diplomat019]

1 hour ago, gjs4 said:

 I can prepare better meals than most restaurants top top it off.



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Any pics of your meals?   Pics or it didn't happen 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

My venison came in at less than $1.00 per pound last season, after subtracting all input costs.  We have not been able to produce beef that cheap in my lifetime, and you surely can not get any meat from the store cheaper.   I appreciate you and all the other trophy hunters.  The little bucks you pass might end up being the ones that help keep my own family's food costs down.    I hope you stick around in NY rather than moving off to some other state that might rank higher for the trophy deer (I hear there might be a few of those).   Keep up the good work.  

The thing I like best about deer hunting is that it is a very cost-effective method of providing healthy food for my family.   The fact that it is also a fun recreational activity is of secondary importance.   You are right about the venison being better than anything you can buy in a restaurant.  The button-buck roast that we had for lunch today was spectacular.  You don't know what your missing if you have never enjoyed one of those.      

   

Button Buck Roast Huh?  That alone must have made up 1/4 of the whole what...20lbs you got out of that great harvest?

[wolc123]

7 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Button Buck Roast Huh?  That alone must have made up 1/4 of the whole what...20lbs you got out of that great harvest?

This was a pretty good sized one and it probably yielded 30-35 pounds of boneless meat after some careful trimming.  I put in some extra time on those, whenever I am blessed with one, making sure nothing goes to waste.  They bulk up pretty good around here, by opening day of gun season, on a heavy corn diet.  I can't claim full responsibility for this "great harvest" however, because a friend to whom I transferred one of my DMP's delivered the center-lung, broadside shot that destroyed very little of that prize-worthy meat.  He does not like venison though, and all he wanted to keep was one of the backstraps, to give to his step-father.  

I was able to kill this one's momma, later that afternoon, when she showed up at the gut-pile for milking time.  It does bother me a bit to kill mature does, knowing that they may be carrying two bucks.  Does that bother you at all?  I wonder why not since you seem so aghast at BB harvests?  Life does begin at conception after all. The deer population in the zone where I live is above optimum, so I do my part whenever an opportunity presents itself.   I always target the largest antlerless deer first, and that has resulted in 25% button bucks thru the years.   I will admit that I love it when that happens because there is absolutely no better eating than those "fatted calves".   To me, and my wife especially, that is cause for celebration.  If you or anyone is heart-broken after mistakingly killing one, feel free to shoot me a pm and we will take your "problem" off your hands for you.  Whatever you do, don't leave the liver in the woods.

You seem to have a real issue with small buck harvests and I want you to know that I appreciate that.   Those little bucks you pass may very well be what provides my family with some fine-eating.  Also, I am sorry if some of the smaller bucks that we harvest never get to make it onto your trophy wall.  Good luck this season, and I hope you get the big antlered one(s) you are after.             

Edited April 23, 2017 by wolc123

[Four Season Whitetail's]

22 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

This was a pretty good sized one and it probably yielded 30-35 pounds of boneless meat after some careful trimming.  I put in some extra time on those, whenever I am blessed with one, making sure nothing goes to waste.  They bulk up pretty good around here, by opening day of gun season, on a heavy corn diet.  I can't claim full responsibility for this "great harvest" however, because a friend to whom I transferred one of my DMP's delivered the center-lung, broadside shot that destroyed very little of that prize-worthy meat.  He does not like venison though, and all he wanted to keep was one of the backstraps, to give to his step-father.  

I was able to kill this one's momma, later that afternoon, when she showed up at the gut-pile for milking time.  It does bother me a bit to kill mature does, knowing that they may be carrying two bucks.  Does that bother you at all?  I wonder why not since you seem so aghast at BB harvests?  Life does begin at conception after all. The deer population in the zone where I live is above optimum, so I do my part whenever an opportunity presents itself.   I always target the largest antlerless deer first, and that has resulted in 25% button bucks thru the years.   I will admit that I love it when that happens because there is absolutely no better eating than those "fatted calves".   To me, and my wife especially, that is cause for celebration.  If you or anyone is heart-broken after mistakingly killing one, feel free to shoot me a pm and we will take your "problem" off your hands for you.  Whatever you do, don't leave the liver in the woods.

You seem to have a real issue with small buck harvests and I want you to know that I appreciate that.   Those little bucks you pass may very well be what provides my family with some fine-eating.  Also, I am sorry if some of the smaller bucks that we harvest never get to make it onto your trophy wall.  Good luck this season, and I hope you get the big antlered one(s) you are after.             

Yeah....That's It.   Wow! God bless us all.  I wonder if there is anything in that good book somewhere written like, Thou shalt not Kill babies?

[wolc123]

Thanks for bringing up God and the Bible.   That is the best reference to use in order to determine why man should hunt.   No where does it mention "for antlers", "for sport" or "for recreation".    If any of those is your primary reason for hunting, that is ok.  Jesus Christ died for all sinners, you may be forgiven.  No matter what wrongs you have committed, there is always hope for you.     

He does specifically point out that man should eat deer (Deuteronomy 14:5), and also the Father, who represents God in the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32) kills the fatted calf to celebrate his son's return.   "Thou shall not kill" is one of the commandments, but that means humans, not animals.   As it is written, God condones the killing of animals, and designed man for that task, by placing our eyes in front and giving us canine teeth.     

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, wolc123 said:

Thanks for bringing up God and the Bible.   That is the best reference to use in order to determine why man should hunt.   No where does it mention "for antlers", "for sport" or "for recreation".    If any of those is your primary reason for hunting, that is ok.  Jesus Christ died for all sinners, you may be forgiven.  No matter what wrongs you have committed, there is always hope for you.     

He does specifically point out that man should eat deer (Deuteronomy 14:5), and also the Father, who represents God in the story of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32) kills the fatted calf to celebrate his son's return.   "Thou shall not kill" is one of the commandments, but that means humans, not animals.   As it is written, God condones the killing of animals, and designed man for that task, by placing our eyes in front and giving us canine teeth.     

 

Power Power Wonder Working Power In The Blood Of The (Baby Buck) Lamb.... Sing along with me!  The Power, The Power, The Wonder Working Power In The Blood Of The (Baby Buck) Lamb...One More Time.....With Feeling!

[gjs4]

Based on the master hunter replies- either you're (again) retired or not considering work hours missed that could buy food.

Pics or it didn't happen? What are you, 10? Should I ask your wife how she delivered? Pics or it didn't happen. Thanks for proving my points with your actions. Hope there wasn't milk left in the windpipe of the roast you just ate.


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[Nomad]

I'm not retired , yet I can hunt about 23 days a month without taking time off .

Not everyone works a day job , 5 days a week , a ton of my neighbors work from home and set their own hours . My hunting partner owns his own company which employs about 100 folks , he leaves work at 2:30 and hunts every afternoon .

He grew up hunting , trapping and fishing for food. For a number of years they lived in a basement . By that I mean that's all that was built,a basement with  a floor over it. 

Today he says , " if I gotta hunt for food, I got bigger problems , then the size of my deer ."

[diplomat019]

1 hour ago, gjs4 said:

Based on the master hunter replies- either you're (again) retired or not considering work hours missed that could buy food.

Pics or it didn't happen? What are you, 10? Should I ask your wife how she delivered? Pics or it didn't happen. Thanks for proving my points with your actions. Hope there wasn't milk left in the windpipe of the roast you just ate.


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Lets see some of these dishes.  

[Larry]

here is some more stuff

sdmbuckmgmtrpt2015.pdf

[chas0218]

On 4/22/2017 at 9:33 PM, diplomat019 said:

Any pics of your meals?   Pics or it didn't happen 

I have to agree with gjs4, my food seems to taste much better than restaurants I have visited not to mention a lot less toilet time afterwards.

 

On 4/23/2017 at 0:12 AM, Four Season Whitetails said:

Button Buck Roast Huh?  That alone must have made up 1/4 of the whole what...20lbs you got out of that great harvest?

Its the whole hind quarters in the crock pot!

[dbHunterNY]

3 hours ago, Larry said:

here is some more stuff

sdmbuckmgmtrpt2015.pdf

some will lose interest with all the numbers unfortunately.  it's good stuff you're posting though.  so what are some of your thoughts about that link?  i got chuckles from some of it.  a lot of it was good.  shows a one size fits all approach won't work.  i get cost has to be factored in but i shake my head when things are weighted such that costs of public education is a bad thing, especially when your management is largely driven where ever public will takes it.  also i have a decent handle on the dilemma but think it's ridiculous to pad points for no change because you have a current system that isn't flexible to handle proposed changes you're considering.  i think what people really want to know is from the list of changes moving forward that DEC considers feasible which one has DEC determined best for their area?

regardless, i think nothing is a substitute for public education/outreach, which should go along with any decision moving forward.  it worries me DEC doesn't really have any set budget or anything for this type of education and outreach.  with state entities the first thing that gets axed from resources and funding is something that doesn't have a budget and/or doesn't have a plan.

[dbHunterNY]

gotta love the crock pot button buck discussion.  lol

i will say if i was paying attention to dollar per pound of meat, yes venison can be cheaper.  however, knowing i only get so many tags to fill or have "quotas" for certain properties, i'm hard pressed fill a tag with a button buck that yields half the meat.  i'm no executive chef but still cook well enough the tenderness of a fawn with milk on its whiskers still doesn't justify not filling any tag with an adult deer.  button buck or doe fawn, makes no difference.  if that's the only opportunity that presents itself as the season draws near then so be it, i get it. last time i processed a button buck though i said i'd never do it again.  my freezer has been full ever since.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 4/21/2017 at 8:17 AM, Buckstopshere said:

I hate to admit that I have known hunters who got DMU permits and refused to use them. These guys were stubborn and wanted to get them so that nobody else could use them. These hunters are firmly against shooting does, believing that the more does, the more bucks produced for them to shoot and also the more does would bring in bucks to their hunting property during the rut. Hunting brings out the worst and the best in people. In this case, the worst...greed. This was back when the DMU permit did not cost any more.  But it probably still goes on with those guys as a $10 fee does not even make them blink.

Happens alot, and guys wonder why the DMP sucess rate is so low, and DEC has to hand them out like candy.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 4/23/2017 at 7:38 AM, wolc123 said:

This was a pretty good sized one and it probably yielded 30-35 pounds of boneless meat after some careful trimming.  I put in some extra time on those, whenever I am blessed with one, making sure nothing goes to waste.  They bulk up pretty good around here, by opening day of gun season, on a heavy corn diet.  I can't claim full responsibility for this "great harvest" however, because a friend to whom I transferred one of my DMP's delivered the center-lung, broadside shot that destroyed very little of that prize-worthy meat.  He does not like venison though, and all he wanted to keep was one of the backstraps, to give to his step-father.  

I was able to kill this one's momma, later that afternoon, when she showed up at the gut-pile for milking time.  It does bother me a bit to kill mature does, knowing that they may be carrying two bucks.  Does that bother you at all?  I wonder why not since you seem so aghast at BB harvests?  Life does begin at conception after all. The deer population in the zone where I live is above optimum, so I do my part whenever an opportunity presents itself.   I always target the largest antlerless deer first, and that has resulted in 25% button bucks thru the years.   I will admit that I love it when that happens because there is absolutely no better eating than those "fatted calves".   To me, and my wife especially, that is cause for celebration.  If you or anyone is heart-broken after mistakingly killing one, feel free to shoot me a pm and we will take your "problem" off your hands for you.  Whatever you do, don't leave the liver in the woods.

You seem to have a real issue with small buck harvests and I want you to know that I appreciate that.   Those little bucks you pass may very well be what provides my family with some fine-eating.  Also, I am sorry if some of the smaller bucks that we harvest never get to make it onto your trophy wall.  Good luck this season, and I hope you get the big antlered one(s) you are after.             

Did you say she showed up at the gut pile at milking time? Were you hunting during the summer or something? Do you think does and fawns meet up at specific times at specific places so they can feed? Do you think that a doe can recognize its fawns gut pile? LMAO, you come up with some of the most unknowledgable off the wall nonsense Ive ever read on the internet.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

gotta love the crock pot button buck discussion.  lol

i will say if i was paying attention to dollar per pound of meat, yes venison can be cheaper.  however, knowing i only get so many tags to fill or have "quotas" for certain properties, i'm hard pressed fill a tag with a button buck that yields half the meat.  i'm no executive chef but still cook well enough the tenderness of a fawn with milk on its whiskers still doesn't justify not filling any tag with an adult deer.  button buck or doe fawn, makes no difference.  if that's the only opportunity that presents itself as the season draws near then so be it, i get it. last time i processed a button buck though i said i'd never do it again.  my freezer has been full ever since.

The guys I hunt with certainly don't target them but I have seen a few taken on doe permits in recent years. Single deer shot as a doe. I will say that we did those two hind quarters, whole, on a spit during the summer. kept it spinning and kept trimming it of during the day as we drank and hung out at a party. It was some damned fine eats. 

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

The guys I hunt with certainly don't target them but I have seen a few taken on doe permits in recent years. Single deer shot as a doe. I will say that we did those two hind quarters, whole, on a spit during the summer. kept it spinning and kept trimming it of during the day as we drank and hung out at a party. It was some damned fine eats. 

hunters don't really target them around here either.  our co-op actually takes very few considering our antlerless harvest numbers that are 19% of the DEC's expected total antlerless take for the WMU we're in.  many hunters out this way even on the co-op don't always get a DMAP or DMP tag still.  that means 3 over the counter tags that everybody gets and no more.  that is if you can fill them given limitations on what season each can be used.  each year i actually pass doe to allow other hunters on the property to fill part of the quota too.  some only gun hunt. so if a few of us didn't have the restraint the quota would be met before they even stepped foot in the woods.  no doubt button bucks taste good.  maybe it'd be different if antlerless tags were more plentiful here.

[stubborn1VT]

I'm far from retired, and not on welfare.  I run my own company, and set aside time to deer hunt.  I make my money in the spring and summer.  I don't think that lost wages apply.

I have only shot 2 deer that I would consider small, both with a bow.  I don't get the anger toward people who chose to shoot small deer.  It's their tag, and in some places there are too many deer.  Food is food.  Who are you to tell somebody how to hunt?  I will never understand it.  

I have a friend who shoots small deer every year, and I'm not sure it's necessary, I wouldn't say a word.  They eat every bit of the deer he kills.  I don't understand guys that hunt for inches of antler either, but if that's what they're into, go for it.  I guess I don't see the point in pissing all over another hunter for their choices.  If they do it safely, legally and ethically (we can hope) then that' good enough for me.

[Larry]

Like any other addiction there are guys that have lost everything and will do anything to get their fix. They have lost their way and have forgotten what hunting is all about and god help anyone or thing that gets in their way of get their next fix.