Another top of the list for NY

[Trial153]

I think a well balanced herd is a pie in the sky concept.  There's no way implement the necessary changes.  I think NY is a huge state and managing the herd between Long Island, the Adirondacks and WNY is a huge task.  In general, I think people love to complain.  I'm not against shorter seasons, but don't think it makes a difference.  In many areas there are just too many deer and shorter seasons won't help that.  Taking guns out of the rut also takes hunters out of the rut and that doesn't make sense for the future of hunting.  Mandatory check stations help.  You need data to make decisions.  As you said, NY doesn't have a clue about numbers.  I truly believe that "managing" natural resources is laughable.  Too many variables.  There isn't a way to micro manage every different area, so some general guidelines are the best that can be done.  You can't manage for winter temperatures, snowfall, rainfall, growing seasons, EHD, changing land use etc.  I think the states pretend to manage deer herds and hunters pretend that they could do it better.  I'm guilty of this too.  I'm mad as hell at VT for going to one buck.  In the end I'm not sure any of it matters that much.

Got ya !! BO hoo We can’t , it too hard…. Bet that applies to more then deer hunting for you.
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out while your crying.

[land 1]

35 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

The sad thing about all the “brown is down” “happy with any buck” “ can’t eat the horns” “shoot what makes you happy “ Types is how freaking intellectually dishonest you all are. Really it’s freaking laughable.

Why is that if some one dosnt agree with you and your take of hunting they are lying and dishonest. I understand where u come from and  dont agree but i get your point and stance  but you draw a line in the sand understanding others and state they are laughable and dishonest people have various views on many things just because some disagrees or has a different stance makes them dishonest and laughable ?

[stubborn1VT]

2 minutes ago, Four Seasons said:

I think 1 buck per hunter your choice of season would be perfect.  There would still be a gun season. Just not during the rut. There could still be a bow/crossbow season and a muzzy season. These other states didn’t get the great deer hunting they have by accident.  Some hunters will bitch regardless of which way the state went. Just the nature of the beast. But Ny will never change because he’ll we have white shirts any tie’s that probably have never stepped in the woods calling our shots.  Hence we will always stay in the bottom of the top 10 deer hunting states. 

1 buck means less hunting opportunity.  I looked at the numbers for VT (we have better reporting that NY) and only 1400ish hunters reported two bucks in 2019.  So the new law saved the lives of 1400 bucks.  Seems pointless to me.  
I believe one buck works in many places, but VT doesn't have the herd for it.  We will never be a top 10 deer hunting state.

Taking guns out of the rut goes against too many years of tradition and history for me.  I can see it could be useful from a management standpoint.  Hunter opportunity is way more important to me than managing for trophy bucks.

[Trial153]

We have the second or third highest hunter density’s in the county, it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar to see having a 6 week rifle season in half the state and 4 week rifle season in the other half isn’t a path to having a well balanced deer herd.

[Shoots100]

1 minute ago, Trial153 said:

Got ya !! BO hoo We can’t , it too hard…. Bet that applies to more then deer hunting for you.
Don’t let the door hit ya on the way out while your crying.

Here's some link's, so you and the other experts here can give them some advice.

 https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/564.html

https://www.dec.ny.gov/54.html

Here's a link for the rest of the drones to learn about NY's white tail deer management, or lack of management.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6965.html

[Trial153]

Why is that if some one dosnt agree with you and your take of hunting they are lying and dishonest. I understand where u come from and  dont agree but i get your point and stance  but you draw a line in the sand understanding others and state they are laughable and dishonest people have various views on many things just because some disagrees or has a different stance makes them dishonest and laughable ?

I am saying this a gentle as possible. Punctuation is your friend. I would love to respond to you because I do believe that your interested in having a genuine discussion, however I can’t decipher a 50 word run on sentence.

[land 1]

So let bowhunters only no x bow, no gun, no loader, enjoy the ability to hunt the rut ? sounds fair....and i know anyone can go bowhunt but maybe they cant for some reason or maybe they dont enjoy bowhunting.

[land 1]

6 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

I am saying this a gentle as possible. Punctuation is your friend. I would love to respond to you because I do believe that your interested in having a genuine discussion, however I can’t decipher a 50 word run on sentence.

lol yeah ok great argument not to discuss something. Just attempt to insult the other guy with something that has nothing to do with the topic....feel free not to respond pleaseeeee

Edited December 12, 2021 by land 1

[land 1]

11 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

We have the second or third highest hunter density’s in the county, it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar to see having a 6 week rifle season in half the state and 4 week rifle season in the other half isn’t a path to having a well balanced deer herd.

Do you me country or county could you please proof read before making comments on others typos , punctuation etc...

[Trial153]

Here's some link's, so you and the other experts here can give them some advice.
 https://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/564.html
https://www.dec.ny.gov/54.html
Here's a link for the rest of the drones to learn about NY's white tail deer management, or lack of management.
https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/6965.html

I say this in all sincerity. I send the DEC and my elected officials my thoughts on this matter often. Any comment period for any germane issue that comes up I give my feed back. I participated in person , for example during comment periods on our AR polite program. That is just one example. At least yearly I email my thoughts and concerns to Basil Seggios and James Farquhar among others. I am sure they are as sick of hearing from me as I am sick of contacting them.

[Shoots100]

Just now, Trial153 said:

We have the second or third highest hunter density’s in the county, it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar to see having a 6 week rifle season in half the state and 4 week rifle season in the other half isn’t a path to having a well balanced deer herd.

Your forgetting that most NY hunters are out in the woods for only 2-4 days of the season.

After opening and thanksgiving weekend, the woods aren't filled with hunters.

 

 

 

[Splitear]

Honest question here, because I truly don't know. Does an increase in mature bucks have a positive  effect on the overall health of the deer herd?

[Shoots100]

3 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

I say this in all sincerity. I send the DEC and my elected officials my thoughts on this matter often. Any comment period for any germane issue that comes up I give my feed back. I participated in person , for example during comment periods on our AR polite program. That is just one example. At least yearly I email my thoughts and concerns to Basil Seggios and James Farquhar among others. I am sure they are as sick of hearing from me as I am sick of contacting them.

Thanks for your participation.

I thought you were just another one of those ivory tower blowhard rack hunters.

If you can enlighten myself and the other members here , what were the generalities of their responses ?

[Just Lucky]

I like the way deer season is in ny. I enjoy being in the woods and having many opportunities to fill tags. 

This year I have noticed a change in deer patterns, from early in bow. Most my sightings have been with in 200 yards of houses. I am located in 8Y, without new home development. It has made me wonder why.

I killed a coyote with the bow, seen 2 others, and have had 2 beer sightings on different properties. The coyotes sing almost nightly.I wonder if predators are starting to have a greater impact on the deer herd than any regulations dec could pass for management.  It seems alot of people deer hunt, but very few actively predator hunt around my area.

 

 

[Trial153]

Your forgetting that most NY hunters are out in the woods for only 2-4 days of the season.
After opening and thanksgiving weekend, the woods aren't filled with hunters.
 
 
 

Maybe in some areas however around here the pressure while it ebbs and flows is pretty well sustained though out the season.
That sustained pressure for a long season causes deer to disperse into the ample areas with no hunting at all. And with increasing urbanization of this state those areas are becoming more prevalent. That is a sure way to have crap deer hunting and hunter satisfaction.

Furthermore if what your saying is true then your making a case for condensed season. If you look at other states you can see they kill just as many if not more deer per square mile then us and do it a shorter amount of time. Letting deer get back into a natural pattern that allows them to thrive.
We have almost double the amount of hunters per square mile then many other states and yet on avg they have shorter seasons.

[Four Seasons]

37 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

1 buck means less hunting opportunity.  I looked at the numbers for VT (we have better reporting that NY) and only 1400ish hunters reported two bucks in 2019.  So the new law saved the lives of 1400 bucks.  Seems pointless to me.  
I believe one buck works in many places, but VT doesn't have the herd for it.  We will never be a top 10 deer hunting state.

Taking guns out of the rut goes against too many years of tradition and history for me.  I can see it could be useful from a management standpoint.  Hunter opportunity is way more important to me than managing for trophy bucks.

Again you keep having to say trophy bucks. Mature bucks will be the outcome of better management but that would also leave plenty of young deer for those that can’t take a mature deer for whatever reason.  When tradition and history has made a poor deer herd when it comes to total management it should not be held the same just because that’s the way it always was. Change has to happen for improvements. 

[Trial153]

Thanks for your participation.
I thought you were just another one of those ivory tower blowhard rack hunters.
If you can enlighten myself and the other members here , what were the generalities of their responses ?

Absolutely. Generally their responses are a cordial reminder that have to manage the herd for many different stake holders, and hunter satisfaction is just one of them. They also generally state that if enough hunters clamor for change they can then justify changes in policy. AR in region 3 and 4 were a good example of that, as it illustrated a change in direction.

The one common theme that has resonated with me, more so in conversations verse email correspondence is the glaring lack of hunter participation or involvement during comment periods, surveys and just in general. It’s painfully obvious to me that the majority don’t give a shit enough to advocate for the resource. Hence the reason that if you read the DEC deer plan it’s much of the status quo.

[Four Seasons]

13 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Maybe in some areas however around here the pressure while it ebbs and flows is pretty well sustained though out the season.
That sustained pressure for a long season causes deer to disperse into the ample areas with no hunting at all. And with increasing urbanization of this state those areas are becoming more prevalent. That is a sure way to have crap deer hunting and hunter satisfaction.

Furthermore if what your saying is true then your making a case for condensed season. If you look at other states you can see they kill just as many if not more deer per square mile then us and do it a shorter amount of time. Letting deer get back into a natural pattern that allows them to thrive.
We have almost double the amount of hunters per square mile then many other states and yet on avg they have shorter seasons.

Exactly.  Less pressure will make better hunting for all age classes of deer. And make a better herd of all age classes. 

[jperch]

I'm very happy with things just the way they are in NY.  I realize things vary quite a bit in different locations.  I hunt in northern Oswego and Cayuga Counties.  I would classify myself as a meat hunter although I enjoy seeing the larger bucks on occasion.  On our farm property in the last 5 years we have taken two big 12 pointers and a truly huge 8 pointer was harvested along with many doe and smaller bucks.  I don't buy beef and eat mostly venison, turkey and fish we have harvested.  I didn't take any of the 3 large deer mentioned above.  I really don't care and am happy for the relatives that took them.  And I can always go over to my cousin's house and admire his 12 pointers without having to foot his taxidermy bill!  As far as I am concerned, we have it pretty good here in NY as far as outdoor opportunities go!

[Shoots100]

58 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Absolutely. Generally their responses are a cordial reminder that have to manage the herd for many different stake holders, and hunter satisfaction is just one of them. They also generally state that if enough hunters clamor for change they can then justify changes in policy. AR in region 3 and 4 were a good example of that, as it illustrated a change in direction.

The one common theme that has resonated with me, more so in conversations verse email correspondence is the glaring lack of hunter participation or involvement during comment periods, surveys and just in general. It’s painfully obvious to me that the majority don’t give a shit enough to advocate for the resource. Hence the reason that if you read the DEC deer plan it’s much of the status quo.

Knowing when these meetings or comment periods were taking place would help get more hunter participation.

You also need to remember that this is NY state, run by mostly liberal anti everything politicians and voters with big wallets.

If it was up to some of those politicians and voters,  hunting would be banned,  so I'm always diligent with the DEC, but don't want to rock the boat to much, as IMHO, the DEC is really the only entity that's keeping hunting alive in NY and that could change in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

[Trial153]

Knowing when these meetings or comment periods were taking place would help get more hunter participation.
You also need to remember that this is NY state, run by mostly liberal anti everything politicians and voters with big wallets.
If it was up to some of those politicians and voters,  hunting would be banned,  so I'm always diligent with the DEC, but don't want to rock the boat to much, as IMHO, the DEC is really the only entity that's keeping hunting alive in NY and that could change in a heartbeat.
 
 
 

I agree, better communication would benefit everyone.

Honestly never really felt like political bents was were overly interjected into the topics of deer management. However no doubt one has to be aware of political impacts on issues. At least in the dealings I have had with upstate politicians of both parties I have always felt that hunting was pretty well received as they understood it was very much part of the constituent base.

[Shoots100]

42 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

I agree, better communication would benefit everyone.

Honestly never really felt like political bents was were overly interjected into the topics of deer management. However no doubt one has to be aware of political impacts on issues. At least in the dealings I have had with upstate politicians of both parties I have always felt that hunting was pretty well received as they understood it was very much part of the constituent base.

Most of the money that runs the Empire state, comes through the cities, which are run by the political elite.

Their minions do their bidding and we're lucky we get the table scraps to support the DEC.

If it wasn't for conservation acts, monetary grants and laws that were passed long ago, NY state would be one big parking lot.

Unfortunately, a lot of the liberal city dwellers have moved upstate because of the ability to work remotely because of covid. While it's been a boost to the upstate economy , they didn't leave their anti hunting beliefs at the city line.

Land that used to be hunted is off limits now and their also effecting small town politics, which is also effecting the local businesses that depend on hunters.

Shortening a season, would mean shortening their income's.

There's a lot of variables that need to be considered with Deer management in NY. 

 

 

 

[land 1]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

I agree, better communication would benefit everyone.

Honestly never really felt like political bents was were overly interjected into the topics of deer management. However no doubt one has to be aware of political impacts on issues. At least in the dealings I have had with upstate politicians of both parties I have always felt that hunting was pretty well received as they understood it was very much part of the constituent base.

Better communication you say this comes from the guy who says people that don't agree with him are "ignorant" "dishonest" laughable" who seems to think all other seasons should be shortened but archery and everyone other then archers need to loose time in the woods.                 I do think as a hunting community more communication and open minds to other peoples ideas is not a bad thing. I could see specific areas that would benefit from some change but as a whole i still like NY hunting as is over all ....

Edited December 13, 2021 by land 1

[suburbanfarmer]

3 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

Your forgetting that most NY hunters are out in the woods for only 2-4 days of the season.

After opening and thanksgiving weekend, the woods aren't filled with hunters.

 

 

 

Hemlock and Honeoye creek stateland parking lots were full today

[bettyho]

As far as hunting goes, I  disagree with him about NY being the worst. As mentioned, lots of states charge for archery season.  And highest annual snow fall? Maybe in the lake effect region. Definitely not in my area.