IS THIS BAITING

[Dave]

By Jove , I think you've got it G-man ! A good assessment . Now I expect there will be more BS arguments about it ! http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/bad_3_wait.gif[/img]

Eddie, I agree with you too the BS never stops!!!!!!!!

Dave

[G-Man]

Sometimes you have to prod the cattle a little.... :  besides its slow this time of year...just a little fuel for the fire... ;D

[nyantler]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

[fasteddie]

As far as the food plots go , maybe we have evolved enough to become smarter hunters than our predecessors .

My son has a food plot on his property . We hunt the trails a few hundred yards from them . I havn't hunted there in a couple years as it is too hilly . He planted Brassica and chickory . The chickery gets eaten by turkeys . Any turkeys he has killed have been with the bow .

[Doc]

I'm sure everyone has a different view of what hunting should be, and the beauty of the activity iis that we can each approach it with whatever philosophy we want (within the confines of the law). If some want to incorporate farming practices as part of their hunting activities, that's legal and is a legitimate activity. For me it simply is not part of the way I approach hunting and as I have said before that doesn't make me right and anyone else wrong. It's just the hunting philosophy that I have stated before. I choose to hunt the deer as I find them without trying to condition them or influence whatever patterns their habitat puts on them. The simplest way that I can explain it all is: I'm a hunter and not a deer farmer. I don't want to be engaged in things that begin to blur the lines between the two. It's a philosophy that I maintain for myself, and I have no intentions of forcing it on anybody or trying to change anyone's mind.

[burmjohn]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot. 

[Dave]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot.

John I have planted apple trees up state about 5 years ago and up to now they have not produced. But this year looks much better there were lots of buds and  I am starting to see little apples on 6 of the 7 trees I have planted. And there are many not just two or three so I may have some apples to pick this year for me and the critters.?

Dave

[nyantler]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot.

In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting.

[Pat Rockets]

Ive always questioned why some  are ok with food plotting and its purposes..but scoff at feeders...its the same thing..focusing deer to one area..by use of food..or feeding habits..closely monitored..and hunted

[Doc]

By the way, one more thing that might be an interesting twist on this discussion relates to something I saw on TV. Modifying the land to suit hunting convenience is a long way from a new idea. Long before the first Europeans came to this continent, the Indians were regularly burning off large sections of forested land because they noticed that burnt over areas always became lush green vegetated areas suitable for grazing and browse which attracted animals for their hunting. So, they were in affect creating food plots for the specific reason of attracting animals to hunt. So you guys who are involved in food plotting are in pretty good company when it comes to modifying the land for hunting convenience.

Lol.... That doesn't mean that I am going to run right out and start creating a food plot. In my mind, I still separate out that activity as something far removed from the actual act of hunting, and I still prefer to hunt the deer as I find them without trying to mold their habits to accomodate my hunting. But I thought it was interesting to note that today's hunters are not the first "food-plotters".

[fasteddie]

Ive always questioned why some  are ok with food plotting and its purposes..but scoff at feeders...its the same thing..focusing deer to one area..by use of food..or feeding habits..closely monitored..and hunted

A food plot could be a half acre to 5 acres to whatever . Deer could approach from many spots .

Feeders could be 25 square feet spread . Deer go directly to them . http://www.downsouthhuntingforums.com/images/smiles/2cents.gif[/img]

[Pat Rockets]

So what yer sayin then is that a feeder would be better at exploiting the feeding instinct..if i had a feeder attached to a truck..or atv..size is irrelivent..its the purpose

[burmjohn]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot.

In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting.

I get what your saying, but at the same time you have no problem hunting a human made apple orchard.  BTW, my fields were created by my old man who is not a deer hunter.  His intentions were habitat improvement... So I guess that goes out the window.

[G-Man]

Isn't the modivation for all hunting to kill game (hopefully as quickly as possible) So isn't creating a foodplot to attract game smart hunting? yes you don't have to do it,but doesn't it make sence to put in the energy and time when you you have extra?(summer/spring) than it is to just use energy walking thru areas stalking hoping you find what your looking for? Who is actually a more dedicated hunter the one that puts in 20 hrs preparing an ambush spot or the one that puts in 20 hours walking around? Seems the same to me.... Nothing to question they both want their game just go about it using different methods. Its like calling a elevated stand hunter a cheater  because he doesn't walk or hunt from the ground.

[WNYBuckHunter]

So what yer sayin then is that a feeder would be better at exploiting the feeding instinct..if i had a feeder attached to a truck..or atv..size is irrelivent..its the purpose

I think what eddie is trying to say is that a feeder brings the deer into a much smaller zone than your typical food plot. The advantage to that is a no brainer. Have you ever hunted a food plot, or farm field or any large sized food source for that matter? Deer rarely come in on the exact same trails every day or at the same times. Ive been in situations many times where Ill have 5 stands just off of a field and no matter what stand I sit in, the deer always seem to pick a different trail that day. Now when you are setup over a bait pile, or feeder, you can cover the entire area plus some of the travel routes into it with a bow. Plus, if you put the feeder on a timer, you can try to time the deer to come in within a certain time frame. Not the same thing as planting a food plot, not even close.

Just my opinion though. 

[Doc]

Isn't the modivation for all hunting to kill game (hopefully as quickly as possible) So isn't creating a foodplot to attract game smart hunting? yes you don't have to do it,but doesn't it make sence to put in the energy and time when you you have extra?(summer/spring) than it is to just use energy walking thru areas stalking hoping you find what your looking for? Who is actually a more dedicated hunter the one that puts in 20 hrs preparing an ambush spot or the one that puts in 20 hours walking around? Seems the same to me.... Nothing to question they both want their game just go about it using different methods. Its like calling a elevated stand hunter a cheater  because he doesn't walk or hunt from the ground.

Yes, unfortunately a huge emphasis has been placed on the "as quickly as possible" part of all that and additionally "in the easiest way possible". In fact almost all other aspects of hunting are being subordinated to those two goals. Carried to it's furthest, canned hunts would satisfy both those goals and many would call that "smart hunting" also.

I read an article once that was about a hunt involving timed feeders where the deer had actually been conditioned to respond to the sound of the feeder going off. These guys not only knew the exact square foot where the deer was going to pose for the shot, but also the exact time. I suppose that's "smart hunting" too. Except, in my world that isn't actual hunting at all. That is simply training a once-wild animal to respond to a dinner bell (wasn't there some guy named Pavlof that did the same thing with dogs? .... lol).

So for me at least there is kind of a loose limit as to just what I will do in the name of hunting. I personally draw the line at training deer, or conditioning them to respond to something that I put there. I prefer to go up against them in their own un-modified turf and leave their feeding habits up to them for me to discover and try to capitalize on. To me that is part of the hunt. I have set up a distinct difference between hunting and participating in forms of deer farming and I really don't want to mix the two even a little bit, whether that mix is baiting or food plotting. It's not a distinction that everyone must make, but in my hunting, I choose to hunt the deer as I find them and not try to alter their habits or nature. I just get a real funny feeling about stretching the meaning of hunting activities that much.

[nyantler]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot.

In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting.

I get what your saying, but at the same time you have no problem hunting a human made apple orchard.  BTW, my fields were created by my old man who is not a deer hunter.  His intentions were habitat improvement... So I guess that goes out the window.

It doesn't go out the window because one person that doesn't hunt planted a food crop... John, you know and I know what the real motivation behind food plots are... if you say you don't then you're not being hinest... and for the record I personally don't hunt over anything... I track deer with a gun and I still hunt with my bow... if I happen to hunt into a food source it would be because that is where my hunt has taken me... and I know that is not the norm... my opinion is based on my own hunting and what I feel is hunting... if guys want to hunt over food plots and feeders and apple piles... go ahead if it makes their hunting experience fun for them... In my eyes it will never be hunting.

[burmjohn]

We're kinda splitting hairs here... the motivation is what is questionable when planting food plots... most of you that plant food plots would never have done so if not for the fact that you deer hunt and were looking to find a way to either attract deer or keep deer on your property. It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer... most, if not all, food plots are planted by hunters with that motivation... then they justify it by saying that it feeds all the wildlife... wildlife which have lived and remain living in that area for eons...long before any thought of food plots existed.. the truth is that the food plots would never have been planted if not for your want of attracting deer to kill ... it's legal and I don't think it's necessarily wrong... just not part of what I call hunting. An old apple orchard has become part of the habitat over the years and will be there long after we are gone... the food plots will only be there as long as those that plant them still hunt... thats the difference... and if that is what makes your deer hunting experience better for you then have at it... it is just personally not what I consider part of hunting and not my cup of tea.

Thats not all true... With the fields we created, even unplanted for years will have vegetation what would not grow there if it was a wooded lot.  The same goes for when you thin out your tree's and cut trails.  We hunted a old property when I was younger, there was no planting of anything there for 10+ years, yet it strives with wild grass, hay and other things.  None the less, I don't think there ever needs to be justification for a food plot, it undoubtedly benefits all wildlife.  I'm planting apple tree's on mine too, so I guess long after I'm gone, the next guy that hunts near it doesnt have to call it a food plot.

In 100 years those food plots left unattended will be woods.. I am a metal detector and spend a lot of time around old cellar holes of old farm houses of 100 years or more ago... there is not a single field left on any of the properties that hasn't been consumed by a canopy of trees from the woods that has grown in the old fields.. the only visible planting left in ALL of these old farms is the apple orchard and usually a lush bed of murtle... like I said... the motivation for food plots is always the same.. to attract deer for a hunter to kill... none of which you would be doing if you weren't a hunter...TO ME that is not part of hunting.

I get what your saying, but at the same time you have no problem hunting a human made apple orchard.  BTW, my fields were created by my old man who is not a deer hunter.  His intentions were habitat improvement... So I guess that goes out the window.

It doesn't go out the window because one person that doesn't hunt planted a food crop... John, you know and I know what the real motivation behind food plots are... if you say you don't then you're not being hinest... and for the record I personally don't hunt over anything... I track deer with a gun and I still hunt with my bow... if I happen to hunt into a food source it would be because that is where my hunt has taken me... and I know that is not the norm... my opinion is based on my own hunting and what I feel is hunting... if guys want to hunt over food plots and feeders and apple piles... go ahead if it makes their hunting experience fun for them... In my eyes it will never be hunting.

If I had the $ and time I'd have a lot more plots to be honest... Ones I would hunt near, ones I wouldn't go near (sanctuary's).  The big boys don't hit the plots during the day anyways, which is why 99% of the time im off about 800 yards from where the our two small plots are.  But you can not argue that they are good for the wildlife, all wildlife.

[nyantler]

Nope I can't argue that they are not good for wildlife..they are

[cwhite]

"It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer..."

I plant 6 different plots with numbers 7 and 8 in the works.  One thing for sure is I do not need any of them to improve my chances of killing a deer.  Plots are more than just killing an animal. 

- They are great places to bring my 5 and 8 year old boys hunting and have the best chances to see deer.  Try still hunting with a 5 year old. 

- They make your hunting season last 9 months a year. 

- I've watched body weights increase by 15-20 pounds over the course of 3 years.

- It is nice to go to these plots early june and find a pair of fawns stashed in the grass with their spots blending in with the white clover tops or watching a hen teach her 8 babies how to scratch and feed. 

- They give me something to do other than sit on the couch and watch Swam People re-runs. 

Several people I know have plots as a hobby.  These guys are great hunters who have killed numerous trophy bucks without food plots.  They plant food plots, not for the satisfaction of killing a hungry deer, but for all the other reasons mentioned.  A food plot isn't for everyone, but don't lump a food plot in the same discussion as a pile of apples, corn, and carrots.  They are not remotely the same.

[nyantler]

"It's not so much that you hunt near or over them that makes it questionableto me.. it's more that you think you needed to in order to improve your chances of killing a deer..."

I plant 6 different plots with numbers 7 and 8 in the works.  One thing for sure is I do not need any of them to improve my chances of killing a deer.  Plots are more than just killing an animal. 

- They are great places to bring my 5 and 8 year old boys hunting and have the best chances to see deer.  Try still hunting with a 5 year old. 

- They make your hunting season last 9 months a year. 

- I've watched body weights increase by 15-20 pounds over the course of 3 years.

- It is nice to go to these plots early june and find a pair of fawns stashed in the grass with their spots blending in with the white clover tops or watching a hen teach her 8 babies how to scratch and feed. 

- They give me something to do other than sit on the couch and watch Swam People re-runs. 

Several people I know have plots as a hobby.  These guys are great hunters who have killed numerous trophy bucks without food plots.  They plant food plots, not for the satisfaction of killing a hungry deer, but for all the other reasons mentioned.  A food plot isn't for everyone, but don't lump a food plot in the same discussion as a pile of apples, corn, and carrots.  They are not remotely the same.

They are absolutely the same if put there for the motivation of attracting deer... and all the things you mentioned above are great things about food plots... yet you know as well as I that isn't the norm for most that plant them... they are strictly for attracting deer to hunt.. just because there are some like yourself that have evolved from that idea to the points you made above doesn't dismiss the initial motivation for the concept of food plots... and that would be to attract deer for harvesting...

[Pat Rockets]

Roger that

[nyantler]

I forgot to mention to cwhite.. that all the things you mentioned in your post.. I have experienced myself and with my children on my hunting land... and I have NO food plots... just natural woods and open fields

[growalot]

Lets see NYA...

so far you have lined "ppl " that plant plots up with Ted Bundy and not being "Hunters".....So I have what  the ethics of Ted Bundy when I'm in the woods where I have now 14 plots spread over 73 acres and the only one hunting and I'm not really a "hunter"?....

but when I'm at camp with no plots hunting ...I'm not akin to a sereil killer and in your eyes I'm a real " Hunter ".....Wow how Kind of you to make such a heady distinction....I bet you do sleep well at night...it takes a lot of work to think like that

PS....I sure ppl have many reasons for plotting...mine started out with buying a farm where the farmer plowed his fields...then retired....have never disced or dragged the furrows....after 4 years of rattling my internal organs every time I bush hogged the only open area left....all the rest of farm grew trees in the furrows...I decided it was time to improve the property...which became a hobby

[Pat Rockets]

[[[[[[[ld have put in a putting green..or anything else..but  being a hunter you decided to go with food plots..for what again? Oh yeah attracting deer..email]u[/email]email]o[/email]email]c[/email]email] [/email]email]u[/email]email]o[/email]email]Y[/email]