Carrying Crossbow/compound bow simultaneously

[ApexerER]

17 hours ago, chrisw said:

He told me that the full gamut of rules has not been detailed in the hunting regulations guide

Then how can it be illegal?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Then enlighten us.

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Crossbow season starts at a different time than firearms, setback distances are different, etc etc etc. The are not essentially treated as a firearm, and the seasons are different.

[chas0218]

6 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Thats not correct either

 

5 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Then enlighten us.

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Holy crap did you 2 read my post? It is from the regs copied and pasted word for word! There is no what if's or buts. It is what it is!

Lock this thing up already!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, chrisw said:

It does not say "a crossbow is a firearm" it says it essentially treats them as a firearm, IE: same type rules/seasons apply.

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I really really get where you guys are coming from, I do.  I can also see and understand the the responses you got.  I just have an issue with the arbitrary nature of it and how it is assumed hunters are up to no good as a default. If one of us walked into the woods today with a vertical bow there would be no questions (legal for small game, turkey and deer). If we walked into the woods today with a crossbow there would be no questions (legal for turkey and small game). both legal implements for respective open seasons.  Now they are saying if you were to walk in with both in hand it would be a violation. 

[chrisw]

 
Crossbow season starts at a different time than firearms, setback distances are different, etc etc etc. The are not essentially treated as a firearm, and the seasons are different.

Obviously, again, they are not firearms, they use some of the same regulations for crossbow as muzzleloader, longer setback than standard archery equipment, the need for a muzzle loading tag to use a crossbow, crossbows are illegal to accompany you in the "deer" stand until crossbow deer opens (obviously the same as firearms/muzzleloader).

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[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I really really get where you guys are coming from, I do.  I can also see and understand the the responses you got.  I just have an issue with the arbitrary nature of it and how it is assumed hunters are up to no good as a default. If one of us walked into the woods today with a vertical bow there would be no questions (legal for small game, turkey and deer). If we walked into the woods today with a crossbow there would be no questions (legal for turkey and small game). both legal implements for respective open seasons.  Now they are saying if you were to walk in with both in hand it would be a violation. 

It used to be innocent until proven guilty, I think it is the other way around nowadays. I can also see where DEC is doing it to keep poachers from playing the loophole game and being able to ticket them for wrong doing. I agree 100% with the law it keeps honest people honest (kind of like a lock) there are people that don't care and will do what they want and if caught will pay the price.

Edited October 24, 2017 by chas0218

[growalot]

17 hours ago, growalot said:

I just wanted to let you know that is going to take a little more time to get answers to you about carrying more than one weapon while hunting. As I said on the phone, it is not a simply question and it involves looking a number of different laws and regulations. One person who I need to talk to is out of the office for a few days, so I will get an answer to you as soon as I can.

Not so simple which is why the DEC wrote the above. Now I specifically asked is it legal to carry a cross bow into the woods to hunt turkey small game and coyote with a cross bow during their open seasons,"YES",  I asked even though they are open now during bow season, "yes" Is it legal to carry 2 weapons in the field to hunt 2 different species..." yes as long as the weapon is legal for both species."

Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all thr regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

Now per the regulation book: note only crossbow stipulation is northern zone ,specifically with dogs. this is for turkey:

Quote

You may hunt with a bow or crossbow.

• You may not hunt turkey with a crossbow in the fall in the Northern Zone if you are using dogs.

now small game and coyotes :

Quote

A bow or crossbow may be used to hunt small game. A crossbow may not be used in Westchester or Suffolk counties. See Crossbow Hunting for additional information.

Note ,the only stipulation is northern zone with dogs: But if you go read the regs there are all kinds of actual firearm regulations/restrictions, none other then with dogs for the crossbow they are NOT mentioned WITH firearms

Quote

You may hunt furbearers using a handgun, shotgun, rifle, bow, or crossbow. All laws pertaining to the use of firearms apply.

Crossbows may not be used while hunting with a dog for any small game, except for coyotes, in the Northern Zone.

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by growalot

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

 

 

Holy crap did you 2 read my post? It is from the regs copied and pasted word for word! There is no what if's or buts. It is what it is!

Lock this thing up already!

stop reading it if you dont like it lol

[chas0218]

4 minutes ago, growalot said:

Not so simple which is why the DEC wrote the above. Now I specifically asked is it legal to carry a cross bow into the woods to hunt turkey small game and coyote with a cross bow during their open seasons,"YES",  I asked even though they are open now during bow season, "yes" Is it leaga to carry 2 weapons in the field to hunt 2 different species..." yes as long as the weapon is legal for both species."

Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all thr regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

Now per the regulation book: note only crossbow stipulation is northern zone ,specifically with dogs. this is for turkey:

now small game and coyotes :

Note ,the only stipulation is northern zone with dogs: But if you go read the regs there are all kinds of actual firearm regulations/restrictions non other then with dogs for the crossbow they are NOT mentioned WITH firearms

 

But wasn't your argument about taking both into the field while bowhunting before crossbow is open for deer? No one is arguing the fact that when both are legal for the game in question because well there is no argument it's obvious the answer. The argument was started over taking a crossbow and bow into the field while it was bow only. 

[growalot]

PS If the DEC had any ...hhhmmm common sense they would have this entire thread copied and thoroughly reviewed, no matter what the out come of my inquiry ,for any future regulations to be written. If this is not a lesson in how hunters interpret what is written I do not know what would be.

Edited October 24, 2017 by growalot

[WNYBuckHunter]

8 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Obviously, again, they are not firearms, they use some of the same regulations for crossbow as muzzleloader, longer setback than standard archery equipment, the need for a muzzle loading tag to use a crossbow, crossbows are illegal to accompany you in the "deer" stand until crossbow deer opens (obviously the same as firearms/muzzleloader).

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Come on man, I was just saying that what you said is not accurate, and it wasnt. Also, I can hunt turkeys with a crossbow from a treestand if I want to. Nothing illegal about it.

I will say that after reading what grow originally said in the other thread, what she was asking about would be illegal.

[chrisw]

 

"yes as long as the weapon is legal for BOTH species" which it's not. You can get the answer you want if you're wording it oddly enough as to not give you're full intent.

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[chas0218]

1 minute ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

stop reading it if you dont like it lol

haha I don't mind reading it but you guys can't argue the law as laid out by DEC. People can't interpret the law as they see fit, if they do they will be in a world of shock when they are ticketed/arrested.

[chrisw]

Come on man, I was just saying that what you said is not accurate, and it wasnt. Also, I can hunt turkeys with a crossbow from a treestand if I want to. Nothing illegal about it.
I will say that after reading what grow originally said in the other thread, what she was asking about would be illegal.

I'm in aggreance. But what grow was doing is illegal. There seems to be shady areas to this but not in her specific case.

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[WNYBuckHunter]

10 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

It used to be innocent until proven guilty, I think it is the other way around nowadays. I can also see where DEC is doing it to keep poachers from playing the loophole game and being able to ticket them for wrong doing. I agree 100% with the law it keeps honest people honest (kind of like a lock) there are people that don't care and will do what they want and if caught will pay the price.

No, its still the same. a LEO can give you a ticket for whatever he or she feels is justifiable. Its not an automatic guilty or a sentence, thats what court is there for. The choice is yours on how much money and/or time you are willing to put forth to fight said ticket.

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

haha I don't mind reading it but you guys can't argue the law as laid out by DEC. People can't interpret the law as they see fit, if they do they will be in a world of shock when they are ticketed/arrested.

Im not arguing anything. What Chris said in that particular post was wrong. Good freaking lord.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

haha I don't mind reading it but you guys can't argue the law as laid out by DEC. People can't interpret the law as they see fit, if they do they will be in a world of shock when they are ticketed/arrested.

You are reading it as you see fit. A crossbow is not a firearm by any legal definition in NY

[chas0218]

1 minute ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Im not arguing anything. What Chris said in that particular post was wrong. Good freaking lord.

Sorry I missed that, Chris was the one saying it wasn't a firearm or something of the sort.

[growalot]

OK So didn't quit pick up on that..lets try again 

Quote

yes as long as the weapon is legal for both species." Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all the regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

Yes it was the question and it was a 30 min or so conversation, probably longer where I told them the EXACT reason I was asking that per the book and lack of anything contrary I had carried both..I stated that I am very proficient with the compound but a pie plate target on a deer is very very different than a base ball sized target on a turkey at 30 yards. I have both licenses both seasons are open both implements are legal but it was questioned and I did extensive searches and there is absolutely nothing stating in writing that it is not legal.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

If one of us walked into the woods today with a vertical bow there would be no questions (legal for small game, turkey and deer). If we walked into the woods today with a crossbow there would be no questions (legal for turkey and small game). both legal implements for respective open seasons.  Now they are saying if you were to walk in with both in hand it would be a violation. 

 

I agree that once you put an broadhead into ta deer you are opening yourself up to a host of possibilities but I can't see how the the act of possession would result in a ticket. 

[Rebel Darling]

For what it's worth, here are DEC's regulations on crossbows:

https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/I9a26bf58212611e1b7120000845b8d3e?viewType=FullText&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

 

[Rebel Darling]

There's also this:

https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/Ife3eaa81fcb711e1a2f20000845b8d3e?originationContext=Search+Result&listSource=Search&viewType=FullText&navigationPath=Search%2fv3%2fsearch%2fresults%2fnavigation%2fi0ad62d2c0000015f4eaaf322e300e7fe%3fstartIndex%3d1%26Nav%3dNYREGULATION_PUBLICVIEW%26contextData%3d(sc.Default)&rank=2&list=NYREGULATION_PUBLICVIEW&transitionType=SearchItem&contextData=(sc.Search)&t_querytext=crossbow&t_Method=WIN

[ApexerER]

8 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

Not to ignite the heated Xbow debate... But you can thank your elected officials in Albany for creating the current legislation defining Xbow seasons, allowed weapon use for specific small/big game, licenses required and harvest reporting. FUBAR government workings at its' worst!

Stay at home Nomad hit the nail on the head! This is not the 1st discussion on this forum about how ECOs interpret DEC laws and how it varies per the individual ECO and situation. Assuming this is where common sense law might prevail.

The OP's initial post is very similar to driving 3-5mph over the speed limit. You do this knowing you're getting into a grey area and there may be consequences. Will you get stopped and ticketed? Generally not, but you may because it is the letter of the law and dependent on the LEO's mood at the time. Not to mention your demeanor towards the officer at the time of the traffic stop. Can you fight this in court? Sure, but there you're also at the mercy of the town justice's opinion of the situation. So.....

I disagree with this....Driving one MPH over the speed limit is against the law....The law is black and white. Whether or not you get a ticket for it is completely different.  What we are debating is not black and white which is creating the question in the first place.

[growalot]

That is the crutch of it Culver...though I find it funny some think I was trying to do something shady...If I were going to do something shady I would not walk through the woods in the dark (at closing in on 60) "lugging" a compound in one had a hip quiver with 2 arrows and 3 bolts,one with a field point. Plus a crossbow over my back and a fanny pack.  Now if I were that type of person I would head out in the dark with a crossbow legal, and if I were that type shoot a deer...walk away with the crossbow go home switch up and drag the deer out. If nothing else..I am a proficient person when it comes to thinking things out..I WOULD NOT POST PICS OF BOTH WEAPONS...LOL

[chrisw]

OK So didn't quit pick up on that..lets try again 

yes as long as the weapon is legal for both species." Now here is where the conversation went on a search : I will need written law stating that...hesitation...It is no where in the book. " Well not all the regulations are in the book it must be in the written laws and I will need to search".

Yes it was the question and it was a 30 min or so conversation, probably longer where I told them the EXACT reason I was asking that per the book and lack of anything contrary I had carried both..I stated that I am very proficient with the compound but a pie plate target on a deer is very very different than a base ball sized target on a turkey at 30 yards. I have both licenses both seasons are open both implements are legal but it was questioned and I did extensive searches and there is absolutely nothing stating in writing that it is not legal.
Grow, what you're failing to see is they said you can take two different implements into the woods as long as both implements are legal to take both species with. Now let's look at this... You can take a deer and a turkey with your compound LEGALLY, you can take a turkey with your Crossbow legally but not a deer, therefore one of the weapons you are in possession of is not legal for both deer and turkey therefore making it illegal to have in your situation.

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