Gun Ownership Up & Violent Crime Down per FBI

[Mr VJP]

[table][tr][td]

Gun Ownership Skyrockets, While Violent Crime Drops…Again

[/td]  [/tr]  [tr]  [td] [/td]  [/tr]  [tr]  [td]Friday, May 27, 2011

[/td]  [/tr]  [tr]  [td] [/td]  [/tr]  [tr]  [td]This week, the FBI estimated that the  number of violent crimes decreased 5.5 percent from 2009 to 2010,  including a 4.4 percent decrease in the number of murders.  Because  the U.S. population increased during the period, the figures imply that  the total violent crime per capita rate and the murder rate decreased  more than six percent and five percent, respectively.  Based upon the preliminary data, it appears that violent crime fell to a 37-year low and murder fell to a 47-year low.  The FBI will report final figures for 2010 later this year.

We’re repeating ourselves, but, as has been the case for quite a  while, the decrease in crime coincided with an increase in the number  of privately owned guns—particularly handguns and detachable magazine  semi-automatic rifles.  For example, Americans bought over  400,000 AR-15s in 2009, and trends in AR-15 sales over the last few  years suggest a similar number for 2010.

Those who have followed the gun control issue for a few years  probably have noticed that with crime declining and gun numbers rising  year after year, gun control groups have all but abandoned their  previously perennial claims that more guns equal more crime. Even their  friends in the news media don’t believe it anymore.  The  Violence Policy Center and, breaking with past habit, the Brady Campaign  didn’t even try to claim that the decrease in crime in 2010 was  attributable to gun control.

Neither did Mayors Against Illegal Guns, headed by New York City’s gun control activist mayor, Michael Bloomberg.  Bloomberg’s rare and welcomed silence is to be expected in this instance, however.  New  York City’s murder rate rose 15 percent despite its severe gun laws,  while Bloomberg dedicated himself and lots of money to criticizing the  less restrictive laws that are in place in other parts of the country.

Speaking of cities with less restrictive gun laws, El Paso had  the greatest decrease in murder—58 percent— among cities of over 500,000  population in 2010.  For those who are counting, El Paso’s  estimated murder rate was 0.8 per 100,000 population, while New York  City’s was eight times higher at 6.4.  Across the border  from El Paso, in Juarez, where the gun laws are more to Bloomberg’s  liking, the murder rate is over 100 per 100,000.

Adding to the bad news for gun control  supporters, the District of Columbia and Chicago—the handgun bans of  which were repealed following the Supreme Court’s decisions in the Heller and McDonald cases in 2008 and 2010—experienced decreases in murder of eight percent and six percent, respectively.

[/td][/tr][/table]

[WNY_Whitetailer]

Ironic how that all works, isn't it?

[Mr VJP]

I guess steve863 has decided not to reply to this post, which I put up specifically for his information.  Restrictive gun laws will cause violent crime rates like murder and rape to go up.  It is a fact.

[steve863]

I guess steve863 has decided not to reply to this post, which I put up specifically for his information.  Restrictive gun laws will cause violent crime rates like murder and rape to go up.  It is a fact.

So it's the lunatic calling my name??  Why don't you tell us where you cut and pasted this article from??  Why don't we go and let everyone carry a gun with NO questions asked, like you would surely like.  We can check back in few years from now and see how it all went. LOL  I for one don't need a gun strapped to my pants when I pull them down to sit on the can in my own bathroom like paranoid people like you need to.  Good day.

[nyantler]

Curious what particlular gun control laws you like Steve...?

[steve863]

Curious what particlular gun control laws you like Steve...?

A good many actually, many serve a very good purpose.  All I know is that there are PLENTY of screwed up, mentally deranged people running around out there.  Some unfortunately already own guns, while others can purchase guns with little to NO questions asked in many places around this country.  Many of you think arming everyone at all times is a solution to all the worlds problems and that there would be ZERO crime.  To be quite honest, I think people who think that are also mentally challenged.  I have said it one hundred times before.  It is way easier killing someone with a gun than it is any other way.  Do you guys really think that the easy accessibility of guns in this nation has NO effect on our high murder rate compared to most any civilized nation?  Of course you don't, since you guys post BS flawed statistics trying to say that arming everyone would bring crime rates down.  I don't give a hoot if I am thought of as an anti-gunner or whatever.  I am a realist, who happens to also be a gun owner, but can see the BS and smoke and mirrors that some like to spew about the gun issue.  BS is surely spewed from the other side as well, but I will never be convinced that the pro-gun sides stats and rhetoric are any better than the anti's side.  Everyone skews thing to make themselves look better, when the reality is something very different. That is all I will add to this thread, for I could care less discussing anything on a thread started by a looney tune like VJP.  He tried to call me out, so I replied, otherwise I could give a damn what he thinks.

[Doc]

Like nyantler, I am always curious as to just where some people really want to draw the line when it comes to gun ownership. All I ever hear is that the NRA is evil and that wackos believe that the books and books of worthless redundant laws might actually stretch the meaning of common sense and many are really designed to harrass and frustrate legitimate private ownership of firearms in general. In fact some of these arguments make me wonder if these people really believe there is any legitimate reason for private ownership of firearms.

I'm just saying that we have entirely too many people that are totally committed toward eliminating private ownership and use of firearms. We probably don't need gun control zealots speaking for them from supposedly within our ranks.

[Mr VJP]

Just as I thought,  Steve asks me to look up the FBI figures in a prior post, and when I do, he loses his cool and calls me names.  Time to up your medication steve. 

Don't you realize disarming law abiding, productive citizens simply amounts to removing their right to self defense?  What's wrong with responsible law abiding citizens being able to defend themselves with a gun after they have done everything the government, the anti's, and the analytically challenged gun owners have asked them to do, in order to be able to carry a gun?

I trust my fellow Americans until they prove they can not be trusted.  What you seem to prefer is tyranny.  You may not realize it, but that's what it is.

Why do I carry a firearm?  Because a cop is too heavy, and when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.  Your pompous, self righteous, arrogance is very harmful to the rights of law abiding gun owners and American freedom in general.  But with the anger issue you obviously have, I can see why you don't think most people should be able to carry a gun.  Trouble is, your ego believes most people are like you.  Thankfully, we're not, lest America be a police state by now.

  steve863 

• 
   
• Hero Member 
  
• http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/star.gif[/img]http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/star.gif[/img]http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/star.gif[/img]http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/star.gif[/img]http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/star.gif[/img] 
  
• Posts: 970 
  
• NY Hunter 
  
•  
  • 
     
• http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/icons/profile_sm.gif[/img] 
  
• http://huntingny.com/forums/Themes/ganymedes_20rc3/images/im_off.gif[/img]
  

          Re: Worlds Largest Army!  « Reply #42 on: May 05, 2011, 08:54:54 am »   

• 
   
• Quote
  

        Quote from: Mr VJP on May 04, 2011, 06:15:54 pm  <blockquote>

They claim these laws save lives  but can't explain why the states with the most "common sense" gun laws  have the highest gun crime rates.

[img alt=:]http://huntingny.com/forums/Smileys/akyhne/rolleyes.gif[/img]

</blockquote>   

This is actually not true.  I will let you look it up for yourself but even last year, states like Nevada, Louisiana, New Mexico, Tennessee, Arizona topped the list according to FBI figures as far as crime was concerned and none of these states have restrictive gun laws.

[nyantler]

I'm not sure Steve where you heard anyone say anything about everyone being able to own a gun, what I hear is gun owners sick of repeated anti gun bills that don't work continually being proposed just to harrass legal gun owners in America... I also haven't seen a post where anyone has mentioned that arming as many people as possible would result in ZERO crime... if you're going to make yourself out to be a realist.. you need to use real examples of things that actually are occuring to back up your position. The real truth is that gun laws adopted 40 years ago have covered most issues designed to keep guns out of the hands of people that shouldn't own them... the laws proposed today are simply designed to harrass legal gun onwership and move closer to disarming law abiding gun owners... a realist should be able to see that is what is "really" happening. Stats or no stats...

[steve863]

VJP, you are so full of it, it isn't even funny!  I don't know why I waste my time with a lunatic like you.  And you are the one in needs of meds, and not me.  I never have taken medication in my life.  Tough crap, if you don't like being called names. Don't call out my name when starting a thread and maybe you won't be called names.

Why don't you tell us where you cut and pasted your first post from?  Does the FBI make the distinction that the lower crime rate is due to more firearm ownership or does some gun advocate in an NRA publication?  I would bet it's the latter.  I never made the claim overall crime hasn't been going down in the nation.  The crime in NYC has been going down for years, and guess what?  It has RESTRICTIVE gun laws.  The majority of guns used in crimes there come from places that have laxed gun laws.  You carry a gun because you are afraid of your own shadow, boogey men, and have the need to make up for other thing you may lack.  I don't have such issues and don't feel that I need to be armed.  Enough said.

[steve863]

Case closed to where you pasted your article from.  LOL

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6832

[Dave]

If I can recall that in Florida they passed a right to carry law. The left outcry was murder and crime would rise but the opposite happened crime went down year after year.  This law was passed many years ago and the statistics are the proof which gun control advocated will never admit. You are safer when citizens can defend themselves and the criminals know that, probably why right to carry firearms works in Florida.

Dave

[steve863]

If I can recall that in Florida they passed a right to carry law. The left outcry was murder and crime would rise but the opposite happened crime went down year after year.  This law was passed many years ago and the statistics are the proof which gun control advocated will never admit. You are safer when citizens can defend themselves and the criminals know that, probably why right to carry firearms works in Florida.

Dave

Yeah, and instant background checks for firearms purchases became law in the early 90's also.  This common sense law at least keeps some undesirables from purchasing firearms from licensed dealers.  I will never accept the claim that allowing people to carry lowers crime, while a common sense law like this didn't have a positive effect also.  More people don't carry in comparison to those that do.  I highly doubt the ones who carry are the ones scaring criminals away from a life of crime.  If anyone is scared it is the ones who are carrying.

[Dave]

If I can recall that in Florida they passed a right to carry law. The left outcry was murder and crime would rise but the opposite happened crime went down year after year.  This law was passed many years ago and the statistics are the proof which gun control advocated will never admit. You are safer when citizens can defend themselves and the criminals know that, probably why right to carry firearms works in Florida.

Dave

Yeah, and instant background checks for firearms purchases became law in the early 90's also.  This common sense law at least keeps some undesirables from purchasing firearms from licensed dealers.  I will never accept the claim that allowing people to carry lowers crime, while a common sense law like this didn't have a positive effect also.  More people don't carry in comparison to those that do.  I highly doubt the ones who carry are the ones scaring criminals away from a life of crime.  If anyone is scared it is the ones who are carrying.

Steve, it seems you get confused with the facts or you just don't agree because they don't fit your opinion.

Dave

[steve863]

What am I confused about?  If YOU think the right to carry is what is bringing down crime rates, are you at the same time saying that NICS checks have not been a factor for the better??  Simple question here.  The problem here is that some of you guys can't see things from other peoples perspectives.  You only swallow what the NRA tells you and can't see the legitimate concerns that every day people may have about the ease of which guns can be had in this country.  Not like there has ever been a shortage of gun violence in this country, and NO one will convince me that the number of guns out there hasn't had a direct effect on this.  Look, I own a cabinet full of guns.  I enjoyed hunting and shooting with them over the years.  I don't need the NRA or other fanatics telling me what to believe.  I call it the way I see it, and I can tell you that a good many gun laws are their for a good reason.  Many gun fanatics would love it if ALL gun laws were scrapped.  I for one say BS to that and won't shy away from saying it just because this is a hunting forum where some people will accuse me of being an anti.  They can suck on a lemon for all I care.

[virgil]

are there any articles or stats about legal gun owners actually using their weapons to fend off a crime?  i can't recall seeing any.  not sure how you can deduce that more legally owned guns are the reason for lower crime rates.

also, isn't it a commonly known fact that guns in the home are statistically more likely to be used in a fatal accident than in stopping a home invasion or violent crime?

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Knock yourselves out...

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[Dave]

What's your problem? Why are you so angry?

Dave

[ELMER J. FUDD]

You talkin' to me? That's too much copying and pasting!

[Dave]

What's your problem? Why are you so angry?

Dave

Sorry guys this was meant for Steve

Dave

[steve863]

What's your problem? Why are you so angry?

Dave

Sorry guys this was meant for Steve

Dave

Why do you perceive me as being angry??  Some of you fellas are the ones who are having a hard time accepting that there are many gun owners out there who understand that some gun laws are needed and make sense.  VJP being the main culprit since he is singling me out at the beginning of this thread.  I am only making the point that ALL gun owners don't think exactly the way the NRA does.  He has a coronary whenever anyone takes issue with anything he posts and thinks that ALL gun owners should think like him.  You should try reading his posts from the past for proof.  If he or anyone else here doesn't like some of us posting OUR opinions, they could as I said before, suck on a lemon for all I care.  That is not being angry, only being completely honest.  I won't agree with him or anyone, just because it's how gun owners should be thinking according to people like them.

[Dave]

What's your problem? Why are you so angry?

Dave

Sorry guys this was meant for Steve

Dave

Why do you perceive me as being angry??  Some of you fellas are the ones who are having a hard time accepting that there are many gun owners out there who understand that some gun laws are needed and make sense.  VJP being the main culprit since he is singling me out at the beginning of this thread.  I am only making the point that ALL gun owners don't think exactly the way the NRA does.  He has a coronary whenever anyone takes issue with anything he posts and thinks that ALL gun owners should think like him.  You should try reading his posts from the past for proof.  If he or anyone else here doesn't like some of us posting OUR opinions, they could as I said before, suck on a lemon for all I care.  That is not being angry, only being completely honest.  I won't agree with him or anyone, just because it's how gun owners should be thinking according to people like them.

Just responding to how you respond and it seems like you are angry and over reacting.

Dave

[Mr VJP]

If somone posts erroneous information as fact and then gets upset when they are proven wrong, they should check their facts.  No gun owner expects all gun owners to think like they do, but they should be able to expect them to be on the side of the 2nd Amendment, self defense and the right of every law abiding individual to own a gun, without unjust and oppressive regulation from the government.  If one is against such gun ownership, they either have an unwarranted fear of guns in general, or do not understand the role guns play in the hands of responsible American citizens.  And through the right of American freedom of association, any gun owner can choose not to associate with anyone, for any reason.

Feel free to re-post any of my past posts as "proof" to the contrary.

Read the post above from Elmer J. Fudd.  It is a very good post and those are the facts.  If after studying that post one still feels the same, they are not open minded and are pursuing an agenda against the 2nd Amendment rights of American citizens.

When new gun laws have no benefit to society and will not reduce crime, on the contrary, will increase crime, they should not be supported, no matter how much common sense one falsely believes they have. The issue is very clear when looked at logically.  One side trusts citizens until they prove they are not trustworthy.  The other side does not trust them, no matter how trustworthy they prove themslves to be.  One side is for freedom, the other is for selective dictatorship.

Read the above post from Elmer J.Fudd and try to argue with those facts.  It is an excellent post and should put the whole debate to rest once and for all.

[jusputtn]

I'm not going to search out stats to support my view for pro-gun laws, just some thoughts here.

Even if the murder rate where you live is .0000001%, you could be the one to find yourself to be the .0000001% unlucky winner (Most of us buy lottery tickets and the odds are much worse).  You should have the right to defend yourself and family.

The guns rights issue is far deeper seated than self-defense rights alone.  The 2nd amendment was written by people freshly escaped from tyranny.  They knew what they were writing and why.  Think about it.

Most gun laws only affect the people that we don't need to protect ourselves from, because we are the only ones that follow the laws.  With murder being highly illegal, do you really think that someone bent on murder is going to say "wait a minute....what I'm about to do is a weapons violation....my bad, better walk away" right in the midst of it all.

The majority rules, don't allow silly anti-gun laws to make a majority out of criminals. 

Why is it that some of our legislators/leaders don't trust their constituents? 

[wztirem]

I guess steve863 has decided not to reply to this post, which I put up specifically for his information.  Restrictive gun laws will cause violent crime rates like murder and rape to go up.  It is a fact.

So it's the lunatic calling my name??  Why don't you tell us where you cut and pasted this article from??  Why don't we go and let everyone carry a gun with NO questions asked, like you would surely like.  We can check back in few years from now and see how it all went. LOL  I for one don't need a gun strapped to my pants when I pull them down to sit on the can in my own bathroom like paranoid people like you need to.  Good day.

I think we should have a separate forum for this "Lunatic" where all his posts could be directed. ???