Carrying Crossbow/compound bow simultaneously

[BizCT]

What about this scenario today:

In rifle county, you get into the woods at 2am with a rifle, crossbow, and compound bow. You plan to hunt yotes from 2am - sunrise with the rifle and e-caller. Then at sunrise you are deer hunting with the compound using the same e-caller. Midday, you switch to the crossbow and do some turkey hunting with same e-caller.

[growalot]

Well that's moot at the moment...not hunting today  and I know the turkey have vacated the area for at least a few days ...hopefully they will have an answer one way or the other before I make a decision on next turkey hunt... They said a few days...

PS... I'm not looking forward to sitting in ...at least a pop up blind any time soon...I happened to look up that day  to see not one  but over 50 black jumping spiders on the ceiling of the blind....I won't talk about a particular nightmare I dealt with up until my teens....but lets say I was a bit unhappy

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

I'm willing to bet, that if you are found hunting with a crossbow before the legal season, and everything about you points to "Deer Hunting", you're going to have a problem. It has nothing to do with with what category a crossbow falls into, it's all about having an implement that is not legal for what you're doing at the time.....if all of your gear is for nothing but deer hunting, the presumptive evidence points to "Deer Hunting".

I guess I am out of touch, I don't get those "gear" comments. my backpack is always packed the same. short of a diaphragm call which  I don't use in fall. I mainly just ambush based on their patterns. i will admit I am not a very good turkey hunter. Knife is the same, wipes, little toilet paper, couple plastic bags, zip ties, compass, GPS. Pen. Doesn't really change. 

[Rack Attack]

I believe it depends on the caliber of the rifle (believe it needs to be less than .22 caliber if centerfire at night during deer season).  the other issue you have is I don't believe an e-caller is legal for use for deer or turkeys.

[growalot]

the e caller would be illegal for turkey biz but if you didn't use it  that would be the most efficient use of your hunting time if you had all valid licenses...

[Steuben Jerry]

4 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Midday, you switch to the crossbow and do some turkey hunting with same e-caller.

That's a long day! No go on the e-caller for turkey though, right? 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

What about this scenario today:

In rifle county, you get into the woods at 2am with a rifle, crossbow, and compound bow. You plan to hunt yotes from 2am - sunrise with the rifle and e-caller. Then at sunrise you are deer hunting with the compound using the same e-caller. Midday, you switch to the crossbow and do some turkey hunting with same e-caller.

you wouldn't see any game with the entourage of people you would need to carry all your crap..lol 

[jjb4900]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I guess I am out of touch, I don't get those "gear" comments. my backpack is always packed the same. short of a diaphragm call which  I don't use in fall. I mainly just ambush based on their patterns. i will admit I am not a very good turkey hunter. Knife is the same, wipes, little toilet paper, couple plastic bags, zip ties, compass, GPS. Pen. Doesn't really change. 

ok, say you have rattling antlers, deer lure, deer drag rope, butt out tool, grunt call, doe bleat call, fawn in distress call.......stuff like that, you think any ECO is gonna believe you're turkey hunting? 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 minute ago, jjb4900 said:

ok, say you have rattling antlers, deer lure, deer drag rope, butt out tool, grunt call, doe bleat call, fawn in distress call.......stuff like that, you think any ECO is gonna believe you're turkey hunting? 

I certainly wouldn't think so. And anyone that is really hunting turkeys probably wouldn't have them. All this would be mounting evidence,  but as long as we are laying out the theoretical.  what if you already filled your deer tags and only had a turkey tag on you?

[jjb4900]

3 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I certainly wouldn't think so. And anyone that is really hunting turkeys probably wouldn't have them. All this would be mounting evidence,  but as long as we are laying out the theoretical.  what if you already filled your deer tags and only had a turkey tag on you?

wouldn't be an issue because I would be totally geared for turkey hunting and carrying a shotgun....leave the bow and crossbow home when I'm going for birds.

[WNYBuckHunter]

25 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

I believe it depends on the caliber of the rifle (believe it needs to be less than .22 caliber if centerfire at night during deer season).  the other issue you have is I don't believe an e-caller is legal for use for deer or turkeys.

Electronic calls are legal for deer, but not for turkeys

[growalot]

Not to prolong this and Not busting on you WNYBH... besides I have to start dinner...This:

Quote

Its also common sense to say to yourself "Well if this weapon, thats not legal for deer at this time, cant be carried while deer hunting, then this other weapon, that's not legal for deer at this time, shouldnt be carried while deer hunting either."

Commons sense could put a double edge on this ...The fact that they specifically mentioned no guns allowed and not no crossbows allowed would place common sense on they OK  considering it actually is legal to hunt 2 different species at the same time...as the DEC said to me most bear are shot during deer hunting and most bow shot coyote are shot by deer hunters but yet here it is a gun is allowed in turkey season during deer bow season...Now with this gun allowed, never do they say and you are not allowed to be in possession of a slug while turkey hunting they say you can't take a turkey with a bullet:

Quote

Manner of Taking

• You must carry your hunting license and turkey permit while you hunt.
• You may hunt with a bow or crossbow.
  • You may not hunt turkey with a crossbow in the fall in the Northern Zone if you are using dogs.
• You may hunt with a shotgun or handgun only when using shot no larger than #2 and no smaller than #8.
• You may use a muzzleloading shotgun.
• You may not take a turkey with a rifle, or with a handgun firing a bullet.
• You may not hunt with a dog during the spring season. You may hunt with a dog during the fall season.
• You may not use bait to hunt turkey.
• You may not use an electronic calling or amplifying device to locate or hunt turkeys during the open season.
• You may use decoys.
• A scope of any type is allowed.

Oh.. did I recall something about goose and deer...They now have copper slugs

Edited October 24, 2017 by growalot

[chrisw]

Not to prolong this and Not busting on you WNYBH... besides I have to start dinner...This:

Its also common sense to say to yourself "Well if this weapon, thats not legal for deer at this time, cant be carried while deer hunting, then this other weapon, that's not legal for deer at this time, shouldnt be carried while deer hunting either."

Commons sense could put a double edge on this ...The fact that they specifically mentioned no guns allowed and not no crossbows allowed would place common sense on they OK  considering it actually is legal to hunt 2 different species at the same time...as the DEC said to me most bear are shot during deer hunting and most bow shot coyote are shot by deer hunters but yet here it is a gun is allowed in turkey season during deer bow season...Now with this gun allowed, never do they say and you are not allowed to be in possession of a slug while turkey hunting they say you can't take a turkey with a bullet:

Manner of Taking

• You must carry your hunting license and turkey permit while you hunt.
• You may hunt with a bow or crossbow.
  • You may not hunt turkey with a crossbow in the fall in the Northern Zone if you are using dogs.
• You may hunt with a shotgun or handgun only when using shot no larger than #2 and no smaller than #8.
• You may use a muzzleloading shotgun.
• You may not take a turkey with a rifle, or with a handgun firing a bullet.
• You may not hunt with a dog during the spring season. You may hunt with a dog during the fall season.
• You may not use bait to hunt turkey.
• You may not use an electronic calling or amplifying device to locate or hunt turkeys during the open season.
• You may use decoys.
• A scope of any type is allowed.

Oh.. did I recall something about goose and deer...They now have copper slugs
Still reaching I see...

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[moog5050]

Since my job is dealing with statutes and regulations at times (and many are not perfectly worded), I will simply offer the following canons of interpretation when a statute or regulation is ambiguous.  Use them as you will:

Courts, "determine legislative intent by examining not only the literal words of the statute, but also the reasonableness of proposed constructions, the public policy behind the statute, and its legislative history."

"When the language of a statute is ambiguous, Courts must consider the social and economic results which would be effectuated by a decision on the meaning of the statute."

Statutes should be given a, "reasonable and practical interpretation, in accord with common sense."

Not my words, but pretty well point on in my experience.  That said, this seems to be much ado about nothing really.  How many people want to carry 2 weapons.  Not me!

Edited October 24, 2017 by moog5050

[growalot]

No Chris I'm pointing things out you really think 9 pages of discussion and debate are about me...It is not, though you seem to have that tire firmly mired in the mud..perhaps eventually you'll get it...

[chrisw]

Not sure why it isn't properly putting the topic I'm replying to in qoutes or shadowed but... Grow, you're really reaching with some of this, don't you think?? Go goose hunting with copper slugs then, since your desperation is forcing you to seek any fathomable loophole to reinforce your original thought.

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[growalot]

I don't goose hunt...lol I don't like nor will I eat goose..

 Do you understand the words you use...so far I'm emotional, I'm now desperate, nonsensical, reaching, shady  and  still your in denial...LOL

Edited October 24, 2017 by growalot

[WNYBuckHunter]

13 minutes ago, growalot said:

Not to prolong this and Not busting on you WNYBH... besides I have to start dinner...This:

Commons sense could put a double edge on this ...The fact that they specifically mentioned no guns allowed and not no crossbows allowed would place common sense on they OK  considering it actually is legal to hunt 2 different species at the same time...as the DEC said to me most bear are shot during deer hunting and most bow shot coyote are shot by deer hunters but yet here it is a gun is allowed in turkey season during deer bow season...Now with this gun allowed, never do they say and you are not allowed to be in possession of a slug while turkey hunting they say you can't take a turkey with a bullet:

Oh.. did I recall something about goose and deer...They now have copper slugs

Honestly Im not sure where you were going with this. Its only legal to shoot bear with whatever weapon is open for deer at the time. Coyotes can be taken with a bow, crossbow or a rifle (less than .22 caliber) during archery season. If you are saying that you are taking a crossbow out to shoot coyotes and a bow to shoot deer, you are getting back into the same grey area as your original question. You cannot take a rifle (regardless of caliber) and a bow into the field at the same time during archery season.

Im not sure what copper sabots have to do with not shooting a turkey with a bullet. Sabots and other deer slugs are bullets, are they not?

[chrisw]

The fact that you're still clinging to your original statement after all things point the other direction shows your inability to be in theory "wrong." I don't even care about what the statutes say at this point, we've come to a logical consensus on this thread. Now the part that bugs me is you can't just let it go with a simple, "it turns out I was probably in the wrong." Have a nice dinner Grow...

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[growalot]

that was referance to something i recalled way in the beginning about deer hunting and gooses at the same time and have lead..anyways to the rifle statement... yet you can take a shot gun 

Edited October 24, 2017 by growalot

[growalot]

No you can't let it go to I'll wait for written confirmation...you to Chris

[Five Seasons]

I guess I am out of touch, I don't get those "gear" comments. my backpack is always packed the same. short of a diaphragm call which  I don't use in fall. I mainly just ambush based on their patterns. i will admit I am not a very good turkey hunter. Knife is the same, wipes, little toilet paper, couple plastic bags, zip ties, compass, GPS. Pen. Doesn't really change. 

I have a fall turkey tag and would shoot a Tom if one shows. Same way a lot of guys end up with black bears.

I think it’s hard and uncommon to hunt both effectively. Not impossible but ideally you’re not up in a tree clucking while also rattling.

My fanny pack of gear and camo is also the same, except I wear a vest full of calls, no scentlok baselayers and a decoy bag in the spring. In the fall I have a few deer calls.

I’m sure that approach is more common than it is rare.


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[Five Seasons]

I certainly wouldn't think so. And anyone that is really hunting turkeys probably wouldn't have them. All this would be mounting evidence,  but as long as we are laying out the theoretical.  what if you already filled your deer tags and only had a turkey tag on you?

What if I shot a buck early in the season and just used my last dmp. I’m now in the stand waiting the standard 30 minutes before I get down to track. New arrow is nocked in case I see a yote or turkey or better yet the doe is wounded.

Unbelievably a ECO shows up to check on a complaint. Am I now hunting illegally without a tag?

This game can be played all day haha



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[WNYBuckHunter]

35 minutes ago, growalot said:

that was referance to something i recalled way in the beginning about deer hunting and gooses at the same time and have lead..anyways to the rifle statement... yet you can take a shot gun 

Im not following you. Where can you take a shotgun?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

What if I shot a buck early in the season and just used my last dmp. I’m now in the stand waiting the standard 30 minutes before I get down to track. New arrow is nocked in case I see a yote or turkey or better yet the doe is wounded.

Unbelievably a ECO shows up to check on a complaint. Am I now hunting illegally without a tag?

This game can be played all day haha



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It sure can. I would think that the level of confidence one has in the Encon officers and the regulations is framed very much in the past experiences with them. I have dealt with nothing but top notch professionals out here in Region 8, some of the eastern regions, not so much.  Toss in the other LEO's that are not totally focused on ENV law and that frames my hesitancy to  just leave it to their interpretation.