What's the difference? Baiting vs. Attracting

[reeltime]

My opinion has always been that food plots are baiting.  Now, I have absolutely nothing against food plots, but lets call it what it really is.  I know people who plant food plots will argue that it's not baiting and give me the story that they do it to help the deer, but how many would plant food for the deer if they didn't hunt?  The answer is few to none.
 
 

You can mark me down for having food plots and not hunting them. Of all the properties I have close to 30 acres of plots and I do not have a single stand that covers one of those plots for bow and I do very little if any gun hunting. They are planted for the deer and turkeys. The plots on our pa home farm I have had in since 93 I have never killed a deer. On one of those plots and neither has dad, mom, and anyone that has hunted with me.

Food plots are not baiting, taking a food source and placing it where wildlife can access it and become accustomed to an easy meal is considered baiting. Baiting is far more prevolant than people think.

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[reeltime]

Better yet a timed feeder...telling them exactly what time to show up with the sound of feed dispersing...

My buddy lives in jersey, they "feed" all year with one of those green drum battery feeders. He has it on a block and tackle suspended off a large limb in the yard so the bears don't cart it off anymore. But anyway I have spent enough time there to know that when that feeder goes off you do NOT want to be standing in front of one of the deer trails coming into the yard! Deer are probably one of the easiest big game animals to domesticate, they have many pics of feeding the deer by hand.

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[Doc]

Many laws have caveats that are necessary for practicality. Let's face it, the DEC is not going to make planting fruit trees illegal simply because they happen to also attract deer. Farmers are not going to be arrested for planting crops that deer feed on. And food plots cannot be made illegal either because there essentially is no physical difference from Farmer Brown's ag crops and Joe Hunter's food plots. However, a wagon full of corn or apples, or a special contraption for dispensing bait grains is an easily identifiable set up that doesn't look like any other legal activity. If it has been established that such practices are to be deemed illegal, bait piles and feeders can be easily identified and made enforcement can be accomplished without a whole lot of hassle involving proving motives and intent. Defining "baiting" in the way that they do makes a clear distinction without trying to get into the mind and motives of those attempting to do it (which is a hard thing to prove).

Actually, baiting creates two DEC violations....Baiting, and feeding. Both are illegal.

[nyantler]

4 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Food plots, like crops are available 24/7 and thus, even if being used, are not necessarily a draw whereby you can pattern deer.  A feeder, on the other had, as used where legal is typically on a timer and like pavlovs dogs, out come the deer to hit the bait before its all gone at the same time each day.  I thinks its the specific timing/pattern and small location that makes baiting so effective  where legal.  Drop a big bag of corn and jump in a tree on day one, probably not so effective since the deer are not conditioned.  Do it every day for a month at the same time and things change.  Having hunted parcels with plots and without, I have not seen a huge difference.  In fact, I can only think of one deer that I killed in a food plot and that was an early season doe.  Maybe it makes a bigger difference in areas with less browse and ag.  Maybe I just stink at hunting around food plots.

I would mostly agree, but most food plots being planted by deer hunters are hybrids developed especially for attracting and keeping deer. Higher protein and nutrient content which becomes much preferred by deer. In fact, in many cases deer will forego traditional food sources to feed exclusively on the hybrid food source. None of it really matters to me if that is what makes hunting fun for a hunter. I just don't like when hunters try to pass off the whole food plotting thing  as something other than what it is... a means of increasing their chance of attracting and holding deer on to their property. It has nothing to do with any real conservation effort, but rather more about killing more deer. It is much easier to plant a food source where you want to hunt and get deer patterned to it... than to take the time involved every year to find the thriving natural food source being used and have to pattern the deer... which gets it much closer to baiting than some will admit.... just my opinion.

[nyantler]

5 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Yup, no difference in my mind and could careless which people prefer to do legal or not. Either way you are using some sort of non-natural substance/something that is not normally in that area to draw in deer. Either way you're bringing deer in with something they don't usually have in that area. 

like I said, "...and whatever side of the argument you're on"

[steve863]

43 minutes ago, reeltime said:

You can mark me down for having food plots and not hunting them. Of all the properties I have close to 30 acres of plots and I do not have a single stand that covers one of those plots for bow and I do very little if any gun hunting. They are planted for the deer and turkeys. The plots on our pa home farm I have had in since 93 I have never killed a deer. On one of those plots and neither has dad, mom, and anyone that has hunted with me.

Food plots are not baiting, taking a food source and placing it where wildlife can access it and become accustomed to an easy meal is considered baiting. Baiting is far more prevolant than people think.

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Congratulations for being one of the very few who plant food for deer on land they don't hunt on.   I will disagree with you on the baiting part, however.  You may not be baiting since you don't hunt the land, but those who do hunt on land they plant on I absolutely would consider it baiting.  Again, I have nothing against food plots, but you are planting food that wouldn't be there if you didn't plant it, so how can this not be considered an easy meal for deer that they could become accustomed to?  I guess there is a stigma to the word "baiting" and some of you don't want to be associated with it, but in reality it is all very much the same thing.  

[steve863]

32 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Actually, baiting creates two DEC violations....Baiting, and feeding. Both are illegal.

Yeah, I've read DEC statement telling people not to feed wildlife, yet food plots are allowed?  So which is it?  Leave it up to the DEC to give you two different answers to one question.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Yup, no difference in my mind and could careless which people prefer to do legal or not. Either way you are using some sort of non-natural substance/something that is not normally in that area to draw in deer. Either way you're bringing deer in with something they don't usually have in that area. 

you've never set up on an AG field?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Yeah, I've read DEC statement telling people not to feed wildlife, yet food plots are allowed?  So which is it?  Leave it up to the DEC to give you two different answers to one question.

No, they have only one answer. You pile deer food, you are guilty of baiting and feeding. You plant an apple tree or put in an ag crop or a smaller version of a crop (food plot) and it's legal. There is no "different answers. There definitions are clear and precise.

[Doc]

Another thing that we often forget is that the reasons for laws can be arguable and don't necessarily have to be proved to be correct to still be valid and enforceable. We can argue all day about whether the law makes sense or does what the DEC thinks it does, but the side of the law always falls on the side that followed procedures and made it become law. Anyone who thinks a particular law stinks, is certainly free to begin a campaign to get it changed.

[steve863]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

No, they have only one answer. You pile deer food, you are guilty of baiting and feeding. You plant an apple tree or put in an ag crop or a smaller version of a crop (food plot) and it's legal. There is no "different answers. There definitions are clear and precise.

Yes, baiting is illegal, but I was talking about feeding wildlife in general.  Read this and tell me where they say that food plots are OK while other type of feeding isn't ?  I didn't read about any distinctions here.  Whatever is said about feeding animals in this DEC statement can surely be applied to food plots also.    http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74763.html

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Yes, baiting is illegal, but I was talking about feeding wildlife in general.  Read this and tell me where they say that food plots are OK while other type of feeding isn't ?  I didn't read about any distinctions here.  Whatever is said about feeding animals in this DEC statement can surely be applied to food plots also.    http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74763.html

Not really. Your same assumption would make apple orchards and farmers hay or corn fields as being prohibited feeding of deer. And of course that is not the case.

However if you really want to see real contradiction in Conservation law regarding feeding, consider that we have one county that has no "feeding" law. I'm not sure how or if that conflict ever got resolved.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

25 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Yes, baiting is illegal, but I was talking about feeding wildlife in general.  Read this and tell me where they say that food plots are OK while other type of feeding isn't ?  I didn't read about any distinctions here.  Whatever is said about feeding animals in this DEC statement can surely be applied to food plots also.    http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/74763.html

section 189.3

(b) Feeding wild white-tailed deer or wild moose in New York.

No person shall feed wild white-tailed deer or wild moose at any time in New York State except:

(1) under a license or permit issued by the department pursuant to article 11, title 5 of the Environmental Conservation Law for bona fide scientific research, mitigation of wildlife damage or nuisance problems, or wildlife population reduction programs only;

(2) by planting, cultivating or harvesting of crops directly associated with bona fide agricultural practices, including planted wildlife food plots;

(3) by distribution of food material for livestock directly associated with bona fide agricultural practices;

(4) by distribution of food material for legally possessed captive animals of the Genus Cervus or the Genus Odocoileus or the Genus Alces; or

(5) by cutting of trees or brush.

[steve863]

8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

section 189.3

(b) Feeding wild white-tailed deer or wild moose in New York.

No person shall feed wild white-tailed deer or wild moose at any time in New York State except:

(1) under a license or permit issued by the department pursuant to article 11, title 5 of the Environmental Conservation Law for bona fide scientific research, mitigation of wildlife damage or nuisance problems, or wildlife population reduction programs only;

(2) by planting, cultivating or harvesting of crops directly associated with bona fide agricultural practices, including planted wildlife food plots;

(3) by distribution of food material for livestock directly associated with bona fide agricultural practices;

(4) by distribution of food material for legally possessed captive animals of the Genus Cervus or the Genus Odocoileus or the Genus Alces; or

(5) by cutting of trees or brush.

Of course they obviously allow it, but I still think the DEC is talking from two sides of their mouth with so many statements they make.  Them considering food plots a "bona fide agricultural practice" is funny in itself.  How many people eat the stuff they put out in their food plots for deer?  LOL   Maybe they could make a nice salad out of it for dinner.

[Rebel Darling]

4 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Of course they obviously allow it, but I still think the DEC is talking from two sides of their mouth with so many statements they make.  Them considering food plots a "bona fide agricultural practice" is funny in itself.  How many people eat the stuff they put out in their food plots for deer?  LOL   Maybe they could make a nice salad out of it for dinner.

I think that the act of planting is what constitutes a bona fide agricultural practice, working the land.  This is opposed to dumping a crate of apples or a bag of corn on the ground in front of your stand.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Of course they obviously allow it, but I still think the DEC is talking from two sides of their mouth with so many statements they make.  Them considering food plots a "bona fide agricultural practice" is funny in itself.  How many people eat the stuff they put out in their food plots for deer?  LOL   Maybe they could make a nice salad out of it for dinner.

I think they are taking a very wide view of what an agricultural practice is. Not necessarily for human consumption, like a clover, hay  or alfalfa field. I'ts for animals but domesticated ones. I have picked some great turnips out of a couple plots a buddy planted though. They were delicious.  But in general, I don't see the difference really, other than what the law says.  

[growalot]

51 minutes ago, Doc said:

Not really. Your same assumption would make apple orchards and farmers hay or corn fields as being prohibited feeding of deer. And of course that is not the case.

However if you really want to see real contradiction in Conservation law regarding feeding, consider that we have one county that has no "feeding" law. I'm not sure how or if that conflict ever got resolved.

or my garden...lol

[growalot]

28 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I think they are taking a very wide view of what an agricultural practice is. Not necessarily for human consumption, like a clover, hay  or alfalfa field. I'ts for animals but domesticated ones. I have picked some great turnips out of a couple plots a buddy planted though. They were delicious.  But in general, I don't see the difference really, other than what the law says.  

Turnips,soybeans,(great)turnip greens, oats, Chestnuts,apples grapes all part of plots...ect...ect..

[reeltime]

Congratulations for being one of the very few who plant food for deer on land they don't hunt on.   I will disagree with you on the baiting part, however.  You may not be baiting since you don't hunt the land, but those who do hunt on land they plant on I absolutely would consider it baiting.  Again, I have nothing against food plots, but you are planting food that wouldn't be there if you didn't plant it, so how can this not be considered an easy meal for deer that they could become accustomed to?  I guess there is a stigma to the word "baiting" and some of you don't want to be associated with it, but in reality it is all very much the same thing.  

Actually there are hundreds of acres of the same stuff planted all around and on our farm. My plots are not visible from any roads so the deer can eat in peace without fear of roadhunters shooting them like they do in a lot of the hay fields around here. The deer do not come to the plots daily they do not lay up within earshot of the plot so when I go mow it they run in, but I have seen first hand what happens when they are conditioned to free feed handouts.

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[Bolt action]

I have access to 2 private pieces of land. Both are posted and I have written exclusive permission to both from the land owner. One property is 200+ acres of hardwood. The other is roughly 20 acres hardwood with 200 acres of ag. The hardwood property is established so no real trouble from neighbors. The AG property is newer and so I've had my hands full this year with trespassers. My question is this. When I was there a few days ago, there was a fresh pile of corn with chunks of granular molasses mixed in. This was maybe 25 yds off the road, right where the driveway meets the field. I put a camera over it to try to figure out who it is. The property is about an hour from my house which makes babysitting it tough. I have a call in to the local eco. Prior to that conversation, any suggestions on what I should do?

Edited December 6, 2017 by Bolt action

[reeltime]

40 minutes ago, Bolt action said:

I have access to 2 private pieces of land. Both are posted and I have written exclusive permission to both from the land owner. One property is 200+ acres of hardwood. The other is roughly 20 acres hardwood with 200 acres of ag. The hardwood property is established so no real trouble from neighbors. The AG property is newer and so I've had my hands full this year with trespassers. My question is this. When I was there a few days ago, there was a fresh pile of corn with chunks of granular molasses mixed in. This was maybe 25 yds off the road, right where the driveway meets the field. I put a camera over it to try to figure out who it is. The property is about an hour from my house which makes babysitting it tough. I have a call in to the local eco. Prior to that conversation, any suggestions on what I should do?

looks like someone is upset over your new acquisition, unfortunately all you can do is clean it all up and not hunt there for 30 days unless you have a release from encon. If you have stands there make sure you check them every single time before climbing up as this person may have sabotaged your stands and or climbing sticks. 

 

[reeltime]

this will leave a mark.

 

 

http://hnews.press/2017/12/04/world-famous-hadley-creek-outfitters-of-pike-county-illinois-gets-hit-with-43-illegal-citations-by-idnr/

[Hunter007]

5 hours ago, steve863 said:

Of course they obviously allow it, but I still think the DEC is talking from two sides of their mouth with so many statements they make.  Them considering food plots a "bona fide agricultural practice" is funny in itself.  How many people eat the stuff they put out in their food plots for deer?  LOL   Maybe they could make a nice salad out of it for dinner.

Plants and trees you plant  are naturally in the deers environment. 

But the chemical crap people  buy in the store is not. Plus you are able to concentrate that stuff right in one exact spot exactly when and where you want it . You fallow. 

You plant something there is know guarantee it's still going to be there when you want the deer to be there .

 

[Zem18]

Lots of great replies all. Thanks for all of the opinions. I'll continue to hunt my "natural" attractions and re think the food plots in the summer months.

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[erussell]

12 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

My 50 foot "plots" were eaten and all gone before 10/1. Next year, I will adjust accordingly somehow.

Winter rye is best kill plot ever.They wont eat all of that. And it grows back.

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