Do deer go completely nocturnal during late season?

[phade]

Deer are crepescular. Most active at twilight on ether end of the day. Look at how their eyes are built and structured for low-light visibility. They see best at twilight. While we think they see well at night - they actually don't see as well as they do at twilight, but it's still much better than we see and interpret at night with our own eyes. 

The reference to nocturnal is misleading in the way we see/view/interpret the rut, too. But in reality, they're crepescular. We just understand and rationalize what we want or think we see.

[9jNYstarkOH]

56 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

“Thank God” he is a meat hunter and doesn’t worry worry about “Trophy’s” .

I understand you where/are arguing with wolc and I don’t really care. But comments like that may stop others from posting their harvest and I do care about that. Just asking for you to be a little more couth. Some go out and swing for a home run every time some just want to go out and play the game and are lucky to even get a hit. Most are some where in between.

[ncountry]

13 minutes ago, phade said:

Deer are crepescular. Most active at twilight on ether end of the day. Look at how their eyes are built and structured for low-light visibility. They see best at twilight. While we think they see well at night - they actually don't see as well as they do at twilight, but it's still much better than we see and interpret at night with our own eyes. 

The reference to nocturnal is misleading in the way we see/view/interpret the rut, too. But in reality, they're crepescular. We just understand and rationalize what we want or think we see.

Look at you getting all geeky..;) I like it . I learned a new word.

[Trial153]

I understand you where/are arguing with wolc and I don’t really care. But comments like that may stop others from posting their harvest and I do care about that. Just asking for you to be a little more couth. Some go out and swing for a home run every time some just want to go out and play the game and are lucky to even get a hit. Most are some where in between.

No thank you. I am not dumbing down a discussion to placate to the lowest common denominator. If someone can’t understand that context matters that’s on them not me.

[Trial153]

Deer are crepescular. Most active at twilight on ether end of the day. Look at how their eyes are built and structured for low-light visibility. They see best at twilight. While we think they see well at night - they actually don't see as well as they do at twilight, but it's still much better than we see and interpret at night with our own eyes. 
The reference to nocturnal is misleading in the way we see/view/interpret the rut, too. But in reality, they're crepescular. We just understand and rationalize what we want or think we see.

Would you say that conditions that force deer into extended bouts of mostly nocturnal movement is unnatural and stressful for them?

[wolc123]

46 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Are you always such an ignorant hypocrite? Post your buck picture again in case we all missed it the first 101 times.

Merry Christmas, any other requests ?

Edited December 21, 2021 by wolc123

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

No thank you. I am not dumbing down a discussion to placate to the lowest common denominator. If someone can’t understand that context matters that’s on them not me.

I don’t mind the personal attacks directed at myself, but not all are blessed with such thick skin.  You may want to take a vacation in the sun some where, or at least take some vitamin D supplement.  That may help you not to be so inclined to switch to attack mode, at this time of year.

No worries though, and I hope you have a good Holiday season, even if you choose not to hunt.

Edited December 21, 2021 by wolc123

[Trial153]

I don’t mind the personal attacks directed at myself, but not all are blessed with such thick skin.  You may want to take a vacation in the sun some where, or at least take some vitamin D supplement.  That may help you not to be so inclined to switch to attack mode, at this time of year.
No worries though, and I hope you have a good Holiday season, even if you choose not to hunt.

You cry about personal attacks and then you revert to them. You really can’t help but be a hypocrite, as it comes so natural for you.

I will get plenty of Sun hunting in Arizona next month. With two freezers full of moose, elk, caribou, deer, mountain lion and mountain goat I have no reason to hunt around here and miss family time during the holidays.

[Versatile_Hunter]

1 hour ago, phade said:

Deer are crepescular. Most active at twilight on ether end of the day. Look at how their eyes are built and structured for low-light visibility. They see best at twilight. While we think they see well at night - they actually don't see as well as they do at twilight, but it's still much better than we see and interpret at night with our own eyes. 

The reference to nocturnal is misleading in the way we see/view/interpret the rut, too. But in reality, they're crepescular. We just understand and rationalize what we want or think we see.

I never quite understood crepuscular attribution. The twilight window is pretty small. To say that an animal is crepuscular to me suggests that the diurnal and nocturnal periods represent comparable amount of activity or inactivity. But I don’t think this is true. Outside of the narrow twilight phase, aren’t deer simply more active at night than during the day time? There’s got to be tracking data looking at deer movement patterns. Are daytime and nighttime activity patterns actually the same? 

[wolc123]

4 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

You cry about personal attacks and then you revert to them. You really can’t help but be a hypocrite, as it comes so natural for you.

I will get plenty of Sun hunting in Arizona next month. With two freezers full of moose, elk, caribou, deer, mountain lion and mountain goat I have no reason to hunt around here and miss family time during the holidays.

Good to hear.  Is mountain lion and mountain goat good eating ?  I have tried most of that other stuff, but not those.  I would put moose ahead of corn-fed white tails (especially the tongue), and elk and caribou about equal.  The only wild game that I didn’t care for at all was mule deer, antelope, fish eating duck, and spring Tom turkey.

I also like squirrel a lot better than rabbit and hope to get a few of those yet, before the season closes in February.  No warm weather vacations planned for me this winter, but work might send me to Southern CA.  
 

I am sorry if you felt that I attacked you.  My intent is to help you into a better course.  It really isn’t ALL about the antlers.   I will admit that it isn’t ALL about the meat either (just mostly for me).

[Trial153]

Good to hear.  Is mountain lion and mountain goat good eating ?  I have tried most of that other stuff, but not those.  I would put moose ahead of corn-fed white tails (especially the tongue), and elk and caribou about equal.  The only wild game that I didn’t care for at all was mule deer, antelope, fish eating duck, and spring Tom turkey.
I also like squirrel a lot better than rabbit and hope to get a few of those yet, before the season closes in February.  No warm weather vacations planned for me this winter, but work might send me to Southern CA.  
 
I am sorry if you felt that I attacked you.  My intent is to help you into a better course.  It really isn’t ALL about the antlers.   I will admit that it isn’t ALL about the meat either (just mostly for me).

Mountain lion is exceptional table fair. Better albeit different then moose. Think veal vs beef. Mountain goat is fantastic as well, however it tends be on the tougher side, I guess to be expected based on the topography they live in.

I agree moose is best wild red meat in NA, I like it so much that plan a hunt pretty much every three years.

[Trial153]

I never quite understood crepuscular attribution. The twilight window is pretty small. To say that an animal is crepuscular to me suggests that the diurnal and nocturnal periods represent comparable amount of activity or inactivity. But I don’t think this is true. Outside of the narrow twilight phase, aren’t deer simply more active at night than during the day time? There’s got to be tracking data looking at deer movement patterns. Are daytime and nighttime activity patterns actually the same? 

A good graph and the accompanying article.

https://www.deerassociation.com/deer-movement-is-a-mystery-stop-trying-to-solve-it/

[land 1]

Thank god 153 can hunt  TROPHY states since according to him NY is bad and everything is wrong about hunting in NY like he said in the past shorten gun season , no xbow , no extra loader no early seasons, AR,   oh but archery season is just fine .... hmmm so take away from others is good but don't mess with the archery ok ,,,,lol.... I dont know all the over whelming pressure from nasty gun hunters in the super long gun season  didnt stop me seeing about 20 deer last two days this was on state and private that borders state

[Trial153]

Thank god 153 can hunt  TROPHY states since according to him NY is bad and everything is wrong about hunting in NY like he said in the past shorten gun season , no xbow , no extra loader no early seasons, AR,   oh but archery season is just fine .... hmmm so take away from others is good but don't mess with the archery ok ,,,,lol.... I dont know all the over whelming pressure from nasty gun hunters in the super long gun season  didnt stop me seeing about 20 deer last two days this was on state and private that borders state

God has nothing to do with it. I am just happy my wife doesn’t complain too much being away so much.

Sounds like your learning something. Keep at it and I will keep advocating for better deer management.

[phade]

1 hour ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

I never quite understood crepuscular attribution. The twilight window is pretty small. To say that an animal is crepuscular to me suggests that the diurnal and nocturnal periods represent comparable amount of activity or inactivity. But I don’t think this is true. Outside of the narrow twilight phase, aren’t deer simply more active at night than during the day time? There’s got to be tracking data looking at deer movement patterns. Are daytime and nighttime activity patterns actually the same? 

It's not about more active - it's about most. Deer are MOST active at twilight

[phade]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Would you say that conditions that force deer into extended bouts of mostly nocturnal movement is unnatural and stressful for them?

Deer are resilient, I think we would all agree on that.

Hunting is an unnatural tool to manage the herd for successful propagation of the species. It's a Goldilox tool - have to be just right - can't be too heavy, can't be too light. Too heavy, and we have sustainability problems beyond their resilient nature. Too light, and well, you run into human interaction issues and biological corrections - If an area with coons is not trapped, every X or so years, distemper comes in and knocks them down. It creates more violent swings in population dynamics than getting it "just right" via hunting and trapping. 

So I guess my answer is yes and no. Any actions around hunting likely influence more nocturnal movement and increased stress. Balance is probably the real discussion point here.

For those that might think nature taking its course is OK - it likely is without human influence. Our presence has allowed for carrying capacities to skyrocket and shift game and furbearers to more adaptive states. Deer were largely woodland and grassland type animals. Introduce suburbia, ag, etc. that jumps carrying capacity, and now, letting nature take over, just isn't a thing any longer. Hunting becomes the primary tool now, and has been.

[phade]

2 hours ago, ncountry said:

Look at you getting all geeky..;) I like it . I learned a new word.

You should see how I get my wife going....

[The_Real_TCIII]

Deer are crepescular. Most active at twilight on ether end of the day. Look at how their eyes are built and structured for low-light visibility. They see best at twilight. While we think they see well at night - they actually don't see as well as they do at twilight, but it's still much better than we see and interpret at night with our own eyes. 
The reference to nocturnal is misleading in the way we see/view/interpret the rut, too. But in reality, they're crepescular. We just understand and rationalize what we want or think we see.

Thats why I hate a full moon, I believe those favorable light conditions last 12 hours lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Would you say that conditions that force deer into extended bouts of mostly nocturnal movement is unnatural and stressful for them?

Great question

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

I never quite understood crepuscular attribution. The twilight window is pretty small. To say that an animal is crepuscular to me suggests that the diurnal and nocturnal periods represent comparable amount of activity or inactivity. But I don’t think this is true. Outside of the narrow twilight phase, aren’t deer simply more active at night than during the day time? There’s got to be tracking data looking at deer movement patterns. Are daytime and nighttime activity patterns actually the same? 

Maybe in July and august, but not now!!

[Northcountryman]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

A good graph and the accompanying article.

https://www.deerassociation.com/deer-movement-is-a-mystery-stop-trying-to-solve-it/

Yes!! This graph makes alot of sense!! Especially this time of year, how many times have you left your spot at sundown and a half hour later while driving back, deer are everywhere!!  I think their MOST  active time year round is early evening, like first 2 hrs after dark. Least acxtive times in 24 hr period appear tobe  10pm and-2am and 10am-2pm.  Make sense to me!!

[Versatile_Hunter]

1 hour ago, phade said:

It's not about more active - it's about most. Deer are MOST active at twilight

Sure seems that way looking at @Trial153’s plot. I’ll try to pull up the publication and look at the methodology. I’d like to see an actogram, not just distance traveled. For instance, does that plot show active/inactive phases or changes in the range size?

[Versatile_Hunter]

21 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

Maybe in July and august, but not now!!

Deer seems to be moving from 5pm to 8am during the winter. That leftward shift in the evening activity peaks tracks the creeping sunset time through the seasons and shows a beautiful indication of light entraining. 

[Northcountryman]

3 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Deer seems to be moving from 5pm to 8am during the winter. That leftward shift in the evening activity peaks tracks the creeping sunset time through the seasons and shows a beautiful indication of light entraining. 

I agree , but dont believe thir movement is steady all night- light entraining? Elaborate please!!

[Versatile_Hunter]

6 minutes ago, Northcountryman said:

I agree , but dont believe thir movement is steady all night- light entraining? Elaborate please!!

As the days shorten and the sun sets earlier, deer too begin to move earlier in the day.

Circadian rhythms (think of it as an intrinsic biological clocks in cells where gene expression and other cellular activities go up and down) cycle outside of external input. Specific circuits in the eye detect changes in ambient light and entrain (synchronize) these biological rhythms to light and dark cycles. You can see that dear activity (prominent in the evening peak) increases earlier as the seasons proceed from summer-fall-winter. This is consistent with the sun setting earlier through the seasonal progression.