Texas Heart Shot

[WNYBuckHunter]

I know he is.

[Doc]

• Doc is very adept at rewriting quotes...
  

Yes, I think you are referring to another thread where I put your exact words in front of you and you still continued to dance and squirm away from what you actually said, aren't you? We already know from that other thread that you feel perfectly comfortable running away from your own words even when they are laid in front of you. So that's probably a subject that you would be smarter not even bringing up.

[Doc]

Why would I bother to reply to something you are talking about that was taken out of context? Typical spin BS, followed by a weak insult, your specialty.

Yeah, not to mention that all this phoney nonsense gives you a way to avoid responding to my reply. I don't think you realize how transparent that tactic is getting to be.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yeah, not to mention that all this phoney nonsense gives you a way to avoid responding to my reply. I don't think you realize how transparent that tactic is getting to be.

BS. I already covered the points you said in my earlier statement which said I dont find my shots acceptable in anything more than a tennis ball sized area, not a dinner plate sized area as most people find acceptable. If I cant have my shots tightened up to that size before the season comes around, I wouldnt hunt. Like I said, you took part of my statement and spun it out of context then expected me to respond. Your next spin tactic will probably involve mixing the long shots thread with this one and youll start talking about 50 or 60 yard Texas Heart Shots.

[nyantler]

BS. I already covered the points you said in my earlier statement which said I dont find my shots acceptable in anything more than a tennis ball sized area, not a dinner plate sized area as most people find acceptable. If I cant have my shots tightened up to that size before the season comes around, I wouldnt hunt. Like I said, you took part of my statement and spun it out of context then expected me to respond. Your next spin tactic will probably involve mixing the long shots thread with this one and youll start talking about 50 or 60 yard Texas Heart Shots.

And when he has no response he uses the "you're running from the question" post... you'll see that one quite a bit as well from him.. and for the record .. any exact words you may have use on the other thread was not the entire exact qoute... only the part you cherry picked to create your point

[First-light]

In hunting, a Texas heart shot is a shot fired at the base of the tail of an animal facing directly away from the shooter. The term is euphemistic argot. The objective of such a shot may be to break the spinal cord, break the large bones of the hips, cut the femoral artery, or have the bullet penetrate the length of the animal's body until reaching the heart and lung area.

The shot carries many ethical concerns. It is frowned upon by many hunters; it is generally recommended only as a last resort finishing shot on a fleeing wounded animal. A shot that breaks the spine or hip should instantly kill or incapacitate an animal; however, damage to the digestive tract will likely lead to inhumane suffering and affect much of the animal's edible meat if it is recovered.

The term "Texas heart shot" may be used in other contexts simply to refer to any gunshot wound to the buttocks region.

I guess they don't teach this shot in the hunter safety course??

[Doc]

And when he has no response he uses the "you're running from the question" post... you'll see that one quite a bit as well from him.. and for the record .. any exact words you may have use on the other thread was not the entire exact qoute... only the part you cherry picked to create your point

And you are still going it ..... lol. Give it up. The credibility of your posts has already been shown to be worthless and not worth replying to. Your words mean nothing to you or anyone else 10 seconds after you type them.

[Doc]

BS. I already covered the points you said in my earlier statement which said I dont find my shots acceptable in anything more than a tennis ball sized area, not a dinner plate sized area as most people find acceptable. If I cant have my shots tightened up to that size before the season comes around, I wouldnt hunt. Like I said, you took part of my statement and spun it out of context then expected me to respond. Your next spin tactic will probably involve mixing the long shots thread with this one and youll start talking about 50 or 60 yard Texas Heart Shots.

You are the one that made mention of the dinner plate. I don't know what the purpose of that reference was, but I responded to that. To use a phrase that you would be lost without, your response is indeed a case of "cherry picking" in terms of what you want to respond to and what you do not.

Would you care to respond to the rest of what I said in that same reply. Perhaps I have to present it sentence by sentence for you. Just to refresh your memory as to what you chose to ignore about your tennis ball archery range groups:

"And I guess you didn't learn anything from the long distance thread regarding the foolishness of trying to relate archery range marksmanship to what can reliably be done afield while hunting. As noted in that thread, unpredictable things happen when in hunting situations and taking a shot that requires you to be exactly as good as you are on the range is simply not the best and most responsible shot selection. That's why your hunter training instructor stressed that your shot selection be limited to "high percentage shots" (remember that term?). That would mean not looking for the smallest kill zone you can find, but the biggest and accepting nothing less"

No on second thought, don't bother responding. We don't need a bunch of more pages of you dancing and prancing around. There's no need to waste anymore time on that sort of nonsense.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just for my own sanity Doc, I dont see a question there.

I will agree that they stressed high percentage shots. I believe the phrase thye used in my class (YEARS AGO so pardon if I get it wrong) was take the shot you can't miss. That said I do have to question your last sentence. It that is your stance on how you hunt or believe others should, the only acceptable shot is a straight broadside since it offers the largest target area. The quartering away closes that window and would be unacceptable. Am I understanding you right?

[Doc]

Just for my own sanity Doc, I dont see a question there.

I will agree that they stressed high percentage shots. I believe the phrase thye used in my class (YEARS AGO so pardon if I get it wrong) was take the shot you can't miss. That said I do have to question your last sentence. It that is your stance on how you hunt or believe others should, the only acceptable shot is a straight broadside since it offers the largest target area. The quartering away closes that window and would be unacceptable. Am I understanding you right?

There is no question there just like the pie-plate comment wasn't a question. It is merely a series of statements just like the one that wnybowhunter picked out of the middle to comment on relative to the pie-plate groups.

A quartering shot is just a variation of the broadside and still is basically a heart-lung shot. I remember back in the dark ages, I received a booklet on recommended shots when I took my bowhunter safety course. In that booklet they had illustrations of ethical, high percentage shot selections. The quartering shots were included. All recommended shots involved the heart-lung area. I assume those illustrations are still in use. I use that as a compilation of what most hunters regard as being targets of a high percentage of success. I actually took that stuff seriously. I can't recall ever seeing anything that regarded a Texas heart shot as being an ethical or high percentage shot. My comments not only represent my own feelings on proper shot selection, but are based on what I was taught and what has been taught throughout the state and designed by a lot of people who are a lot smarter at that sort of thing than myself. I don't know, maybe things in the hunter safety training have changed, such that they are now recommending rump shots, but I seriously doubt it. However, if someone shows me where a Texas heart shot is now a recommended and taught as an ethical shot I will stand corrected.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You are the one that made mention of the dinner plate. I don't know what the purpose of that reference was, but I responded to that. To use a phrase that you would be lost without, your response is indeed a case of "cherry picking" in terms of what you want to respond to and what you do not.

Would you care to respond to the rest of what I said in that same reply. Perhaps I have to present it sentence by sentence for you. Just to refresh your memory as to what you chose to ignore about your tennis ball archery range groups:

"And I guess you didn't learn anything from the long distance thread regarding the foolishness of trying to relate archery range marksmanship to what can reliably be done afield while hunting. As noted in that thread, unpredictable things happen when in hunting situations and taking a shot that requires you to be exactly as good as you are on the range is simply not the best and most responsible shot selection. That's why your hunter training instructor stressed that your shot selection be limited to "high percentage shots" (remember that term?). That would mean not looking for the smallest kill zone you can find, but the biggest and accepting nothing less"

No on second thought, don't bother responding. We don't need a bunch of more pages of you dancing and prancing around. There's no need to waste anymore time on that sort of nonsense.

You didnt ask me any question in that statement. Anyone with half a brain cell can see right through the nonsense you keep coming up with.

Heres what I said...

"No I caught it, and still say its a ridiculous comparison. I dont know about you, but i tend to try and keep my shots well within the size of a dinner plate. Actually I find that within the size of a tennis ball of the spot Im aiming at is acceptable to me. A Texas heart shot can be accomplished within that size of an area."

and out of that all that you referenced was the dinner plate sized area, not a tennis ball, the dinner plate. Why did you decide to choose that part? To try and fabricate a point. I didnt bother to respond to it because you CHERRY PICKED my statement. You also have failed to note that I am not advocating taking the shot, just commenting that if done correctly, it is effective.

Oh, and remember, ethics are nothing more than opinions, not any kind of formal, written code.

[Doc]

You only respond to questions?? ...... since when?

But since you brought up the subject of picking and choosing what to respond to, I have to say that you failed to respond to my comments about choosing high percentage shots and the idea of purposely choosing the smallest lethal target on a deer, and the material that you were taught in your hunter training course on proper shot selection vs the crap you are spewing now, or the goofy idea of purposely choosing a shot selection that requires you to shoot as good at your best day on the archery range (your tennis ball reference). So get off your high horse about "cherry picking". You certainly are no stranger to that in fact you are an expert.

Oh, and by the way, my response to the dinner plate part of your comment was simply to leave no doubt that that is not an adequate group when taking the ridiculous shots that you are claiming are so effective. I can't for the life of me understand why you even included that in the sentence as it made absolutely no sense, but I simply pointed out that your dinner plate reference really was a ridiculous thing to even add into the discussion.

But anyway, here we have another good example of what I said at the the end of my last reply. The worthless dancing and prancing and deflection that is the constant hallmark of any of your discussions. We have a topic going on the validity of the Texas heart shot and you have steered the discussion toward dinner plates. What the heck is the point of trying to discuss anything with you when that seems to be your primary debate tactic with just about every topic? It's pretty much impossible to keep you on topic long enough for you to learn anything. You obviously would rather talk about spinning and cherry picking or any of your other over-used meaningless catch phrases. It really is getting tiresome.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Let me clear something up for you, since things seem to be getting foggy in your noggin.

First, I dont advocate people taking a THS. Ive made that perfectly clear. I only have siad that they are effective if done right. Personally, I wouldnt take one unless it was absolutely necessary for whatever reason.

Second, the only one under the delusion that the conversation is about dinner plates, is you.

Third, dont sit there and try and put your tactics upon anyone else, oh master of spin and BS.

Fourth, I never said I only answer or comment on questions. Theres a prime example of your fabrication technique.

Lastly, your lame insult attempts, are, and always have been, lame.

[Doc]

Let me clear something up for you, since things seem to be getting foggy in your noggin.

First, I dont advocate people taking a THS. Ive made that perfectly clear. I only have siad that they are effective if done right. Personally, I wouldnt take one unless it was absolutely necessary for whatever reason.

Second, the only one under the delusion that the conversation is about dinner plates, is you.

Third, dont sit there and try and put your tactics upon anyone else, oh master of spin and BS.

Fourth, I never said I only answer or comment on questions. Theres a prime example of your fabrication technique.

Lastly, your lame insult attempts, are, and always have been, lame.

And yet your every reply both in this thread and the other THS thread has been a valiant defense of that foolish shot. You claim that you would never take that shot unless it was absolutely necessary and yet you describe your tennis ball sized groups that you claim would be adequate to pull off a THS. You claim to have the skill to make that shot and you claim that it is as deadly as any heart-lung shot. If all that is true, why wouldn't you take that shot? Why aren't you advocating that other people that are as skilled as you take that shot? The fact is that you know it is a goofy shot. And you know that goofy shots are not effective shots and that there is no such thing as properly executed goofy shots. You have spent a lot of pages defending this BS, and frankly I think it represents a little more committment to that shot than you are now letting on.

As for the rest of your reply, that is just the pointless flailing around of someone who hasn't got a clue how to defend his nonsense anymore, and it really, doesn't even deserve a response. So, I won't bother.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Not at all Doc. I feel that I have the ability to take the shot if necessary, and the effectiveness is what it is. Id rather take the normal heart/lungs shot as its a much easier shot. You really should get that tendency to assume so much under control

[Paula]

BORING.....

[Dom]

BORING.....

you are absolutly right boring

[nyantler]

you are absolutly right boring

If you don't like what you're reading then post something interesting.. your posts don't have to be related to what others are talking about.. chime in... help get back on topic if thats what you want...

[Buckstopshere]

Well, I've killed deer with just about every shot imaginable with arrows, rifle rounds, shotgun slugs, round balls, and copper sabots, they have hit the deer in the top of the skull, between the eyes, through the boiler works, through both jugular veins, through the backbone, into the hip bone, up the pooper shute, down the throat, into the stomach, the liver, the lungs, the heart, many times through the heart, sometimes through the nexus between the heart and the lungs... But the shots impacted the animal not exactly where I was aiming in many of these, but I was still able to get the animal.

Just my two scents, about the THS..The shot is not a sure kill. Period.

Why take a shot that is not a sure kill? If the angle is a bit off it will exit the rib cage before the lungs. The THS should never be taken for that reason in my opinion. But if a quartering away deer jumps just right at the release, sometimes a THS happens.

Years ago I was up on a Pa. ridge in the oaks. I was up in a tree, on a limb with my long bow. A big doe came in, eating acorns. I shot at here with the long bow. She jumped the string, whirled and the arrow hit her in the hip.

Darn!!!! I thought, a wounded deer, as she bounded away with the arrow sticking up in the air out of her hip.

I was shocked when, before she got out of sight, she flipped over on her back and crashed and burned!

When I checked her out, the back leg was just about cut off, except for a bit of hide. Her femoral artery was cut.

That was luck...good luck. But the arrow did not hit where I was aiming.

[noahmstone]

When I was 6 or 7 years old i was ruined on the texas heart shot for life. My Father shot a beautiful 11 point broadside lung/heart shot. When he retrieved the deer it had been shot 5 times in the butt. The area he hunted was about 25-30 square miles of private land that had people hired to walk the "lines" during hunting season to keep tresspasser off. There were only a handfull of people allowed to hunt the land so he knew that one of his coworkers had "completely missed" that deer 2 weeks earlier. The deer had suffered for 2 weeks and was so full of infection it wasn't funny. My father was issued another tag from the ECO when they came to inspect the deer upon request.

I will take a lot of different shots but the texas heart shot is one shot can't bring myself to take. It might be an effective shot for some but I don't have the confidence in myself to take the shot and not have the deer suffer.

[nyantler]

No shot is a sure kill... some are better than others.. just like some hunters are better shots than others... I'll pick my own shots thank you... knowing what you are going to do after a shot is just as important as the initial shot... I never let a deer just lay there and die... if it means another shot to finish the job then so be it...after my first shot I immediately cut the distance on the deer so that the next shot will be that much closer if I need to take another...I have been fortunate to never have had a deer last long enough to get away or even out of gun range before dying

Many guys here talk about humanely shooting a deer yet... but don't talk the same about a shooting coyotes... or woodchucks... the idea is to kill the animal you are shooting at.. however that my happen... sometimes it is just uglier than others... some of you may think that a nice lung shot or a shot that puts a deer down immediately is always more humane... just because they aren't flailing around doesn't mean that they are any less alive... yet the hunter will stand there and watch the motionless deer gasps for breath for minutes before expiring because they don't want to spoil any meat...

I'll take the Texas heart shot any day with a shotgun or rifle.. knowing that unless I miss the deer completely... it will only be a matter of seconds before he is dead... even if its from a second or third bullet.

[Buckstopshere]

It is important to say the right thing to young, or new hunter...or those without a lot of experience killing deer. There are shots that are sure kills...but a hunter should always be ready to follow up with a second or third shot.

[nyantler]

It is important to say the right thing to young, or new hunter...or those without a lot of experience killing deer. There are shots that are sure kills...but a hunter should always be ready to follow up with a second or third shot.

I agree.. but there still is no shot that is a sure kill...unless you can make the shot...if there was a sure shot.. everyone would take it and nobody would miss where they were aiming... no shot is a sure shot... just higher percentage than others for hitting your target..

[adirondackbushwhack]

No shot is a sure kill... some are better than others.. just like some hunters are better shots than others... I'll pick my own shots thank you... knowing what you are going to do after a shot is just as important as the initial shot... I never let a deer just lay there and die... if it means another shot to finish the job then so be it...after my first shot I immediately cut the distance on the deer so that the next shot will be that much closer if I need to take another...I have been fortunate to never have had a deer last long enough to get away or even out of gun range before dying

Many guys here talk about humanely shooting a deer yet... but don't talk the same about a shooting coyotes... or woodchucks... the idea is to kill the animal you are shooting at.. however that my happen... sometimes it is just uglier than others... some of you may think that a nice lung shot or a shot that puts a deer down immediately is always more humane... just because they aren't flailing around doesn't mean that they are any less alive... yet the hunter will stand there and watch the motionless deer gasps for breath for minutes before expiring because they don't want to spoil any meat...

I'll take the Texas heart shot any day with a shotgun or rifle.. knowing that unless I miss the deer completely... it will only be a matter of seconds before he is dead... even if its from a second or third bullet.

I'm thinking you could hit the deer in the meat of the leg without missing it completely and it isn't likely to go down for a second easy shot to finish it and will likely get away if where you hunt is anything at all like where I hunt. Then too you could miss low and catch some belly and again it will run away to suffer. No I'm not thinking that with the THS you have either a down deer or a clean miss. You can more easily wound the deer with the THS then you can with a broadside heart lung shot mearly because a smaller miss with the THS leaves a wounded deer. That's the way I see it anyway.

[Buckstopshere]

When I pull back the bow and a buck or doe is within 20 yards. I know.

I know when I release the arrow, or when a buck or doe is within 200 yards with my .06, sometimes when in "the zone" I know it is a dead deer.

I know it at the time...of the shot, gun or bow. when you get in that pure concentration zone...it happens.

But sometimes, we choose to shoot when we shouldn't...kind of a "hail mary." Hope and a prayer.

Blast away. What's an arrow?

To me, part of the killing of deer...that part of hunting...is all about making a perfect shot...that is shot selection and knowing our limitations. To me, that is part of what hunting is all about.

Now you may think that there is no shot is a sure kill. But I beg to differ. Telling other hunters...categorically that it is OK to shoot at the butt of a deer going away is bad in my mind.

I understand that a perfect shot, right down the pooper shute, through the stomach, diaphram, and into the heart and lungs can be done. But it is too iffy for the average Joe Hunter to ever attempt and just bring grief and anxiety at the end of spotty blood trail that can't be followed any more.

People have asked me to help find there deer on poor hits...it is an exercise in frustration and certainly not something that we should encourage by saying it is okay to shoot at the butt of a deer.

It is not OK.