Biden Seeks Assault Weapons Ban and Background Checks

[left field]

1 hour ago, SportsmanNH said:

There is so much more to be said about tons of other events , but out of respect for you Im done with this thread. Moving over to the better parts of life like the hunting and fishing threads. And the FOOD ! And the  drooling " Whats For Dinner " threads ! LOL   See you over in the saner part of the forum.

I was just pointing out Grouse's nonsense. I really don't post here anymore as it's just one guy's echo chamber. I'll go back to fishing and other random stuff. 

I had "breakfast for dinner" - three farm eggs scrambled with a smoked chicken sausage in a wrap. 

[GreeneHunter]

3 minutes ago, left field said:

I had "breakfast for dinner" - three farm eggs scrambled with a smoked chicken sausage in a wrap. 

Hmmmm Hmmmm Good Hmmmm Hmmmm Good ! (campbells soup commercial , remember ?)  LOL

[Uncle Nicky]

[left field]

Just old enough to remember.

(that was a response to GH not UN.)

Edited March 24, 2021 by left field

[phantom]

The only thing that stops  a guy with a gun is anther guy with a gun , people make me laugh with all this talk about ARs  or what ever semi automatic they use ,  a guy with a single shot can kill  groups of people just as easily if the people are not armed not going to make much difference. 

Who are they joking  you think people have time to do anything before a guy reloads any firearm that crap only happens in the movies .  The criminals will adapt to any gun regulation they put in place . 

[GreeneHunter]

34 minutes ago, phantom said:

The only thing that stops  a guy with a gun is anther guy with a gun , people make me laugh with all this talk about ARs  or what ever semi automatic they use ,  a guy with a single shot can kill  groups of people just as easily if the people are not armed not going to make much difference. 

Who are they joking  you think people have time to do anything before a guy reloads any firearm that crap only happens in the movies .  The criminals will adapt to any gun regulation they put in place . 

Unfortunately Very True !

[Grouse]

The FBI has recorded no fewer than 19 times in a five-year span (and that estimate may be low) — from 2014 to 2018 — when active shooters were stopped or repelled by citizens. Seven times armed citizens stopped the shooting entirely. Twice an armed citizen engaged the shooter and caused him to flee the scene. Citizens stop active shooters less often than the police do, but it’s crystal clear that armed citizens have saved lives. They’ve stopped massacres that would have further plunged American families and American communities into deep grief. They’ve stopped massacres that would have further polarized American politics.

Panicked customers fled, and the police sped toward the store, but by the time they arrived, the crisis had passed. A private citizen described as a “former firefighter” had pulled his firearm and was holding the man at gunpoint. That thing that supposedly never happens just happened again. A good guy with a gun averted a potential crisis.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/in-missouri-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-stepped-up-so-can-you/

 

Here are the cold, hard facts liberals in the media don’t want you to know about gun ownership: A handful of high-profile tragedies aside, guns are, on balance, used far more for self-defense and other positive uses than for violent crime. A report from the Institute of Medicine found that:

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

The trend here is clear. Defensive gun use is hard to measure, but if it’s anywhere in the range that most surveys suggest, it far exceeds actual instances of violent gun crimes. This reminds us that while mass shootings are certainly tragic, guns are a net positive for society.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/good-guy-with-a-gun-strikes-again-to-protect-the-public

 

Numerous outlets reported this attack, but unsurprisingly, many of those focused on the attack, the firearms and the victims, but never—or only passingly—mentioned how a good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun. A CNN online report, for example, had 30-plus, highly detailed paragraphs about the attack, the killer and the firearms, but in only one buried sentence gave some scant details on the action by Willeford that stopped the attack. This is typical mainstream-media reporting of guns used by citizens to save lives.

https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/articles/2019/10/27/the-truth-about-good-guys-with-guns

 

A Good Guy (Or Gal) With A Gun – Mass Shootings Stopped By Civilians. This page will track mass shootings stopped by citizens with firearms other, generally, than the police.

http://www.shotinthedark.info/wp/?page_id=55536

Edited March 25, 2021 by Grouse

[Grouse]

19 hours ago, DirtTime said:

Oh look! It's Alex Jones! You have any proof to back up any of this? PROOF! Not you're misinformed opinions.

How's that crow taste?

[phantom]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

How's that crow taste?

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a), in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008 (BJS, 2010).

 

yea really the only thing that makes a cop more effective then a citizen in stopping a active shooting is his gear the gun no gun and he is as helpless as everyone else there . obviously if you have people there already with guns the shooter can be stopped faster not rocket science . 

if guns didn't work why do cops have them?  

[Robhuntandfish]

10 hours ago, phantom said:

The only thing that stops  a guy with a gun is anther guy with a gun , people make me laugh with all this talk about ARs  or what ever semi automatic they use ,  a guy with a single shot can kill  groups of people just as easily if the people are not armed not going to make much difference. 

Who are they joking  you think people have time to do anything before a guy reloads any firearm that crap only happens in the movies .  The criminals will adapt to any gun regulation they put in place . 

this is only partially true.  If a single shot was as effective as an M16 then why does the military not carry H&R's?  lol

As much as we want to make this arguement it just isnt true.  If you were going to do something bad and an AR with extra magazines or a single shot and 4 pockets full of loose shells are your choices, your not chosing the single shot.  cmon.  That being said...

I am sure Al capone would have given up a life of crime if only they had made machine guns illegal back in that day.  Lol.  Criminals will buy any gun they can get.  

We all think its a slippery slope if assault rifles are taken away. Whether anyone can face it or not they are designed to be military weapons and are not needed for hunting of any sort, nor self defense in  a reasonable day.  Yes god forbid i said it. Just most wont admit it.  For those that own an AR - other than some target plinking and the cool factor they arent anything else.  Now i have to state i am for 2A of course and i mostly side with fighting gun regulation. Hell i would love to get a .410 AR ive been looking at, I'd love to see pistol carry be consistant and legal with all the right checks and legalities gone thru.  But i am also able to see the arguements made and the points that are made. Do i think AR's should be eliminated - Im not there yet.  Do i feel all that threatened if they do.  Not really.  There is fear mongering on the right just as there is on the left.  If i thought it would solve everything i would just hunt with my bow and actually be happy with that. And yes i know guns are to defend against an overpowerful govt etc.  I get that. Put the fear mongering aside we arent having a war against our govt or amongst ourselves.  At least im not.  

[ncountry]

38 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

this is only partially true.  If a single shot was as effective as an M16 then why does the military not carry H&R's?  lol

As much as we want to make this arguement it just isnt true.  If you were going to do something bad and an AR with extra magazines or a single shot and 4 pockets full of loose shells are your choices, your not chosing the single shot.  cmon.  That being said...

I am sure Al capone would have given up a life of crime if only they had made machine guns illegal back in that day.  Lol.  Criminals will buy any gun they can get.  

We all think its a slippery slope if assault rifles are taken away. Whether anyone can face it or not they are designed to be military weapons and are not needed for hunting of any sort, nor self defense in  a reasonable day.  Yes god forbid i said it. Just most wont admit it.  For those that own an AR - other than some target plinking and the cool factor they arent anything else.  Now i have to state i am for 2A of course and i mostly side with fighting gun regulation. Hell i would love to get a .410 AR ive been looking at, I'd love to see pistol carry be consistant and legal with all the right checks and legalities gone thru.  But i am also able to see the arguements made and the points that are made. Do i think AR's should be eliminated - Im not there yet.  Do i feel all that threatened if they do.  Not really.  There is fear mongering on the right just as there is on the left.  If i thought it would solve everything i would just hunt with my bow and actually be happy with that. And yes i know guns are to defend against an overpowerful govt etc.  I get that. Put the fear mongering aside we arent having a war against our govt or amongst ourselves.  At least im not.  

I would have to disagree.  For the methods these sick individuals use , a regular old shotgun with standard turkey loads would be more effective. Advantages of an AR show up more when you are under fire and this rarely happens in these shooter situations .When it does it usually ends pretty quickly.

Imo they use ARs because of how they are portrayed in the media not because of any real advantage.

[Robhuntandfish]

17 minutes ago, ncountry said:

I would have to disagree.  For the methods these sick individuals use , a regular old shotgun with standard turkey loads would be more effective. Advantages of an AR show up more when you are under fire and this rarely happens in these shooter situations .When it does it usually ends pretty quickly.

Imo they use ARs because of how they are portrayed in the media not because of any real advantage.

A single shot turkey gun? Over a 30 round semi?   Ok.... Yes we def disagree. 

[ncountry]

7 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

A single shot turkey gun? Over a 30 round semi?   Ok.... Yes we def disagree. 

.lol. No not a single shot.  Pump or semi

[Robhuntandfish]

11 minutes ago, ncountry said:

.lol. No not a single shot.  Pump or semi

 Right but his arguement was for a single shot. So we actually agree.  lol. 

[Uncle Nicky]

1 hour ago, Robhuntandfish said:

this is only partially true.  If a single shot was as effective as an M16 then why does the military not carry H&R's?  lol

As much as we want to make this arguement it just isnt true.  If you were going to do something bad and an AR with extra magazines or a single shot and 4 pockets full of loose shells are your choices, your not chosing the single shot.  cmon.  That being said...

I am sure Al capone would have given up a life of crime if only they had made machine guns illegal back in that day.  Lol.  Criminals will buy any gun they can get.  

We all think its a slippery slope if assault rifles are taken away. Whether anyone can face it or not they are designed to be military weapons and are not needed for hunting of any sort, nor self defense in  a reasonable day.  Yes god forbid i said it. Just most wont admit it.  For those that own an AR - other than some target plinking and the cool factor they arent anything else.  Now i have to state i am for 2A of course and i mostly side with fighting gun regulation. Hell i would love to get a .410 AR ive been looking at, I'd love to see pistol carry be consistant and legal with all the right checks and legalities gone thru.  But i am also able to see the arguements made and the points that are made. Do i think AR's should be eliminated - Im not there yet.  Do i feel all that threatened if they do.  Not really.  There is fear mongering on the right just as there is on the left.  If i thought it would solve everything i would just hunt with my bow and actually be happy with that. And yes i know guns are to defend against an overpowerful govt etc.  I get that. Put the fear mongering aside we arent having a war against our govt or amongst ourselves.  At least im not.  

With all due respect, I don't think you see the big picture.

Semi-auto rifles have been available to hunt with for 100 years. No, they did they not look like an AR or AK originally and did not have a 30-round magazine, but the principle was still there. As fast as you can pull the trigger, the gun would fire. An AK or AR may not be the best rifle to hunt with in a more crowded state like NY, but they really do shine in a more open area (Texas, western states) where multiple shots at fast moving game or varmints are the norm. Put a scope on one & upgrade to a higher caliber, and you have a very accurate deer rifle. I'd prefer my AK over a handgun or shotgun in a home-defense situation any day of the week. Points fast, doesn't jam, and hits what I'm aiming at.

Giving an inch in gun control rarely works out well. The second amendment was written so that the average citizen has a fighting chance to oppose an oppressive regime, which is the direction we are dangerously heading towards now. It's not really about home defense or hunting. The evil people taking over our country do not want us to fight back against them, they want this all to be very simple & seamless for them.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Uncle Nicky

[Robhuntandfish]

15 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

With all due respect, I don't think you see the big picture.

Semi-auto rifles have been available to hunt with for 100 years. No, they did they not look like an AR or AK originally and did not have a 30-round clip, but the principle was still there. As fast as you can pull the trigger, the gun would fire. An AK or AR may not be the best rifle to hunt with in a more crowded state like NY, but they really do shine in a more open area (Texas, western states) where multiple shots at fast moving game or varmints are the norm. 

 I actually am looking at the big picture of how people - other than a few of us- see things.  I also did not say all Semi autos.  Got to... just got to.... have a semi for ducks ..... esp with my ability. But your limited to 3 shots in the chamber anyway.   But dont i see a hunting need for an AR. A semi auto rifle with a 3/4 shot sure.  Dont need the new AR military style with a banana clip to hunt anything.  Im just saying I can see the other side of things.  If your not a gun onwer and have no need for them, then understanding why someone needs a personal M16 can be questioned.  Hell we would prob all like to have a minigun to play with but Im glad everyone doesnt.   But as you say 100 years ago I dont know they invisioned what we have today that was developed during 2 world wars. 

And i get where everyone is coming from in being afraid of a slippery slope of what gets banned and what doesnt.  But My hunting rifle and some of these AR's being used and what they are needed for a long way apart.  If the line comes closer im not going to fear monger over it. And say 2A is gone 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Robhuntandfish

[airedale]

Whether you know it or not Rob our activities represented well on this forum are all interconnected in some way and every single one is under attack by some anti group. As soon as one thing gets picked off you can be assured that they will move on to pick off something else. When it comes to the outdoor sports and the excuse that because it does not affect me I am letting it slide is about as lame as it gets.

As Ben Franklin put so well "hang together or hang separately" is something I have followed my whole life. I will fight hard for all even if I do not participate in all, be it for trapping, hunting fishing, shooting, ammo etc. etc. etc.

Al

Edited March 25, 2021 by airedale

[Uncle Nicky]

2 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

 I actually am looking at the big picture of how people - other than a few of us- see things.  I also did not say all Semi autos.  Got to... just got to.... have a semi for ducks ..... esp with my ability. But your limited to 3 shots in the chamber anyway.   But dont i see a hunting need for an AR. A semi auto rifle with a 3/4 shot sure.  Dont need the new AR military style with a banana clip to hunt anything.  Im just saying I can see the other side of things.  If your not a gun onwer and have no need for them, then understanding why someone needs a personal M16 can be questioned.  Hell we would prob all like to have a minigun to play with but Im glad everyone doesnt.   

And i get where everyone is coming from in being afraid of a slippery slope of what gets banned and what doesnt.  But My hunting rifle and some of these AR's being used and what they are needed for a long way apart.  If the line comes closer im not going to fear monger over it. And say 2A is gone 

The problem becomes, once the laws are changed, they are next to impossible to reverse. Ask the people in Europe, or even worse, ask the people in third world countries what they can do to change the government. The answer is, nothing. The voting system is as bad or worse than what we are living with now.

There is a reason why people oppressed people flee to this country, the answer is freedom. Take away the ability to resist and become impotent to change things, and we become just another weak population controlled by a corrupt handful who call themselves government. I don't know how to make this any clearer.

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, airedale said:

Whether you know it or not Rob our activities represented well on this forum are all interconnected in some way and every single one is under attack by some anti group. As soon as one thing gets picked off you can be assured that they will move on to pick off something else. When it comes to the outdoor sports and the excuse that because it does not affect me I am letting it slide is about as lame as it gets.

As Ben Franklin put so well "hang together or hang separately" is something I have followed my whole life. I will fight hard for al even if I do not participate, be it for trapping, hunting fishing, shooting, ammo etc. etc. etc.

Al

As i stated above I am all for 2A and i am not for banning AR's.  But i can understand how people look at those and wonder WTH.  I think in the broader sense almost every acitivity has an anti group to it these days.  I never said I was letting it slide, but i also said I understand why a grandmother in Detroit wonders how there can be so much gun violence and doenst care if i hunt or not.  We are never going back to the wild west.  And no longer is it just a 6 shooter that people can carry. There does have to be a line.  Although 2A was written at the time of muskets I also dont think it should be legal to own your own Howitzer.  There has to be an will be a line whether you or anyone else likes it lets face it.  But to fear monger and say they are taking away 2A is a jump i am not willing to go to yet. 

[Steuben Jerry]

AR's are just another step in the direction of banning firearms. The anti-gun crowd is already targeting our deer rifles as high powered sniper rifles. There's plenty of rhetoric about that out there.

Concealed carry is yet another step - nobody "needs" to be walking around with a loaded gun in public.

Semi-auto handguns are also a target as they have been used in mass shootings about as much as AR's.

So first they come for AR's,

Then deer rifles,

Then concealed carry,

Then semi-auto pistols.

We'll get down to that single shot shotgun in no time at all.

It is a slippery slope indeed.

[Robhuntandfish]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

The problem becomes, once the laws are changed, they are next to impossible to reverse. Ask the people in Europe, or even worse, ask the people in third world countries what they can do to change the government. The answer is, nothing. The voting system is as bad or worse than what we are living with now.

There is a reason why people oppressed people flee to this country, the answer is freedom. Take away the ability to resist and become impotent to change things, and we become just another weak population controlled by a corrupt handful who call themselves government. I don't know how to make this any clearer.

i dont disagree with a single thing you said here, except maybe why people are fleeing to this country.  If youve been wathcing the border crisis people coming here are stating wealth and jobs not freedom to own a firearm.  Yes i get that they are coexistant.  

I again am for 2A but it seems so many that are, are also blind to reasoning on the other side.  I can see why an AR is questioned by so many.  How can you not see that...

[Steuben Jerry]

And for the reloading and muzzleloading crowd, Extremist politicians have also labeled black and smokeless powder as "explosives" and no citizens should be able to own explosives.

[Uncle Nicky]

8 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i dont disagree with a single thing you said here, except maybe why people are fleeing to this country.  If youve been wathcing the border crisis people coming here are stating wealth and jobs not freedom to own a firearm.  Yes i get that they are coexistant.  

I again am for 2A but it seems so many that are, are also blind to reasoning on the other side.  I can see why an AR is questioned by so many.  How can you not see that...

No, I DO see that (that many who don't own guns want them abolished forever). The media has programmed these folks, I hope that some will wake up & understand history and what can & has happened before, before it is too late. We should do our part whenever possible to try & educate them, however frustrating that may be.

The current crop of people slowly working their way illegally into our country from the south are thieves, plain & simple. I doubt most want to immigrate here & be absorbed into our culture & laws, most will head back to where they came from once they've pushed legal workers out of jobs, taken what ever free benefits they can mooch, & made enough to retire comfortably in Mexico or Guatemala. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Uncle Nicky

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Steuben Jerry said:

AR's are just another step in the direction of banning firearms. The anti-gun crowd is already targeting our deer rifles as high powered sniper rifles. There's plenty of rhetoric about that out there.

Concealed carry is yet another step - nobody "needs" to be walking around with a loaded gun in public.

Semi-auto handguns are also a target as they have been used in mass shootings about as much as AR's.

So first they come for AR's,

Then deer rifles,

Then concealed carry,

Then semi-auto pistols.

We'll get down to that single shot shotgun in no time at all.

It is a slippery slope indeed.

So i guess my question is what is the line?  Claymores? Miniguns? MOABS? AR's? single shots? Or just anything we can buy or want?  Society will never allow "unfettered" 

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Uncle Nicky said:

No, I DO see that (that many who don't own guns want them abolished forever). The media has programmed these folks, I hope that some will wake up & understand history and what can & has happened before, before it is too late. We should do our part whenever possible to try & educate them, however frustrating that may be.

The current crop of people slowly working their way illegally into our country from the south are thieves, plain & simple. I doubt most want to immigrate here & be absorbed into our culture & laws, most will head back to where they came from once they've made enough to retire comfortably in Mexico or Guatemala. 

again we agree on everything here.  and you actually proved my point that they arent comng here for freedom of persicusion.