Contest Shut Down By Antis

[Five Seasons]

17 hours ago, chrisw said:

I'm sure roadkill and natural causes killed deer also account for a portion of that, how much who knows?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
 

it doesn't even matter though. It's mother nature. A percentage of those fawns were probably weak or had issues that lead them to be coyote food. So had the yotes not got them, mother nature would have found a way. If mother nature didn't find a way in the spring, eventually the land would work it out as there is only a certain number of animals (on both sides) that a land can support and sustain.

Again, i'm not anti-coyote, but "I'm saving the deer" is an absolutely pitiful argument unless you're trapping and killing 24/7 as the studies suggest is the only way. And even then the land has to be able to support the heard. 

[chrisw]

it doesn't even matter though. It's mother nature. A percentage of those fawns were probably weak or had issues that lead them to be coyote food. So had the yotes not got them, mother nature would have found a way. If mother nature didn't find a way in the spring, eventually the land would work it out as there is only a certain number of animals (on both sides) that a land can support and sustain.
Again, i'm not anti-coyote, but "I'm saving the deer" is an absolutely pitiful argument unless you're trapping and killing 24/7 as the studies suggest is the only way. And even then the land has to be able to support the heard. 

Agreed, it can be argued that too many deer in an area is worse for the deer than coyotes are. Fawn mortality is roughly 50% both with and without predators present as studies have shown. Throw in a wet spring and fawns have a rough start regardless. I never have a problem killing 3-4 deer every year as many do the same on this site, so apparently there are enough for us and the coyotes.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Curmudgeon]

There is a large family near me that kills every coyote they see "for the deer". Ironically, one of them also complains about how much impact the deer are having on his crops. Expecting rational and critical thought when in comes to coyotes is expecting too much. I guess the same could be said for deer.

Coyote hunting make no difference in my neighborhood. There are always plenty of coyotes year after year, even with the hounds running all winter. I see tracks every time I go for a walk. Shooting coyotes incidentally while deer hunting does nothing at all.

With plenty of coyotes, we have way too many deer. It must be our local coyotes are completely incompetent. That is compared to vicious Delaware County monsters I've been reading about. Must be Otsego County has a different gene pool from Delaware.

[left field]

14 hours ago, Rattler said:

If you guys would be so kind as to tolerate a little doubt in research, I would appreciate it.  Research is a form of theory.  You do it and publish your findings.  You publish your findings so it can be peer reviewed.  Peer review can support or reject your research based on many factors, from methodology to conclusions.  

Couple of things.

"Peer reviewed" means that a scientific paper was reviewed by a panel of experts prior to publication, not after. Not sure if that happened here.

"Theory" as it relates to a science does not mean what it means to a layman. 

But that aside, did you pay the $10 and read the paper or are you just going off the article and the abstract?

[Dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

 Expecting rational and critical thought when  is expecting too much when it comes to  game management via internet forum.

 

Fixed it.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Dinsdale

[left field]

The internet is tricky business.

White and gold or blue and black?

Tom Hanks or Bill Murray?

Demon or saint?

 

[Rattler]

8 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Coyote hunting make no difference in my neighborhood. There are always plenty of coyotes year after year, even with the hounds running all winter. I see tracks every time I go for a walk. Shooting coyotes incidentally while deer hunting does nothing at all.

This is the best argument for supporting a coyote hunting contest you have ever made.  It obviously doesn't put them on any endangered list.

[left field]

Actually that's an argument for killing coyotes. Contests -- which may have been the original point of this thread but it's been so long ago who can remember -- are a different matter.

No one has said that you can't legally, ethically or sustainably kill coyotes. Have at it.

I have said that contests present bad optics.in 2020. Some agree, others disagree on whether it puts hunting in a positive or negative light. 

The science seems to be saying that while you think you're doing God's work and protecting deer, you're not.

 

[Curmudgeon]

8 hours ago, left field said:

The internet is tricky business.

White and gold or blue and black?

Tom Hanks or Bill Murray?

Demon or saint?

 

You sure they're coyotes? Looks more like jackals?  

[Curmudgeon]

11 hours ago, Dinsdale said:

Fixed it.

Dins,

It isn't just internet forums where clear thinking on coyotes is hard to find. It's common in real life too. I talk to hundreds of hunters in person.

Even the mainstream press has its bizarre commentary. Hancock is close enough to my hometown paper - The Daily Star, Oneonta - that they wrote an editorial. The readers comments are all over the map. However, the most nuts thing I've read there was a recent piece from their outdoor ccolumnist Rick Brockway. In his column on coyotes and the contest controversy, he cited 2 examples on why they are vicious killers. One of a deer being killed by coyotes after being disabled by a car impact. The second of a buck killed by coyotes a day after it was wounded and lost by one of his hunter friends. They found it the morning of the next day, still warm. In both of these anecdotes, coyotes were blamed for causing a cruel death.  Rational thought? Hardly.

[Rattler]

On the other hand, they will take on a healthy deer in deep snow, taking out it's hind legs to keep it from escaping, and disembowel it while it is still alive.  Most other predators kill the prey before eating it.

[left field]

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

You sure they're coyotes? Looks more like jackals?  

I wasn't sure as I see coyotes so infrequently.

[airedale]

1 minute ago, left field said:

1 hour ago, Curmudgeon said:

You sure they're coyotes? Looks more like jackals?  

I wasn't sure as I see coyotes so infrequently.

They are typical western Coyotes.

[left field]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

On the other hand, they will take on a healthy deer in deep snow, taking out it's hind legs to keep it from escaping, and disembowel it while it is still alive.  Most other predators kill the prey before eating it.

Are you just randomly making stuff up now?

[airedale]

1 minute ago, left field said:

Are you just randomly making stuff up now?

No he is not making it up, that is what pretty much happens., same deal with wolves.

Al

[Rattler]

7 minutes ago, left field said:

Are you just randomly making stuff up now?

I've seen it with my own eyes.  How do you think yotes take out deer?

[Rattler]

Take a look for yourself.  Not my video, but accurate portrayal of it on a big buck.

 

[airedale]

Rattler as the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!" trying to explain anything to these guys is a waste of time!!

Al

[Rattler]

Another video

 

[crappyice]

Rattler as the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!" trying to explain anything to these guys is a waste of time!!
Al

That’s an awfully broad brush ya got their Airedale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rattler]

 

[Steve D]

3 hours ago, left field said:

I have said that contests present bad optics.in 2020. Some agree, others disagree on whether it puts hunting in a positive or negative light. 

The science seems to be saying that while you think you're doing God's work and protecting deer, you're not.

Contests are not about killing coyotes. Contests are about winning the "big" prize whether is a big cash payout,  new gun, fancy thermal or night vision. The number of coyotes taken in a contest will do nothing to reduce the "overall" population. There are not enough contests to have a impact on the "overall" population.

42 minutes ago, left field said:

Are you just randomly making stuff up now?

It does happen while few actually witness it. We do need to kill coyotes or live with the consequences of their kills.

 

 

[Rattler]

 

[Rattler]

Double post

Edited February 8, 2020 by Rattler

[Steve D]

How Much Venison Are Coyotes Eating?

https://www.qdma.com/how-much-venison-are-coyotes-eating/