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Biden Seeks Assault Weapons Ban and Background Checks


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5 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

ok I'll take a shot at it at least the part of gun laws being to limit citizens angry with the govt...lol 

  As i stated above Govt is created and then is always added to and never subtracted.  So who formed this secret plan and group that has been carrying out this secret agenda for the last 50 years?  Its "they" isnt it?? 

what happens is people think they need to do better and therefore think more laws will solve the problem.  But things change and those laws dont cover everything and we need to do something to protect others, then the politicians enact another law on top of another law and end up regulating until govt is so top heavy it falls upon itself.  

Isnt this a reasonable explanation?  isnt this more accoms razor than a conspiracy that everyone outside of your party or platform is out to take down the constitution?  That some of these things are a philosophy you (and I remember) dont believe in but others do and they vote them in? Can it possibly be that grandmothers and mothers in big cities and guys that dont own guns and never will etc , and dont see the need for them want to do something to curb crime and shootings without fully understanding the impacts on their own rights under the constitution, that they never really learned in school.  That people that are ignorant and dont care about concerns of hunters or gun owners and see no need for someone to own a gun also get to vote and be heard even though they dont agree with you? 

Might all that be possible over "they" are trying to keep the people oppressed as a group that has been doing it in secret for 50+ years of mutiple different elected officials from mutiple states from Texas to Maine yet having never been exposed as a group for all this planning and keeping an intergenerational secret that everyone else doesnt see? 

Maybe it really is a huge plan that the elected officials in 1968 have been able to rig the election for 50 years and put in people they have mind warped and developed to do their bidding and keep the poeple at bay and their triumphant success is Joe Biden (?) (sorry i made mayself laugh) while keeping it hidden from everyone.  Or is it more likely that the culture has changed and the will of the people is changing as it has thru history?  I often look at times and dont recognize this country as what it used to be , but so does every generation past and so will every generation next and the people in the current always want to add to what they think is fixing the present?  

To say that laws never curtail any crime then are you saying there shouldnt be any laws?  Laws are intended to keep a rule of society that people elect officials to enact.  Its not a perfect system by any means but its what we have and to think that there is a "they" that has been organized and able to keep this grand plan of dissolving the constituiton is conspiracy theory and these theories being applied from both sides of the aisle is doing nothing but spreading this country further apart and isnt doing anyone any good. 

How dare you come in here and say reasonable things. Who do you think we are?

I am joking of course,it is nice to see someone trying to look at different perspectives. 

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25 minutes ago, phantom said:

You tell me what  gun law would have  stopped  that guy? or are you saying we should just make up bs laws just to make believe we did something ? what conspiracy theory are you talking about? The dems have people believing that you don't  need a background check to buy a gun .  

I've answered all of those questions above earlier. I guess I just need to bail again on the political section. If people don't take the time to read what is there then ask what I've already explained twice. I tire of repeating myself. Esp when several people can't grasp that they want to argue about things we actually agree on. 

Just cause I will answer those in short . 

-I don't believe any gun law would have stopped that guy. I think your referring to the latest mass shooter? 

- I'm talking about conspiracy theories on both the left and right that people think "they" are out to get them. Read above for more reasonable possible options 

-yes i agree many Dems set a picture of it that way . 

When you get time read what I wrote earlier .  I give up trying to explain it further. In my posts my main point was to listen and try to understand others , and most can't even do seem to understand when a person agrees with the same base beliefs but is able to listen to others as well. I leave the echo chamber for now.

 

Edited by Robhuntandfish
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10 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

How dare you come in here and say reasonable things. Who do you think we are?

I am joking of course,it is nice to see someone trying to look at different perspectives. 

Yeah it's a bit frustrating when people want to argue with you and tell you your a problem when they can't understand for some reason we actually agree on about everything.  I guess reading a full post is too much these days.  When in reality all I proposed is that people think differently than them and stating that I DON'T agree with those people MULTIPLE times but I try to understand where they come from and yet  somehow it is me??? Lol. 

Anyway gone from this section yet again. Maybe to return another day. But not soon.   I really should know better by now, so no one to blame but myself.  Back to hunting,fishing and dinner threads for me. 

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25 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

I've answered all of those questions above earlier. I guess I just need to bail again on the political section. If people don't take the time to read what is there then ask what I've already explained twice. I tore off repeating myself. Esp when several people can't grasp that they want to argue about things we actually agree on. 

Just cause I will answer those in short . 

-I don't believe any gun law would have stopped that guy. I think your referring to the latest mass shooter? 

- I'm talking about conspiracy theories on both the left and right that people think "they" are out to get them. Read above for more reasonable possible options 

-yes i agree many Dems set a picture of it that way . 

When you get time read what I wrote earlier .  I give up trying to explain it further. In my posts my main point was to listen and try to understand others , and most can't even do seem to understand when a person agrees with the same base beliefs but is able to listen to others as well. I leave the echo chamber for now.

 

yea I saw on other thread my mistake. Admittedly I did not  read all of your stuff but  the parts a did see sounds reasonable enough the parts I read  anyway its a tuff thing to solve you want to do something but you don't want peoples   rights trashed either. When I get a chance will go back a read more of what you wrote. 

Edited by phantom
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7 hours ago, left field said:

I don’t need to prove you wrong. That’s not how it works. 

Deflecting.

You come on a hunting forum, probably 99% members are gun owners, trying to convince us gun control is a good idea and that the current government has no intention on taking our rights away, even as they actively & publicly telling us that is exactly what they plan to do. That's not how this works.

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7 minutes ago, phantom said:

yea I saw on other thread my mistake. Admittedly I did not  read all of your stuff but  the parts a did see sounds reasonable enough the parts a read  anyway its a tuff thing to solve you want to do something but you don't want peoples   rights trashed either. When I get a chance will go back a read more of what you wrote. 

Thanks and was just frustrated that people tell me I'm the problem when I vote and make most of the same stands they do , yet I just don't believe every Democrat is out to get me and my guns. 

My 83 year old mother votes Democrat, likes venison, likes to fish and doesn't want to take any of your guns away.  God she is evil. Lol.  

I vote libratarian or conservative except when I am so frustrated I can't vote for any of them cause they are all terrible and I am also not the problem for gun owners. 

And my other point that 2A isn't the only issue out there to be worried about and to me it isn't #1 right now with so many issues out there that are so big. 

Ok I promise....out of this section for a bit. Back to your regularly scheduled programming. Lol 

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8 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

My 83 year old mother votes Democrat, likes venison, likes to fish and doesn't want to take any of your guns away.  God she is evil. Lol.  

She may not want to take anyone's guns away, but she is voting for people who do.  Does she understand that?

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1 hour ago, Grouse said:

She may not want to take anyone's guns away, but she is voting for people who do.  Does she understand that?

Everything is black and white to you. Maybe she votes democrat because she agrees with a lot of other issues with them?

Do people that vote republican agree with all things on their agenda? i doubt it. Do they vote republican just because republicans are pro gun and anti abortion? 

There are a few more issues than that to consider if your head can handle it.

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That was not my question, now was it?  Is everything grey to you?

Never said she might not consider other issues.  I asked if she is aware they want to ban guns.  

I don't vote for republicans that want to ban guns.

Generally, Democrats are leftists, and that's why they hate guns.

Edited by Grouse
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2 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Everything is black and white to you. Maybe she votes democrat because she agrees with a lot of other issues with them?

Do people that vote republican agree with all things on their agenda? i doubt it. Do they vote republican just because republicans are pro gun and anti abortion? 

There are a few more issues than that to consider if your head can handle it.

This day and age ,what is it that the Democrats have to offer the working middle class ?all they care about now is idolizing criminals,taxing us more ,worrying about special interest groups ,and destroying this country ,like we have seen since the current joke of a presidency has entered in .Old folks need to understand,this ain’t the Democrats of the 70s

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12 hours ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Deflecting.

You come on a hunting forum, probably 99% members are gun owners, trying to convince us gun control is a good idea and that the current government has no intention on taking our rights away, even as they actively & publicly telling us that is exactly what they plan to do. That's not how this works.

The person who makes the contention has to back it up or prove it. Grouse can't. 

Where did I say gun control is a good idea or that the government has no intention of strengthening gun laws? I called into question Grouse fear mongering about the motivation for the government's nefarious plans. 

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

More proof for lefty on why guns get banned.

So you post a video of a guy who says the same thing that you did without any proof? You need to google harder, bro.

And Dinesh D'Souza? The disgraced convicted felon who was forced to resign from King's College for lying about his adultery and kicked out of CPAC for attacking children?

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2 minutes ago, left field said:

So you post a video of a guy who says the same thing that you did without any proof? You need to google harder, bro.

And Dinesh D'Souza? The disgraced convicted felon who was forced to resign from King's College for lying about his adultery and kicked out of CPAC for attacking children?

I've never heard of this controversy with Dinesh D' Souza--are you sure? Can you tell me where you learned about these transgressions? 

Also, I'm not saying hes right or wrong here , but , I would  careful about how you frame an argument or rebuttal. In your reply, you appear to be suggesting that because of these transgressions, anything he says should be just summarily rejected as he is now discredited. Is that so?   Let me use an analogy here to refute your argument: Do you think that a Prostitute can be raped?  She breaks the law all the time  and--I'm sure--has at some point in her past , has probably lied, stolen , used illicit drugs--maybe has even committed murder; thus, is her testimony creditable?  

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Lefty, I don't need to prove anything to you sir.  I state something you don't believe, you prove me wrong.  Otherwise it's he said, she said.  I think you are triggered because you know you cannot prove what I said is not true.  But I'm pretty sure empirical evidence and objective observation would have a jury side with me.

BTW, the original gun law you cited was in response to Al Capone not complying with the government's prohibition law.  Yes he used machine guns, but it was a war over alcohol.  The govt created the black market for booze and the high crime rate due to the vast profits to be made.  Perhaps gun control was a by product of prohibition.  Today we have the same prohibition of drugs with all the same crime issues.  So one could make a case the govt is creating the crime it claims to be trying to control.

As far as D'Souza goes, you're repeating a lot of leftist talking points that are not credible, because it's hyperbole that generalizes the situation.

And it's from YouTube, not Google. 

Edited by Grouse
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1 hour ago, WNYTRPR said:

This day and age ,what is it that the Democrats have to offer the working middle class ?all they care about now is idolizing criminals,taxing us more ,worrying about special interest groups ,and destroying this country ,like we have seen since the current joke of a presidency has entered in .Old folks need to understand,this ain’t the Democrats of the 70s

The republican party s not the same as in the 70s either,nothing is except gor the minimum wage and milk prices for the farmer adjusted for inflation. 

I dont see what you think the republicans are doing for the middle class. Keeping them in fear of the poor and obedient to the rich maybe?

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1 hour ago, Northcountryman said:

I've never heard of this controversy with Dinesh D' Souza--are you sure? Can you tell me where you learned about these transgressions? 

Also, I'm not saying hes right or wrong here , but , I would  careful about how you frame an argument or rebuttal. In your reply, you appear to be suggesting that because of these transgressions, anything he says should be just summarily rejected as he is now discredited. Is that so?   Let me use an analogy here to refute your argument: Do you think that a Prostitute can be raped?  She breaks the law all the time  and--I'm sure--has at some point in her past , has probably lied, stolen , used illicit drugs--maybe has even committed murder; thus, is her testimony creditable?  

Your prostitute analogy doesn't fly. Of course she can be raped and her profession has no bearing on the facts of that matter. D'Souza, however, like Grouse, is spouting opinion and his character plays a role in his credibility of that opinion, especially when you realize that he is a professional troll. His personal issues are common knowledge. But to make my point about proving your contention, here is what happened in his case: 

On May 15, 2014, judge Richard M. Berman rejected the contention that D'Souza was singled out for prosecution, stating, "The court concludes the defendant has respectfully submitted no evidence he was selectively prosecuted."

See how that works? 

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43 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

The republican party s not the same as in the 70s either,nothing is except gor the minimum wage and milk prices for the farmer adjusted for inflation. 

I dont see what you think the republicans are doing for the middle class. Keeping them in fear of the poor and obedient to the rich maybe?

They are the closest thing to keeping this country together ,and normal .And for that ,I’ll vote for that everytime .Even if I don’t agree on every on every policy .
Now let me ask you ,what do you think the Democrats can do for you ?

I can’t get behind a group that put George Floyd on a pedestal.Who ,while the riots were on going ,promoted it ,the same group who wanted to hang trump over sexual harassment situations that dated back 20 years ,now are quiet about ,Cuomo as well as a few others that are in that side .The hypocrisy of the left side is at the greatest I’ve ever seen it .That party as a whole is the most destructive for this country that I’ve ever witnessed .It’s the one group and it’s followers that would ban hunting ,fishing ,trapping,gun ownership ,public land usage ,gas & oil,meat ect .All the above is how I live my life and make a living .That’s freedom to me .Eliminate the above and what do we have ?

Look at Mexico,one gun store in the whole country ,and the country is ran by the cartels ,people can’t defend themselves ,they have no freedoms .

Look overseas ,no freedoms ,no guns ,ect .They all go hand in hand .

I guess your more important policy’s are going in women’s bathrooms ,illegals by the thousands ,enable more future generations of welfare,take more money out of my check for taxes ,idolizing criminals who get killed ,erasing the constitution ,blaming the white man for everything .I’ll stop there ,not enough room for all the reasons why democrats suck .They say ,there’s a sucker born every minute ..

Edited by WNYTRPR
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The republican party s not the same as in the 70s either,nothing is except gor the minimum wage and milk prices for the farmer adjusted for inflation. 
I dont see what you think the republicans are doing for the middle class. Keeping them in fear of the poor and obedient to the rich maybe?

4 years of our last president and my retirement investments nearly doubled, my taxes went down, the border was more secure and he got nearly all the troops out of an endless war just to name a few.

It that the middle class cares about any of that...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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4 hours ago, left field said:

Your prostitute analogy doesn't fly. Of course she can be raped and her profession has no bearing on the facts of that matter. D'Souza, however, like Grouse, is spouting opinion and his character plays a role in his credibility of that opinion, especially when you realize that he is a professional troll. His personal issues are common knowledge. But to make my point about proving your contention, here is what happened in his case: 

On May 15, 2014, judge Richard M. Berman rejected the contention that D'Souza was singled out for prosecution, stating, "The court concludes the defendant has respectfully submitted no evidence he was selectively prosecuted."

See how that works? 

Why doesn’t the analogy work ? Your position was D’Souza can’t be right because of the character problems he had . The way i see it , the prostitute analogy seems very fitting here because many Would feel that her character is at issue and therefore , anything she testifies to is not creditable . So what If D’Souza did what you claimed ? It has nothing to do with his gun control beliefs as denoted in the video , correct ? 
Also , what does the quotation from the judge have to do with anything ? I was hoping you were going to provide proof pertaining to your assertions that he attacked kids and the forced resignation thing  . 
 

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Oh wait , I missed one point that you made that i need to reply to and expound upon : so your position is that the credibility of someone espousing an opinion trumps that of one testifying about an incident that occurred and the facts surround it in a court of law ? Really? Think about your position for a second — I think , in fact , it should be the opposite shouldn’t it? 
 

Also , you say — with conviction — that Grouse is a troll ; let me turn it around on you ( because you said this to him before In Another post) —probe it !!  

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You're really overthinking this. 

Grouse stated a point, I asked him to prove it and he couldn't. So he posted an opinion piece from a largely discredited professional troll who like Grouse, offers no proof.

I don't think Grouse is a troll. I do think he lives in an self-satisfying echo chamber which narrows his viewpoint into ever narrower black and white terms. Eventually, like Ray McKigney, only he (and his opinion) will be able to satisfy himself.

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11 hours ago, left field said:
11 hours ago, left field said:

The person who makes the contention has to back it up or prove it. Grouse can't. 

So what, we now have structured rules on a hunting forum as to how to reply to asinine comments? Like a debate team? I'll take a page from your playbook here & ask, can you please show me where this is listed in the forum rules?

Where did I say gun control is a good idea or that the government has no intention of strengthening gun laws? I called into question Grouse fear mongering about the motivation for the government's nefarious plans. 

I think this is called "gaslighting". While the exact words may not be typed out, it's very obvious what the government's, and your end-game here is. I don't see it as fear mongering at all, more like a very well-educated guess based on how tighter gun control typically plays out in other socialist-styled countries.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Uncle Nicky
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1 hour ago, left field said:

You're really overthinking this. 

Grouse stated a point, I asked him to prove it and he couldn't. So he posted an opinion piece from a largely discredited professional troll who like Grouse, offers no proof.

I don't think Grouse is a troll. I do think he lives in an self-satisfying echo chamber which narrows his viewpoint into ever narrower black and white terms. Eventually, like Ray McKigney, only he (and his opinion) will be able to satisfy himself.

Which part am I over thinking , the Grouse is a Troll part ? 
 

Or calling you on the  Dnesh D’Souza has no credibility assertion? 
 

Again, I’ll ask you —where did you hear about the D’Souza stuff ? I’m interested in that part of your earlier post and if you can post a link or something , would be great, really.  
 

And Finally , you’re right - Grouse is no Troll and neither are you and I but earlier , you said that he was — come on Man !! :taunt:

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I have an end game? Am I Thanos or Iron Man? Would prefer Dr Strange. My only endgame on huntingny is to shoot a couple of deer on my property this year.

The last few days of discussion have been interesting because they've moved away from Grouse's usual relentless tinfoil-crazy stuff and is a better (and what should be the only) use of this subforum. The discussions came about because of the three shootings this week. And as expected, the government is probably going to impose some limits to guns. Not because it's necessarily the right thing to do, but because they want (and been seen) to do something. 

Grouse's "master plan" is ridiculous. These people (rep and dem senators) can barely dress themselves in the morning, let alone play a long game. 

---

North, this D'Souza stuff is easy enough to look up, but let me start with Wiki for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinesh_D'Souza

 

 

 

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