nyslowhand Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 ^^^^ If you're saying it has been a lobbying war between NYBHs and NYCC, you're correct. Another dirty little secret about this issue is it has mainly become a war between legislators from upstate and the greater NYC area, with the later having the most votes &/or influence. If it's such a "hot potato" issue, why the legislators don't simply grant the DEC the power to make Xbow regulations, seasons, definitions, etc...!??! Too logical...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 12 hours ago, nyslowhand said: ^^^^ If you're saying it has been a lobbying war between NYBHs and NYCC, you're correct. Another dirty little secret about this issue is it has mainly become a war between legislators from upstate and the greater NYC area, with the later having the most votes &/or influence. If it's such a "hot potato" issue, why the legislators don't simply grant the DEC the power to make Xbow regulations, seasons, definitions, etc...!??! Too logical...? That is up for constitutional amendment, ( another post on site) would remove all politics from game and fish management Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDose Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 12 hours ago, nyslowhand said: ^^^^ If you're saying it has been a lobbying war between NYBHs and NYCC, you're correct. Another dirty little secret about this issue is it has mainly become a war between legislators from upstate and the greater NYC area, with the later having the most votes &/or influence. If it's such a "hot potato" issue, why the legislators don't simply grant the DEC the power to make Xbow regulations, seasons, definitions, etc...!??! Too logical...? Give DEC the power = logical. Legislators giving up power to DEC = illogical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 12 hours ago, nyslowhand said: ^^^^ If you're saying it has been a lobbying war between NYBHs and NYCC, you're correct. Another dirty little secret about this issue is it has mainly become a war between legislators from upstate and the greater NYC area, with the later having the most votes &/or influence. If it's such a "hot potato" issue, why the legislators don't simply grant the DEC the power to make Xbow regulations, seasons, definitions, etc...!??! Too logical...? The word "logical" and NYS politics, go together like oil and water. Or like having a crossbow lumped in with a muzzleloader. Just doesn't seem logical to me? No matter what your opinion is about crossbow. It should have included the bow course, for using one from the start. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyslowhand Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Agreed! The current Xbow regulations was s/u FUBAR from the beginning. What happens when a bunch of legislators who have no clue listen to a bow hunters organization on how to implement Xbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_C Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I took my archery course on line last summer for this exact reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Will_C said: I took my archery course on line last summer for this exact reason. Very smart move. Anyone using a crossbow ,or hoping to in all of archery should do so,it will be required when it happens ,get it now and get ahead. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Mountain Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 10:35 AM, blackbeltbill said: It is possible alot of Hunters who hunt different Game but have not much interest In deer hunting will take to the Crossbow if it is included in the early Archery Opening Day of October 1st on my area. I know, I will. I will then have an interest in Deer hunting. All my Turkey Hunting Woodsmanship on Public will then be brought to bear. The only Negative that,I can see is more competition on Public with established Archers who won't be happy that perhaps more new Deer Hunters will also be Scouting out that Big Public Buck they have their eye on... This is completely incorrect again. Shows how out of touch you are. Archers don’t care about competition. If a bunch of guys wanted to archery hunt so be it. If someone needed help lots would and will even offer it. They’d gladly help the new hunter drag even if it was a “big public buck”. You can’t put your personal thoughts on others. A crossbow isn’t nor will it ever be archery. Archery gear has no stock, is drawn under own power when we’re about to shoot and takes skill to perfect. A crossgun can be shot well in seconds. I’ve got years of actual, factual experience with that unlike the above guess as to why folks are against it. If someone was disabled I don’t have a problem with it. If not and if you’re willing to learn archery welcome. If you want to gun hunt, stay there. Not so difficult to understand. How come the crossgun guys don’t push to be out there rifle season? Lots of archers would certainly like that. God forbid the crossgun guys challenge themselves. Big difference in mindset. Archers have always tried to do things the hard way. That’s the core reason they do what they do. Bet you didn’t know that. Sure sounds like you didn’t. Crossgun guys aren’t concerned with that either. They want things easy. I’ve seen you post exactly that. You wonder why the opposition? Now add crossguns offering a second shot, range finding scopes, 100 yard shots. Sounds just like archery to me. Consider those points, you may understand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Lucky Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said: This is completely incorrect again. Shows how out of touch you are. Archers don’t care about competition. If a bunch of guys wanted to archery hunt so be it. If someone needed help lots would and will even offer it. They’d gladly help the new hunter drag even if it was a “big public buck”. You can’t put your personal thoughts on others. A crossbow isn’t nor will it ever be archery. Archery gear has no stock, is drawn under own power when we’re about to shoot and takes skill to perfect. A crossgun can be shot well in seconds. I’ve got years of actual, factual experience with that unlike the above guess as to why folks are against it. If someone was disabled I don’t have a problem with it. If not and if you’re willing to learn archery welcome. If you want to gun hunt, stay there. Not so difficult to understand. How come the crossgun guys don’t push to be out there rifle season? Lots of archers would certainly like that. God forbid the crossgun guys challenge themselves. Big difference in mindset. Archers have always tried to do things the hard way. That’s the core reason they do what they do. Bet you didn’t know that. Sure sounds like you didn’t. Crossgun guys aren’t concerned with that either. They want things easy. I’ve seen you post exactly that. You wonder why the opposition? Now add crossguns offering a second shot, range finding scopes, 100 yard shots. Sounds just like archery to me. Consider those points, you may understand I disagree with your assumptions. Compound bow hunting maybe a way for you to challenge yourself in the woods, and it may take you months of practice to get it correct, but not all. It takes skill to perfect any weapon of choice. I have a friend of mine who can outshoot me all day long with a compound, but can not shoot a gun if his life depended on it and that's ok. It is not easier to get a second shot off with a crossbow than a compound. Nobody is lobbying to allow crossbow in gun because it is already allowed. Now for conspiracy theories allowing crossbows could limit gun usage. Antigun activists could use that to their advantage. I hunted with recurve/compound, a compound, muzzleloader, shotgun, and rifle. Everyone and season brings its own set of challenges. How you hunt, and where you hunt is different for us all. I would like to see crossbow added to archery because an archery course should be necessary, and we need to keep people interested in hunting. Using a crossbow instead of a compound does not make someone less of a hunter, or unwilling to put in the time. That attitude creates division in the hunting community and weakens our rights moving foward. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Mountain Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 hours ago, Just Lucky said: I disagree with your assumptions. Compound bow hunting maybe a way for you to challenge yourself in the woods, and it may take you months of practice to get it correct, but not all. It takes skill to perfect any weapon of choice. I have a friend of mine who can outshoot me all day long with a compound, but can not shoot a gun if his life depended on it and that's ok. It is not easier to get a second shot off with a crossbow than a compound. Nobody is lobbying to allow crossbow in gun because it is already allowed. Now for conspiracy theories allowing crossbows could limit gun usage. Antigun activists could use that to their advantage. I hunted with recurve/compound, a compound, muzzleloader, shotgun, and rifle. Everyone and season brings its own set of challenges. How you hunt, and where you hunt is different for us all. I would like to see crossbow added to archery because an archery course should be necessary, and we need to keep people interested in hunting. Using a crossbow instead of a compound does not make someone less of a hunter, or unwilling to put in the time. That attitude creates division in the hunting community and weakens our rights moving foward. For starters I don’t hunt with wheels. 2, crossgun companies now offer a second shot crossgun. Tell me exactly how I could be quicker even with a styk? If your friend can’t shoot a gun I’m amazed. Never knew anyone totally proficient with a bow that was completely unable to use a gun efficiently. I’m sorry but this just ain’t what you’re saying. Something is missing from your post. The last paragraph is sort of the everyone included mentality of today. Again sorry crossgun a can be included with gun season. Why not try that if you want to use it??? That was not addressed in your post??? I’ll wait 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Mountain Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 21 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said: I have to admit- you are coming after me pretty good. 3rd Weekend now. Jan 3rd in Robs Thread- Calling Them In From Long Range on page 1. Jan 16th+ 17th of my Thread- New Turkey Shotgun on page 2. And now on this Crossbow Thread. Your first 2 sentences above make clear that you are coming after me in a personal way for the 3rd weekend. Let's see, you have called me insecure a few times. Incorrect, - out of Touch, an expert, + more. I listed the above to clue in regular members of what is going on in your Long quotes regarding posts,I wrote. It will probably continue on especially on the weekends. No problem- good entertainment for the members. As far as Turkey Hunting Goes- no expert here as,I already wrote. However everything, I have done and wrote about is backed up with Pictures. Many with my Face in the pictures. But my guess is that you will never show your Face next to all your Toms this coming Spring... There’s no coming after you. If you say something erroneously can someone not correct that? Maybe use correct information. That would help. I will say I understand your intent is to help and I do respect that. Too many times though it’s steering someone wrong information wise. If I’m incorrect or say something incorrect I welcome your comments. You mention what archers think yet aren’t one and don’t actually know. You couldn’t have spoken to any or many hard core guys either. All archers are welcome. All potential new archers have my offer of help and that’s not said in passing. I do it and will continue to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolc123 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Just now, Foggy Mountain said: There’s no coming after you. If you say something erroneously can someone not correct that? Maybe use correct information. That would help. I will say I understand your intent is to help and I do respect that. Too many times though it’s steering someone wrong information wise. If I’m incorrect or say something incorrect I welcome your comments. You mention what archers think yet aren’t one and don’t actually know. You couldn’t have spoken to any or many hard core guys either. All archers are welcome. All potential new archers have my offer of help and that’s not said in passing. I do it and will continue to do it. Ate you a NYB member ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said: This is completely incorrect again. Shows how out of touch you are. Archers don’t care about competition. If a bunch of guys wanted to archery hunt so be it. If someone needed help lots would and will even offer it. They’d gladly help the new hunter drag even if it was a “big public buck”. You can’t put your personal thoughts on others. A crossbow isn’t nor will it ever be archery. Archery gear has no stock, is drawn under own power when we’re about to shoot and takes skill to perfect. A crossgun can be shot well in seconds. I’ve got years of actual, factual experience with that unlike the above guess as to why folks are against it. If someone was disabled I don’t have a problem with it. If not and if you’re willing to learn archery welcome. If you want to gun hunt, stay there. Not so difficult to understand. How come the crossgun guys don’t push to be out there rifle season? Lots of archers would certainly like that. God forbid the crossgun guys challenge themselves. Big difference in mindset. Archers have always tried to do things the hard way. That’s the core reason they do what they do. Bet you didn’t know that. Sure sounds like you didn’t. Crossgun guys aren’t concerned with that either. They want things easy. I’ve seen you post exactly that. You wonder why the opposition? Now add crossguns offering a second shot, range finding scopes, 100 yard shots. Sounds just like archery to me. Consider those points, you may understand But yet archers pushed for compound(easier) mechanical releases( just like a trigger) lighted pins ( idk sunset is legal shooting hours why do you need lighted pins) extended season, extra tag all pushed for and gotten by "archers"oh and electronic calls allowed, let alone treestands.. all designed to make archery easier yet you say they want harder ,perhaps you hunt with himmade stick bow and stone heads( flintknapping is a true skill) ...... the only ones that have a complaint are traditional/primative archers... if you use any of the above methods or things you already sold out... Lets just pass this making it archery equipment and requre the archery course and be done. 99% of people i know that have a x-bow all have or still shoot compound bow. The hypocrisy of the archery is hard / difficult complaint is astounding. Edited January 24, 2021 by G-Man 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Lucky Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 35 minutes ago, Foggy Mountain said: For starters I don’t hunt with wheels. 2, crossgun companies now offer a second shot crossgun. Tell me exactly how I could be quicker even with a styk? If your friend can’t shoot a gun I’m amazed. Never knew anyone totally proficient with a bow that was completely unable to use a gun efficiently. I’m sorry but this just ain’t what you’re saying. Something is missing from your post. The last paragraph is sort of the everyone included mentality of today. Again sorry crossgun a can be included with gun season. Why not try that if you want to use it??? That was not addressed in your post??? I’ll wait Reread my statement, crossbows are legal in gun season. Compound bows do not take alot of practice to be effective. A second shot from compound does not take very long to do. Try it, you will see. Some people do not do well with recoil, get out around people more and you will understand. And again from a person who bow hunts, being a bow hunter does not make you a better hunter. It only gives another opportunity with different advantages and disadvantages. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Dan Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) On 1/22/2021 at 11:18 AM, DoubleDose said: IMO, this is the MAIN (and possibly only) reason this has not passed in the past. Only Archers are opposed to it, and those that hunt private land shouldn't be affected. It’s possible. Based on my observations in PA, I think allowing crossbows had a bigger impact in suburban areas. The big woods are hard to hunt with a rifle, never mind a crossbow. I saw people near me (urban-ish) who didn’t have the time or space to practice with a bow take up crossbow. The people who were passionate about archery seem to have frequently stuck with a standard bow. I am in between and I use both/either depending on how I am feeling at the moment. Based on my observations and unscientific conclusions, I think a good number of rifle hunters have taken up crossbow hunting in PA. I think a lot of them fill their freezers close to home. At least that is one of my theories on why I see a lot fewer hunters on the big public tracts in the mountains here. I haven’t compared harvest stats so I could be way off. All I know is that crossbows didn’t increase hunting pressure at all where I hunt in the mountains in archery season and our number of rifle hunters seems way lower. Edited January 24, 2021 by Fat Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampy Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 8 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said: This is completely incorrect again. Shows how out of touch you are. Archers don’t care about competition. If a bunch of guys wanted to archery hunt so be it. If someone needed help lots would and will even offer it. They’d gladly help the new hunter drag even if it was a “big public buck”. You can’t put your personal thoughts on others. A crossbow isn’t nor will it ever be archery. Archery gear has no stock, is drawn under own power when we’re about to shoot and takes skill to perfect. A crossgun can be shot well in seconds. I’ve got years of actual, factual experience with that unlike the above guess as to why folks are against it. If someone was disabled I don’t have a problem with it. If not and if you’re willing to learn archery welcome. If you want to gun hunt, stay there. Not so difficult to understand. How come the crossgun guys don’t push to be out there rifle season? Lots of archers would certainly like that. God forbid the crossgun guys challenge themselves. Big difference in mindset. Archers have always tried to do things the hard way. That’s the core reason they do what they do. Bet you didn’t know that. Sure sounds like you didn’t. Crossgun guys aren’t concerned with that either. They want things easy. I’ve seen you post exactly that. You wonder why the opposition? Now add crossguns offering a second shot, range finding scopes, 100 yard shots. Sounds just like archery to me. Consider those points, you may understand I've been a bowhunter since the late 70s. The recurve I used to kill my first bow deer, looks nothing like the compound I shoot today. Yet in all these years, I have upgraded my equipment step by step, because it was easier, and better! Carbon arrows with Blazer fletching. Drop away rest. Fast cams. Peep sight, with fiber optic lighted pins. Cable slide. Centered riser with a slim grip. Bows sure have come a long way since I started! Why? I really don't give two spits what legal equipment other hunters use!!! It doesn't effect me in the least. Want to shoot a primitive bow? Nice! Want to shoot the newest technology compound? Nice! Want to use a "crossgun"? Nice! More power to ya! I will NEVER impose what "I do" on another hunter! I hope I never become that closed minded. Do your thing, let others do theirs. And just go hunt! Some good points in this proposed legislation. Will make some things "easier" and "better". I don't have a problem with that. Been doing it since the 70s!! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDose Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Foggy Mountain said: For starters I don’t hunt with wheels. 2, crossgun companies now offer a second shot crossgun. Tell me exactly how I could be quicker even with a styk? If your friend can’t shoot a gun I’m amazed. Never knew anyone totally proficient with a bow that was completely unable to use a gun efficiently. I’m sorry but this just ain’t what you’re saying. Something is missing from your post. The last paragraph is sort of the everyone included mentality of today. Again sorry crossgun a can be included with gun season. Why not try that if you want to use it??? That was not addressed in your post??? I’ll wait Your bias comes through with the use of the word "crossgun" twice. Definition of a crossbow: A crossbow is a ranged weapon using an elastic launching device similar to a bow; it consists of a bow-like assembly called a prod, mounted horizontally on a main frame called a tiller, which is hand-held in a similar fashion to the stock of a long gun. Crossbows shoot arrow-like projectiles called bolts or quarrels. Having 1 feature in common with a gun versus 3 features in common with a bow. Definition of a gun: A gun is a ranged weapon designed to use a shooting tube to launch typically solid projectiles, but can also project pressurized liquid, gas or even charged particles. Solid projectiles may be free-flying or tethered. A large-caliber gun is also referred to as a cannon Clearly, and more importantly, it does not function like a gun. Edited January 24, 2021 by DoubleDose typo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Need to get rid of the stupid max draw weight and minimum width regs. then and only then will I support this#ThankYouForLessOverzealousModding #WeDemandUnlimitedLikes#WeDemandADislikeButton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDose Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, The Jerkman said: Need to get rid of the stupid max draw weight and minimum width regs. then and only then will I support this #ThankYouForLessOverzealousModding #WeDemandUnlimitedLikes #WeDemandADislikeButton One should have nothing to do with the other. Those NY restrictions are equivalent, and same thought process, to the ridiculous restrictions on the ARs in NY. Get rid of Andy and we can get rid of both (xbow & AR) ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions. We as hunters should be behind this first and then second work to get the restrictions removed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 hours ago, The Jerkman said: Need to get rid of the stupid max draw weight and minimum width regs. then and only then will I support this #ThankYouForLessOverzealousModding #WeDemandUnlimitedLikes #WeDemandADislikeButton They have minimum caliber for rifle for deer so why not on a crossbow or a bow.( drawweight) i dont have problem with it , shotgun only areas for years.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDose Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, G-Man said: They have minimum caliber for rifle for deer so why not on a crossbow or a bow.( drawweight) i dont have problem with it , shotgun only areas for years.. No issue with minimum caliber or minimum draw weight (xbow or bow). The issue is a maximum draw weight on an xbow. Makes no sense to have a maximum when no other implement has that. The other issue is the minimum width restriction. No other implement has a similar physical restriction (overall length, axle to axle, etc). Edited January 25, 2021 by DoubleDose clarification 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, DoubleDose said: No issue with minimum caliber or minimum draw weight (xbow or bow). The issue is maximum on an xbow. Makes no sense to have a maximum when no other implement has that. The other issue is the minimum width restriction. No other implement has a similar physical restriction. You cant use a cannon to hunt deer so there is a maximum. Punt guns are illegal for waterfoul now.. so i have no issue with maximum 400 fps is quite capable within lb limits. Making archery course mandatory and learning that though a x bow can shoot 100 yards off a rest accuratly the game will most likely move before arrow gets there so the lbs limit makes sense. No reason to temp long shots cause it has more fps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDose Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, G-Man said: You cant use a cannon to hunt deer so there is a maximum. Punt guns are illegal for waterfoul now.. so i have no issue with maximum 400 fps is quite capable within lb limits. Making archery course mandatory and learning that though a x bow can shoot 100 yards off a rest accuratly the game will most likely move before arrow gets there so the lbs limit makes sense. No reason to temp long shots cause it has more fps. You're missing my point. The regs for firearms (which specifies legal implements and does not include cannons or punt guns) have a minimum caliber but no maximum. It doesn't say maximum .300 Win Mag or some other. You can legally use a .50 BMG. You can be okay with these restrictions, that is your right. I am looking for the logic or justification; which there does not seem to be any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, DoubleDose said: You're missing my point. The regs for firearms (which specifies legal implements and does not include cannons or punt guns) have a minimum caliber but no maximum. It doesn't say maximum .300 Win Mag or some other. You can legally use a .50 BMG. You can be okay with these restrictions, that is your right. I am looking for the logic or justification; which there does not seem to be any. The logic is to keep.performance on par with a 70 lb pull compound. As for limbwidth that can change as new designs allow for narrower limbs ( it was initially.put in place to qell fears of shooting it out of vehicles ) as i said i have no issue with lb limit , 400fps is fast enough for game under 50 yards same as a top. End compound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 One should have nothing to do with the other. Those NY restrictions are equivalent, and same thought process, to the ridiculous restrictions on the ARs in NY. Get rid of Andy and we can get rid of both (xbow & AR) ridiculous and unnecessary restrictions. We as hunters should be behind this first and then second work to get the restrictions removed. Getting rid of AC all together would be fantastic!#ThankYouForLessOverzealousModding #WeDemandUnlimitedLikes#WeDemandADislikeButton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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