almost all school budgets go thru?? Big Rant!

[First-light]

_

[WNYBuckHunter]

As long as we at talking layoffs and reductions in teachers.......how "great" is a system where the best and the brightest could be tossed to the curb because they don't have as many years in as some others. The seriority thing blows to put it bluntly.

And I do think many of them are over paid for what they provide. Let's take a look at my sister in law. a Librarian.....in Albany area....over 70 k with those wonderful bennies.....and let's not forget.....that is a salary that they can take over 12 months or just the months they work. So the school year runs from September through June. 10 months. now start taking off the breaks. We have winter recess and Spring break just to name two.then throw in the holidays from Christmas to wounded woodchuck day. Could probably chisel that down to about 9 months. If you figure that many of them take summer jobs too they make a pretty good annual sallary.

Now. I think the position is almost unmatched in terms of importance but in the current system we do not get the return on our investment....and that is what pissed me off. I don't mind paying for anything if the benefit is there.

Precisely why tenure needs to go, or be modified to allow for performance based reviews and give the right to the district to fire staff for lack of performance.

Now remember guys, a good chunk of our household income comes from my fiance's coaching salary and substitute teaching. She is in grad school finishing up her masters in education. Im not just a disgruntled taxpayer lol.

Good luck! Tough field these days.

Yeah no kidding. Ive been telling her she should be looking in other fields for a while now.

[WNYBuckHunter]

and 5-6 years of schooling isn't all that tough... seeing how most of it is spent partying... anyone who has gone to college would even tell you its some of the best years of their life.

Joe, I gotta disagree with you on that. Ask my fiance how much partying she has done through college. To get the grades needed to stay accepted in a decent school, you have to work your ass off.

[WNYBuckHunter]

How many teaching jobs really need a 5-6 year degree ? Where did that requirement come from ?

All of them. Even a Kindergarten teacher has to have it. The process is you get your bachelors, then get certified, then have 5 years in which to go through grad school. If you dont, your teaching certificate is revoked.

[First-light]

This is a tough subject especially when we are in the economic situation we are in now. Years ago the retirement package and benefits were great for teachers. This has gone down through the years. There are retirement tiers and each one gets less and less with time. One thing to remember when talking about administrators of schools, most of them their work is their way of life. They take care of you children, their education and safety. They have 11-12 month positions, 1-2 meeting per week that go late into the night and weekend duty(sports, plays you name it). Those highly compensated administrators are worth every penny. There are bad apples in every segment of society, some are harder to get rid of than others. I believe some change needs to take place with union policies but voting down a budget just hurts the kids and the school moral more than you will ever know.

[nyantler]

and 5-6 years of schooling isn't all that tough... seeing how most of it is spent partying... anyone who has gone to college would even tell you its some of the best years of their life.

Joe, I gotta disagree with you on that. Ask my fiance how much partying she has done through college. To get the grades needed to stay accepted in a decent school, you have to work your ass off.

There are always exceptions... I went to college and graduated with honors and partied my ass off... and I went to a catholic university... 

It kills me when teachers say how tough they have it... I'll get them up on a roof with me for 8 hours when it's 85 degrees, or they can help me hang 100 sheets of drywall for 8 hrs .. then they'll stop their bitchin' and  beg to go back to the classroom the next day...

[WNYBuckHunter]

My fiance has a friend that parties alot and goes to grad school. Shes gonna be in there for longer than most, thats all Ill say about that lol.

[Dave]

This is a tough subject especially when we are in the economic situation we are in now. Years ago the retirement package and benefits were great for teachers. This has gone down through the years. There are retirement tiers and each one gets less and less with time. One thing to remember when talking about administrators of schools, most of them their work is their way of life. They take care of you children, their education and safety. They have 11-12 month positions, 1-2 meeting per week that go late into the night and weekend duty(sports, plays you name it). Those highly compensated administrators are worth every penny. There are bad apples in every segment of society, some are harder to get rid of than others. I believe some change needs to take place with union policies but voting down a budget just hurts the kids and the school moral more than you will ever know.

Burt, stop you are breaking my heart. That's exactly what they want you to believe, they do squat and get paid a ton. My taxes went up $1600 for this year no notice just the increase in my mortgage, so guess how I voted. $9000 a year for what?? They play on your sympathy that they are hurting the children if you don't pass the budget. Know what hurts the children when their parents lose their job , they also don't have the same benefits the teachers do. So the teachers are just protecting themselves.

On Long Island we just pay high school taxes so our children move to another state to live because they can't afford to live here, does this make any sense to you. So the tax payers get nothing for their money, our children have to move so who makes out on the deal the teachers. So don't tell me how hard they work you insult us. Also remember this they pensions are guaranteed by NYS of when the pension fund loses money from bad investments the tax payer must make up the difference. How many workers have that type deal, when we lose money in our 401K it's no one is backing up our losses. You touched a raw nerve!!!

Dave

[First-light]

This is a tough subject especially when we are in the economic situation we are in now. Years ago the retirement package and benefits were great for teachers. This has gone down through the years. There are retirement tiers and each one gets less and less with time. One thing to remember when talking about administrators of schools, most of them their work is their way of life. They take care of you children, their education and safety. They have 11-12 month positions, 1-2 meeting per week that go late into the night and weekend duty(sports, plays you name it). Those highly compensated administrators are worth every penny. There are bad apples in every segment of society, some are harder to get rid of than others. I believe some change needs to take place with union policies but voting down a budget just hurts the kids and the school moral more than you will ever know.

Burt, stop you are breaking my heart. That's exactly what they want you to believe, they do squat and get paid a ton. My taxes went up $1600 for this year no notice just the increase in my mortgage, so guess how I voted. $9000 a year for what?? They play on your sympathy that they are hurting the children if you don't pass the budget. Know what hurts the children when their parents lose their job , they also don't have the same benefits the teachers do. So the teachers are just protecting themselves.

On Long Island we just pay high school taxes so our children move to another state to live because they can't afford to live here, does this make any sense to you. So the tax payers get nothing for their money, our children have to move so who makes out on the deal the teachers. So don't tell me how hard they work you insult us. Also remember this they pensions are guaranteed by NYS of when the pension fund loses money from bad investments the tax payer must make up the difference. How many workers have that type deal, when we lose money in our 401K it's no one is backing up our losses. You touched a raw nerve!!!

Dave

Sorry Dave I respectively disagree. I know people in these positions and every word I say is true, no brainwashing here. High taxes are a bitch and it sucks that you have to move. I'm thankful with such a large family this has not been the case with us. That all I'm saying back to the hunting show!

[phade]

All NY teaching roles require a graduate degree. ALL of them.

College kids will not go into debt 30k plus for degrees to make 32-34k a year starting salary.

I'm not saying anything about those who make 100k after being there 30 years. Or about the sports costs...

I'm saying you get less quality teachers with lower starting pay. Make them accountable every five years for tenure renewal. Make them earn wages. But, offer it. Don't say 32-34k for a 6 yr required degree.

I took my undergrad degree in education and rolled it up and smoked it (figuratively)...got in business and made much more money.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

voucher system and privatize the education system and the problem is solved. The govt can never do anything as cost effective ad the private sector.

[sits in trees]

This is a tough subject especially when we are in the economic situation we are in now. Years ago the retirement package and benefits were great for teachers. This has gone down through the years. There are retirement tiers and each one gets less and less with time. One thing to remember when talking about administrators of schools, most of them their work is their way of life. They take care of you children, their education and safety. They have 11-12 month positions, 1-2 meeting per week that go late into the night and weekend duty(sports, plays you name it). Those highly compensated administrators are worth every penny. There are bad apples in every segment of society, some are harder to get rid of than others. I believe some change needs to take place with union policies but voting down a budget just hurts the kids and the school moral more than you will ever know.

Burt, stop you are breaking my heart. That's exactly what they want you to believe, they do squat and get paid a ton. My taxes went up $1600 for this year no notice just the increase in my mortgage, so guess how I voted. $9000 a year for what?? They play on your sympathy that they are hurting the children if you don't pass the budget. Know what hurts the children when their parents lose their job , they also don't have the same benefits the teachers do. So the teachers are just protecting themselves.

On Long Island we just pay high school taxes so our children move to another state to live because they can't afford to live here, does this make any sense to you. So the tax payers get nothing for their money, our children have to move so who makes out on the deal the teachers. So don't tell me how hard they work you insult us. Also remember this they pensions are guaranteed by NYS of when the pension fund loses money from bad investments the tax payer must make up the difference. How many workers have that type deal, when we lose money in our 401K it's no one is backing up our losses. You touched a raw nerve!!!

Dave

thankyou Dave!

[sits in trees]

if the teachers unions and education system were a corporation it would have ZERO investors with the performance and product they produce, bad investment no matter how you twist it...

TIED with POLAND!!!!!!!at number 16 world wide....20% dropout rate!.....other countries children can write and read ENGLISH better than American Kids???....

yet we as taxpayers are forced to contribute to this BAD investment.. the teachers union has become a huge fat drunkin giant that is staggering and ready to fall ;D

[G-Man]

teachers may have A low starting salary...but the finish off pretty good for a 9month job.Sounds like any other job out there..start low and earn raises.  Most budgets are for field houses/new buildings,new buses, astroturf... like this is important for education?? Cut out all extra curriular activities and you know what kids will maybe learn to do things on their own(we use to have a lot of pick up ball games/football/kickball.) Maybe the kids will go hunting/hiking/fishing...yes they will probably be on their computers.... Face it most kids are not going to the olympics/or professional sports..do they really need an olympic swimming pool,astroturf field,professional field house?All the sports injuries will resurface later in life increasing our insurance costs. Or are we just feeding some ego on the school board? Kids are told to do this, join this, and their imagination is lacking due to information overload via video games,and television. I really don't see a need to up a budget like it seems they everyyear when its for fluff. of course our government does this with every law it passes as well....

[nyantler]

I don't know how we played football and lacrosse 30 years ago without turf on our fields : ... God forbid a kid gets muddy anymore... or has to play in the rain. I'm not sure how I learned anything and made my way to college having to sit in a classroom with 35 other kids... I don't remember the teacher being all stressed out because he/she had a large class... they would teach all day then stay after school and help the kids that needed it... now the teachers are out the door and on there way home before the kids..

[sits in trees]

I don't know how we played football and lacrosse 30 years ago without turf on our fields : ... God forbid a kid gets muddy anymore... or has to play in the rain. I'm not sure how I learned anything and made my way to college having to sit in a classroom with 35 other kids... I don't remember the teacher being all stressed out because he/she had a large class... they would teach all day then stay after school and help the kids that needed it... now the teachers are out the door and on there way home before the kids..

funny you mention that, i have picked my kids up at high school many times and yea the teachers are scampering out at 2:10 with their briefcases before the kids even come out to the buses!!!

[Dave]

I live near a high school and the kids all go out for lunch so the teachers don't have to supervise them during lunch. So they chase them away from the school if they congregate during their lunch hour. Then they migrate through the neighborhood and walk on lawns and litter , smoke pot and then go back to school. When you complain to the school they say they can't do anything about it. Believe me if these teachers think they are undespencible  they are wrong other qualified people would take their jobs for much less. But they are a protected species.

Dave

[sits in trees]

voucher system and privatize the education system and the problem is solved. The govt can never do anything as cost effective ad the private sector.

i'm not too sure privatizing education is the answer, look at our privatized healthcare system here in the US, we pay more for less than any other westernized country in the world and have insurers that will give you the boot if your too sick and have been raising rates 20% a year for the last 20 years? not to get into a healthcare debate here but putting education into Wall streets hands would not be a solution.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sits. If your logic is valid then we should be turning over all private sector business to the govt. The problems with the healthccare system are not because they are privately held and operated.

I would love to be able to select a school for my daughter that fit her needs....where she was surrounded by kids of similiar interest and talents.....where I was getting my moneys worth in her education. Not like now when she sits in advanced chem class and has a 98 average and doesn't know squat.....I had to hire a tutor for her ...not to keep her grade up....but so she understood the actual lessons. The teacher is incompetent and since she has been there for years...untouchable. great system..not

[sits in trees]

Sits. If your logic is valid then we should be turning over all private sector business to the govt. The problems with the healthccare system are not because they are privately held and operated.

I would love to be able to select a school for my daughter that fit her needs....where she was surrounded by kids of similiar interest and talents.....where I was getting my moneys worth in her education. Not like now when she sits in advanced chem class and has a 98 average and doesn't know squat.....I had to hire a tutor for her ...not to keep her grade up....but so she understood the actual lessons. The teacher is incompetent and since she has been there for years...untouchable. great system..not

you might be right, privatizing education may be the way to go. but it might well be a pipe dream when you look at the power these teachers unions have over politicians both repulicon and democrapt. if things keep going the way they are going the stangle hold teachers have on many states in this country will only lead to disaster..i think the system has to self destruct first, kinda a natural death, then privatization may just happen, something will happen and it won't be pretty or good for our kids and i think it's already well under way, this budget axed 22 teachers out of my district dispite a 6 percent increase, just imagine if Cuomo's 2 % cap becomes law.

oh out of the 22 they cut were all young bright energetic teachers, the old i couldnt give a crap ones are sitting tight, but they will tell you it's all about the kids HUH?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I do agree, the only way the privatization will work is the breaking of the teachers union. If the teachers of the individual schools want to unionize then they should vote just as an employee group in any other business. if the vote yes and burden the school so heavily that the school can not be competative, they go out of business. Provide the best education for the best price and it thrives....don't and you fail....the way it should be.

[Doc]

Here's a little perspective relative to school spending. Back in the 60's when I graduated high school, we had one school that had been there for decades. It contained BOTH elementary, junior high and high school. We had one principle and a vice principle and a secretary as the total administration. Our graduating class was 50 students. Oh, and by the way, we had exactly one bus run that handled all students from Kindergarten thru high school. Today the average graduating class is not that much bigger (about 60+). However, today there is another additional school (the elementary school), complete with a bloated administrative staff, and something they call a school district superviser. Far more than double the staff, school square footage, maintenance, heating resources spent, etc., etc. Today you can find school buses just about anywhere at any time of the day. They have the early bus, the late bus and all kinds of special transports for every excuse you can think of. School trips ...... anywhere, anytime, for any excuse.

Strangely enough even with these massive increases in taxpayer expenditures, unlike us poor deprived students of the day, there seems to be a complete breakdown of basic learning. Reading, writing, comprehension, math skills and also by the way the graduation rate seem to not be responding in a positive way when we simply throw money at our education problems. The more we spend the worse the education. Why is that??? Nobody seems to catch on to the fact that quality of education is not really related to money spent.

Teachers may shoulder some of the blame, but there seems to be a whole lot more wrong with our educational financing than just some teacher's salaries. Over-all cost per head for education has gone through the roof (even when adjusted for inflation) and nobody is even looking at that number. To me the blame lies in the taxpayers themselves. All you have to do is mention that "it is for the children" and taxpayers mindlessly fall all over themselves pulling the dollars out of their pockets. And all that without a single thought as to how the money is being spent or whether we are getting anything for our buck.

[Dave]

So true.

[sits in trees]

i fell sorry for handicapped children but we have buses in our disrtict that transport 2 handicapped children, with one driver and one monitor per child, than the bus drive 1.5 hours away and these 3 people hang out in town while these kids are recieving their special ed?

also we have one track star in the district that the send up to Albany to compete for an intire weekend with a driver, a coach, and they put them all up in a hotel and they get paid for 18 hours a day while sitting in a hotel room all because this kid can run???

[WNYBuckHunter]

Coaches dont get paid hourly, they are paid a flat rate per sports season. If that coach spent 2 or 3 days somewhere for a competition, they didnt get any extra. Just sayin.