Starting an Outfitting Bussiness

[Hookhunter20]

Hey guys,

It's always been a dream of mine to someday run an outfit. I know it's no walk in the park to start up a bussiness, espically in a state like NY but I was wondering if anyone on here has any information and tips they wouldn't mind sharing. 

[BizCT]

Hey guys,
It's always been a dream of mine to someday run an outfit. I know it's no walk in the park to start up a bussiness, espically in a state like NY but I was wondering if anyone on here has any information and tips they wouldn't mind sharing. 

Ton of info on this NY site. http://www.nysoga.org/guidelicense.html

If I remember correctly, they have a 3-4 day event once a year where u can take all your tests and get certified.


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[sailinghudson25]

A job is a great way to ruin a hobby. ....

Did pheasant hunt guiding.....   dangerous what a lot of money, a superiority complex, and no firearm training can produce. ....

 

Mysrlf nor my wire haired griffin spend any more effort at it anymore.

Now a fishing guide, maybe.  Hunting of any sort no way for me.

[BigVal]

I help on a charter boat from time to time with a buddy of mine, that's alot of fun I think hunting guide would be cool but good point I could see stupidity getting old and dangerous.

[Adkhunter1590]

Depends on what your ambitions are. How big of an outfit are you thinking of running? How many hunters per year do you hope to take in is what you need to really consider. That number alone will dictate how much land you need, how much equipment, insurance costs, and most importantly, how much can you get away with charging to keep people coming back. Most successful outfits stay in business based on their return clients. Advertising costs money that may never net you any return. You need to produce quality results to make guys want to return year after year. Unfortunately, this is something that will be difficult to do in NY. We don't have the quality deer Kansas or Illinois does, so you'll be hard pressed to get a lot of guy wanting to return for scrub bucks, not to mention you'll never be able to charge a large amount of money per hunt because of it.

I was a guide in Kansas and Illinois and worked for a small outfit and a large one, they both had different ways of doing things but both relied heavily on repeat customers. I have thought many times over about starting an outfit of my own. But with my own personal experience, I couldn't pull it off in this state without a massive amount of money to invest in huge amounts of land. To really do it right you'd have to own a few thousand acres and take several years of correct management to produce some good bucks on a yearly basis. Even then it wouldn't be enough most likely.

You could do some small time guiding but it wouldn't make you any money in the end.

Here's on figure to toss around in your head. The place I worked in Kansas leased 17,000 acres of land. He sold hunts to around 60-90 hunters per fall give or take a few. That's roughly 280-180 acres of land per hunter. It's vital to not over hunt your land or your never going to produce quality hunts. The place I worked for in Illinois gave each guide their own several hundred acre farms to guide the entire season on. My farm was 480 acres. I ran 2-3 guys per week from middle of oct through early December. That farm was absolutely beat to death by the end of the season. It was over hunted by early November. This is something you want to avoid and is a big reason why I never worked for that outfit again. They ran hunters through there to boost profits with little regard for the hunting experience.

Ask all the questions you can think of, I'm sure I can help on most all of them.

[DirtTime]

Make sure you get top of the line insurance! In this day and age some people will sue your a$$ off if they so much as get a splinter on your property.

[Hookhunter20]

41 minutes ago, Adkhunter1590 said:

Depends on what your ambitions are. How big of an outfit are you thinking of running? How many hunters per year do you hope to take in is what you need to really consider. That number alone will dictate how much land you need, how much equipment, insurance costs, and most importantly, how much can you get away with charging to keep people coming back. Most successful outfits stay in business based on their return clients. Advertising costs money that may never net you any return. You need to produce quality results to make guys want to return year after year. Unfortunately, this is something that will be difficult to do in NY. We don't have the quality deer Kansas or Illinois does, so you'll be hard pressed to get a lot of guy wanting to return for scrub bucks, not to mention you'll never be able to charge a large amount of money per hunt because of it.

I was a guide in Kansas and Illinois and worked for a small outfit and a large one, they both had different ways of doing things but both relied heavily on repeat customers. I have thought many times over about starting an outfit of my own. But with my own personal experience, I couldn't pull it off in this state without a massive amount of money to invest in huge amounts of land. To really do it right you'd have to own a few thousand acres and take several years of correct management to produce some good bucks on a yearly basis. Even then it wouldn't be enough most likely.

You could do some small time guiding but it wouldn't make you any money in the end.

Here's on figure to toss around in your head. The place I worked in Kansas leased 17,000 acres of land. He sold hunts to around 60-90 hunters per fall give or take a few. That's roughly 280-180 acres of land per hunter. It's vital to not over hunt your land or your never going to produce quality hunts. The place I worked for in Illinois gave each guide their own several hundred acre farms to guide the entire season on. My farm was 480 acres. I ran 2-3 guys per week from middle of oct through early December. That farm was absolutely beat to death by the end of the season. It was over hunted by early November. This is something you want to avoid and is a big reason why I never worked for that outfit again. They ran hunters through there to boost profits with little regard for the hunting experience.

Ask all the questions you can think of, I'm sure I can help on most all of them.

These are the issues with whitetail guiding that I was thinking a lot about. Right now I have a 90 acre and a 200 acre piece and obviously would have to get a handful of leases in the surrounding area. The area I would want to run it out of is still very agricultural and produces good bucks but you right there we're no Illinois or Kansas. I would love to do it but in reality it seems like a reach. What I was really thinking hard about was running mostly turkey hunts and maybe run some deer hunts here and there but it would be more of a turkey and small game thing, especially in the beginning stages. 

[Adkhunter1590]

These are the issues with whitetail guiding that I was thinking a lot about. Right now I have a 90 acre and a 200 acre piece and obviously would have to get a handful of leases in the surrounding area. The area I would want to run it out of is still very agricultural and produces good bucks but you right there we're no Illinois or Kansas. I would love to do it but in reality it seems like a reach. What I was really thinking hard about was running mostly turkey hunts and maybe run some deer hunts here and there but it would be more of a turkey and small game thing, especially in the beginning stages. 

You could be a lot more successful with turkey hunts for sure. Especially in areas with high turkey numbers. Less land needed, and even state public land is just as good for turkey a lot of the time.

Land is really the biggest deal breaker when it comes to deer. Like you said, you'd need to get a handful of other leases in the area. It would almost be impossible to get enough land close enough to each other. Because remember, unless you have employees(guides), you will have to drop each guy off at their stands by yourself. If your land is spread 20 mins apart, your gonna be racing the sun rise to get guys up in trees. I've been there done that, it's no fun lol. Not to mention the cost of leases here in Ny is crazy high. To make a profit you'd have to more than likely over hunt the property, which isn't good for anyone.

The most likely way to make a deer hunting outfit successful here would be is if your family owned a very large farm, so the land was already paid for and in your control. In conjunction with regular farming, you could run deer hunts in the fall to help supplement your income, but even then it wouldn't be something that could be relied on solely.

If this is something your looking to do on the small scale, I'd suggest catering your outfit to a particular group of hunters such as youth and father/son groups. Neither one will be geared for trophy bucks that you can't produce on a yearly basis so expectations will be minimal. Kids are just as happy to shoot does most of the time. Advertise and set yourself up as a place where new hunters, youths and parents looking to get their kids hunting for the first time in a safe relaxing environment can come to. You'll be limited to the amount of people you can have just on acreage size, might as well save yourself the headache of listening to Joe Blow complain he hasn't seen 20 pope and youngs on his first day and cater towards a kid who will be the happiest person in the world to shoot a basket rack 8 point.

[Doc]

I always wondered what it would be like to turn my favorite pastime into my sole resource for putting food on the table and a roof overhead. Would it begin to lose it's luster. would it become a "job". It would be interesting to ask some of these TV hunter-heroes that so often run afoul of the law, if the pressures of having to produce didn't drive them to break laws and bend rules. Does it change the activity and sour some of what the original attraction was. I don't know. I've never tried it, but it does make me curious when you turn something that you did because you enjoyed it into something you do because you have to. 

[Dinsdale]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

I always wondered what it would be like to turn my favorite pastime into my sole resource for putting food on the table and a roof overhead. Would it begin to lose it's luster. would it become a "job". It would be interesting to ask some of these TV hunter-heroes that so often run afoul of the law, if the pressures of having to produce didn't drive them to break laws and bend rules. Does it change the activity and sour some of what the original attraction was. I don't know. I've never tried it, but it does make me curious when you turn something that you did because you enjoyed it into something you do because you have to. 

This was my opening paragraph in a trip report I did for a hunt on another forum;

This would be my 4th trip to Africa (South Africa, Namibia, and Zimbabwe) and my 8th outfitter/PH used there and have been rather fortunate in being able to take some very good trophies along the way. I would guess I have used maybe 20 outfitters/PH/guides between Africa and the rest of the world hunting and fishing and can say although I have never had a horrible experience; there’s maybe a handful I would use again no questions asked….KMG and Marius is one of them.
 

Just in my experience; all the top operators; and they have been in the business from 15-40 years; are still passionate about the total experience of hunting; although they may not do a lot personally as some like the African guys may hunt 8 months a year. They also happen to have the business acumen to run a total program from hiring proper help to bookings.

The next guys tend to not be able to run a business as well; and some seem to be just a tad burned out. Any business is hard to run when there are financial pressures.

The only 2 guys I'm not fond of were a$$hats who never cared to begin with and only wanted the money. No coincidence they were outfits I did little research on and were based on "friends" recommendations, something I no longer listen too. The more I have booked the better the operations have been as you can get a feel where folks are at given a little face to face time.

 

[sodfather]

Couple lines of advice. There is a big difference between running a business and doing what ya love. On the other side, find something ya love to do that makes ya money and you feel like ya never worked a day in your life..Atleast for the 40hrs of the week ..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You can make great money on whitetails if done right. Biggest thing in Ny is to only boast on the size of bucks most hunters will harvest. You put guys in Ny on 120-150in bucks and you will have repeat hunters. Keep it small and keep it real.  

[gjs4]

You can make great money on whitetails if done right. Biggest thing in Ny is to only boast on the size of bucks most hunters will harvest. You put guys in Ny on 120-150in bucks and you will have repeat hunters. Keep it small and keep it real.  

If you can easily and consistently take 140s&150s in NY get into the hunting industry- it pays better.

Ny hunters tend to be whiney "don't think about the long run out it in my hand kind of folks..... that will be exponentially exacerbated when they pay you. At one point, before it was cool, a buddy and I did a few small habitat projects for folks. Mind blown. I paid you to set this up, I want a Booner standing here despite killing 5 other deer, a kid racing dirt bikes, my 9 dogs running around and having dropped trou upwind of the bedding area. Come on man- this is the perfect 11 acres! Lol.


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