Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[growalot]

I post ...patrol and arrest...My daughter was nearly shot her first gun season on our land...I've been nearly shot 3x's ...Had a truck stop out front with a guy in the bed drawing a bow down on our wht Sannan goats...The farmer we bought from.... described what  Doc says happened to him self and father...He sold us his land over his own 13kids and umpteen grand kids...Saying this to me...NEVER say yes...they are like cockroaches  and next thing you know you'll have ppl asking you who the he!! you are on your own land....I had a trespasser say just that to me...before I escorted him to his car and had him arrested...I've had trespassers call me up and swear at me over the phone....Seriously how dare I the mortgage and tax payer keep them off my lands...Are you kidding?

As far as restrictions...I say no ..it should be voluntary....I plot and have seen a great increase in body and rack sizes and the hunting is near elbow to elbow here....I know that the rack craze already has guys shooting and walking away...wanting to tag a little bigger...that despicable behavior would increase ..at least here ..IMO

[SplitG2]

As I stated in the past forum...I support some form of AR.  I have a farm that we only harvest 3 1/2 and up.  After the second year we saw results and now after 5 yrs it's doing great.

[Doc]

I support AR for those that want to practice it. Actually, I have been hunting under self-imposed AR for quite a few years now without actually making a big thing of it. I'm lucky to hunt in an area where I can be a bit picky and not go too many years in a row without getting a buck. Unlike some WMUs, we always have a lot of party permits so having a supply of venison is never an issue. I can't imagine any scenario where I would ever be a part of anything that would force my standards onto those that don't have the options that I do. What the heck.....I don't even want to do that to anyone who does have the options that I do ...... lol. It's not a real big thing with me.

Doc

[Four Season Whitetail's]

To me ar is a waste of time!!!!I have found so many small bucks dead in the woods it makes me sick!!!People shoot them and then walk over and ground check them and see they dont make the cut and leave them lay to rot.If you really want to help deer hunting fight your ass off to outlaw damage permits to farmers!!I know some that get 50 permits and they dont want the deer so they go out at night and just gut shoot them so they run off and die in the woods!Thats bullshit!!!!Then when someone asks to hunt their land they just laugh at you and say there is no hunting and there is no deer here anyways!!What a joke!!!

[burmjohn]

Did you report those incidents? 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Report to who!!!The state gives them the tags and the ok to shoot at night with a light!!!!!

[burmjohn]

I was referring to the deer you found that don't make the cut, and have found dead.

[SteveB]

Where they shooting after 11pm?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yup its a known thing that happens and its on a state park!!!The park is about 30 miles from a good size city and i think alot of it comes from the city hunters but they will never get caught!!!They use the damadge permits all night long and they shoot anything,not just does like is to be done!!

[SteveB]

Then it's not the permits that are the problem.

If there are violations, report them.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Are you telling me that giving ANYBODY in nys 50 permits to kill deer at night with a light is not a problem!!!!!!!!I dont know where you hunt but we have 700 acres of soybeans and corn and i dont have that problem and my land boarders a huge tract of woods.(fort drum).I think the permits are way out of control.I have hunted alot of places and i have never seen a farm that has that kind of problem.I dont care who they are,most of the permits are misused and unneeded!If alot of the farms that have socalled deer problems were made to open up their land to other hunters you can bet yur sweet a.. that their deer problem would go away like magic!!!!!!

[burmjohn]

I guess I am to be thankful for not having any farms near me where this would be an issue.

[growalot]

Well I do and I've reported it and the whole thing is a joke...They fined one farmer here some years ago for illegal dump of carcasses or some non sense...over 50 deer dumped in a ravine that someone found...big deal they gave him more tags and now...well small learning curve ppl....gut shoot them so they run off his land...

Then lets discuss theses free permits...that by the way we have to pay for doe tags now..well some of us..one way or another ...yet farmers get them free and then lease their lands KNOWING...they can get a higher lease rate for the YEAR AROUND doe shooting...I'm sorry ..Ya I have a problem with that when you have a state dept. crying about not having enough money..then wake up and start managing it like the business it is!

[RTF]

Aint got time to read this whole thread, but I am totally for antler restrictions state wide. Although I am a meat hunter. I say let bucks reach their potential. They at least deserve that.

[sweet old bill]

I AM FOR  it except for youth hunter to get them into our sport and or senior's (over 65 )to keep them hunting.

[SteveB]

As soon as someone can explain to me how shooting 1.5 year old 6 and 8 pt bucks ( or even 2.5's) lets bucks reach their potential, I revisit my opposition to state wide AR. Good luck.

[SplitG2]

SteveB, I don't think anyone thinks by haveing AR will protect all the 1 1/2-2 1/2 year old bucks nor is a 2 1/2 year old buck mature.  I think AR will help some of the bucks get to the next level 3 1/2 or 4 1/2.  Deer that are over 3 years of age don't act stupid like a 1 1/2 year old, they get smarter and are harder to hunt, increasing their survival right to get older.  I also dont think just a point system will work.  I would like to see width as a measurement as well.

[SteveB]

Split - that's why I try to use age (voluntarily) - still a guess. In 7j and 7h nearly 60% of the 1.5's are 6pt or better. Allowing 6 pt's to be shot will have the effect of almost no increase in 3.5's.

Education is the key - especially when the claim of over 60% supporting AR. If those 60% would walk the talk instead of paying it lip service, we would have AR. The other 40% can't kill all the 1.5 killed every year since the hunter sucess is less then 20%.

[SplitG2]

Steve, same here. I use age as well to judge deer.  Education is key!

[avg. joe]

As a two state hunter, PA and NY, I have seen both sides of antler restictions. I always hunted western NY to have a chance at bigger and better bucks than PA offered. After years of antler restictions in PA, I still hunt NY for bigger and better bucks. I have had to pass on several mature bucks in PA because of the restictions in the area I hunt (4 points to a side). I have seen some of the same bucks for 2 or 3 years that did not have any more points than the year before. There is a lot more to it than age, there is genetics and nutrition as well. If all you are looking for with antler restrictions is bigger racks, save your money up and pay to go on a trophy hunt somewhere. The PA hunters were sold a bill of goods about how antler restrictions would produce more trophy racks, don't jump on that bandwagon too quick, it isn't all it was promised to be!

[steve863]

Completely against AR's.  The states sole responsibility is to control deer numbers by setting up a hunting season for them.  The number of points a male deer happens to be wearing on his head at the time he is shot doesn't matter one tiny bit.  Those who don't want to kill small bucks can wait for bigger ones.  Quite simple, and no one is telling anyone else that they can't shoot a smaller buck if they so desire.

[Buckstopshere]

When you whittle it all down, AR's does exactly opposite of what it intends.

The smallest, scrubbiest bucks in any woodlot is held sacred, sacrosanct. "Oh...we must protect the little buck so he can grow..."

And yet, the best, the 1.5 year old six-point or even eight-point is immediately shot off.

AR's have it exactly wrong.

Instead, shoot that spike and four-point and don't let the know-it-all's make you feel bad about it. Instead, give the best, the little six- or eight- a chance.

A buddy of mine has a property where for years, all legal bucks have been fair game, despite the AR chest-pounders. A bunch of guys have hunted the property over the last few years and guess what?

When they shoot a spike or three-point they are tagged out and out of the woods. This gives the bucks with better potential a chance to grow. Under AR's the scrubs would be all over the place.

His trail cam photos of this year's crop of dandy bucks is truly impressive, and last year they shot a 160-class buck...that's right no AR's. How can it be?

AR's have it exactly upside down. AR's protect the culls.

The spikes and three-points should be shot...and they taste great...certainly a lot better than tag soup.

[SplitG2]

Buck, I appreciate your opinion however I disagree.  We both had our arguments on the last forum regarding ar so I don't want to go back and forth.  With that said Culling an animal in the wild will have no impact on genetics.  There are plenty of studies on it.  Also, there are many reasons why some deer are spikes and others not...nutrition, their born date etc....now we do practice some sort of ar on our farm for the past 5 years and have a much better age structure.  We also still have spikes even with 30 acres in food plots.  It happeneds and that's ok.  So is the opinion not to have ar.  Shoot what you want but to say ar is bad, I would have to disagree.

[Buckstopshere]

Split: I respect your opinion. We agree to disagree....;0) All the Best!

[SteveB]

Here is an article that supports somewhat  what BSH is saying.

At least that shooting the best can have a negative effective.

http://www.mississippigameandfish.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/ms_aa122902a/index.html