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I try real hard not to be lured into taking any "quick shots" or any kind of shots where I feel pressured for time. The scope forces me to do that. Whenever I hear the phrase "quick shot" being used, I think of scenarios of "jump-shooting" deer like rabbits with such speed that things in the background tend not to be looked at with enough scrutiny to ensure safety. Among other undeniable benefits, I see the fact that things are forcibly being slowed down as the biggest benefits in the realm of gun safety. It is just possible that one of the main reasons for the vast improvements in NYS's safety record is the proliferation of scopes in the deer woods. Not only do you automatically slow down the shooting, but you also get a magnified clear view of what's behind the target with the only vision obstruction being the thin crosshairs. I'm a big fan of scopes not only for my use, but also for those around me that are shooting in my vicinity.

An expanding rifle bullet NOT expanding at close range, but then expanding at longer range ? It doesn't work that way. Any given bullet will tend to expand MORE at close range because of it's higher velocity.

I can't tell you how many deer I've killed with my Browning BPS Buck Special 12ga smooth bore. 50 plus I guess, on the run , 100 plus yards , under my stand , every possible way . When Ontario county went rifle I took the scope off it and it's sat in the safe ever since .i like to practice with my guns a lot , but a 12 ga pump shooting slugs just sucks after a couple boxes My .270 has killed a few since ,many at bow distance but some " out there" I seldom , maybe never even worked the bolt to load a second round, I just grin and hang it back up. I hunt a lot of thick stuff too ,bringing the 12 ga just never occurs to me anymore. If I wanted to change it up for close shoots in cover I'd consider a 30-30 open sights .

So got the gun sighted in on Friday and was impressed with the accuracy. Started at 10 yards since my bore sighter is at camp just to get close to center. Moved to 25 yards and got zeroed there. Then moved out to 100 yards for final sighting. This gun literally shoots a 5 shot group covered by a nickel at 100 yards. Granted conditions were perfect so I wasn't seeing any movement from wind. Me and a buddy went out squirrel hunting Saturday afternoon and when we entered the woods there was a squirrel at 40 yards. I leaned on a tree and let one rip. Squirrel #1 in the books. We walked around for a bit and my buddy ended up shooting a couple more inside 30 yards. We were pretty much done and he grabbed my arm and said there's one on that stump down there. Pulled out the rangefinder and he was 103 yards away. I laid down and opened the bipod for a steady rest. Held on his head, squeezed, and watched the squirrel fall off the stump. My buddy got it on camera but didn't have the squirrel in the picture. This will be my go to small game and small varmint gun for sure.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but deer dead on the ground don't prove gun accuracy. Pics of your 3-5 shot groups at 100 yards, that's more definitive. There are slug guns out there that are accurate as hell, I've seen them and own one. But I would never say it could compete with a rifle when it comes to overall accuracy. Ok, since now we've turned the OP's simple question into a six of one half dozen of the other debate, Let's be honest, everyone has their own preference for short range and thick brush weaponry. Not everyone is capable of shooting as good or poorly as the next person. Not everyone knows their guns like they should. I don't think the OP is pursuing a new gun. I think he wanted to know if he should put a scope on it, use open sights, slug recommendations, and if his barrels would work. I hope he figures out his barrel situation and can get some range time in with his gun to decipher which slug is best. And hopefully he got some good advice in here amidst all of the disagreements.

The lack of knowledge in terminal balistics is amazing. There is a lot more to the story of how a bullet performed than the size of an entry or exit hole.

One shouldn't judge the expansion, or lack thereof, by looking at the exit hole. A bullet designed to expand may very well expand and expend most of its energy early on right after entry and may be left with a fragment of the bullet at exit. X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Costanzo's rolls, Miller's horseradish, beef-on-'weck at Anacone's...Sometimes I really miss Buffalo.

Last night we had our last (pretty sure) pack of backstraps from last year but for some reason we had leftovers. Today the Mrs. went and got some au jus sauce, Costanzo's Rolls and some fesh Miller's Horseradish. I sliced the left over 'strap paper thin and left it in the heating au jus sauce for about 10 minutes. Steamed some broccoli and nuked some leftover smashed potatoes and put it on a plate. It was excellent but the Miller's Horseradish was incredibly snappy. Holy cripes did it open the old nostrils......................man o man! Miller's is made in good old Lockport, NY. We've been buying it for many, many years but it's never been like THIS.

Fade in. The family is sitting around the dinner table after the Christmas feast, discussing current events, and having some laughs. The youngest person in the room is 20 yo, and it's a pretty intelligent group of doctors, dentists, nurses, college students, etc. The subject of gun control comes up and my SIL makes a comment: "Only a crazy person would think they need to carry a gun everywhere they go." Without really thinking, I made the mistake of saying: "I'm not crazy, but I'm carrying a gun right now." Oops. SIL kind of flipped out, like I was somehow an immediate threat. She's a school teacher, btw. She asked to see it, and I told her no. (I wasn't going to make it worse.) She asked me why I was carrying and I told her it's like putting on socks in the morning, I don't give it much thought any more. ... Things mostly returned to normal for the evening, except for the icy stare-daggers from the SIL. My brother called me last night to say they had made it back to New Hampshire okay after their holiday excursion. He chuckled when he let me know that his wife is still seriously pi***d at me. He's a family psychologist, so he'll work it out.

I thought she did pretty good. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/12/30/eva-shockey-paving-way-for-women-hunters/

^ you just take your level-headed, rational posts to another forum mister. There's no place for them here

I think that is a very poor decision on their part. A simple google search will link to many many cases of lost guns that were taken during car break ins. I think there was even one out here in Rochester a ways back where a Chief had his vehicle broken into at a mall and his duty gun taken.

I haven't shot one purposefully hunting them in years nor have I been out in a while. Meaning to change that this winter. Here's a big male buddy trapped this morning. Like the raised hackles and snarling teeth.

Don't ignore the other flank of the attack: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/California-Gun-Law-Seize-Guns-Without/2015/12/30/id/707588/ No-knock raids for removal of firearms from law-abiding citizens has essentially been given an okay in CA. The Republic will prevail in the end, but it's going to be a real chit-storm in the interim.

Sorry to disappoint you, guess you were baiting me huh? That's about all I got from your post, the rest was just a mangled mess of grammar and misspellings I don't care to decode, but I think I got the gist of it. It's always the equipment, or the neighbors, or the stars and moon wasn't lined up, I get it. It's never you, because God forbid anyone challenged your ethics and skill. Shooting at a running coyote 3 times and missing everyone of them, doesn't sound convincing. You still have yet to recover that coyote. X-Calibur Lighting Systems http://facebook.com/XCaliburLightingSystems

Been there , done that !

Good point, Shawn..The Nosler partition is a good example of this. Many people think of the partition as a "tough" bullet that expands slowly, because of its reputation for deep penetration. Actually, the partition is a very fast expanding bullet. The front section expands very quickly and does a lot of damage just inside the entrance wound. The front section usually washes away and the sealed rear section stays together, retaining about 65% of the bullet's weight, and keeps penetrating, usually exiting. Exit wounds for NPs are often smaller than entrance wounds because of this. Often hunters look at the small exit wound and think the bullet did not expand properly, despite the fact that they are standing over a very dead animal.

I think the younger generations in America have already accepted tyranny in their futures.

A healthy distrust of governmental authority is one of the founding principles of the US. Legislating against that distrust is a sure path to acceptance of tyranny.

You're inexperience shows. Why not post up a picture of the entire woods; you know, your face and the "big woods" behind you? You were aiming specifically for the heart, WHY? You were really stretching it at 45 yards.......... Admit it, you hunt Erie County and you can't use a centerfire gun but you would if you could. Oh, I promise you my rifle (any of them) will be more accurate at 50 yards than your shotgun. This discussion is certainly not moot.

Thank you all for your birthday wishes. Daughter and wife got me this. DSD Jake. Hope to see Mr Tom try and lump this one up This will pair nicely with my DSD upright hen I've been using.

I bet most 3.5 nys bucks are harder to kill than most 4.5 Iowa bucks are.

as we get old these things do occur. At 74 I sure misplace things such as the wife, bills, kids, and grandkids. But not the key things like car, guns and my trusty compound bows or stick bows. Can think back to were I shot that first deer and who I was with. It seems just like yesterday. But were did I put those keys for the master lock on the tree stand...???? it is a great day if you still see and say green side up. You look out and can still see the grass is green. My wife got me a cheap cell phone to take in the woods with me to call 911 if I fell or had to call the son in law to drag out a buck. Now that when it hit me that old fart shaving was me. so have a great day and green side up....

Prove it!!! Tomorrow shoot a video of a 3 shot group with this magic gun you pick the distance and the shooting position and After posting I'll do the same shot with one of my rifles and we will see who wins. I'm not dissing shotguns at all, I have killed plenty of deer with them but to compare the accuracy of a smoothbore with a bead to a Scoped rifle is ignorant. But the challenge has been layer out let's see what you do. At 100yds your standard 1/8" bead covers roughly 15" and about 16" at 120yds. Unless your browning shoots very high and allows you to lolly pop or 6 o'clock hold at that distance you would basically be covering the front half of the deer with your bead, not ideal for pinpoint accuracy let alone minute of deer.

Honest to Penelope, not too many police SWAT teams using open sighted 20ga smooth bores for THEIR task. I don't take my responsibility lightly, I choose the most accurate option available and I dare say I knew my shotgun/slug as good as ANYBODY. I shot plenty of slugs each year, testing different loads when they came out with new/better options. Rifled barrels, telescopic sights etc. are not going to be out shot by smooth bores and open sights at the extended ranges that the best slugs today are capable of. Ain't happening............ Fire Suit Donned!

And by "pick up" he means using a folklift

could've said "it's ok it's the kind that goes... pew.... pew....pew... and not p-p-p-p-p-pew." even better you could've said "what's crazy, is to think I'd carry around a cop all day. I mean when you need help you need it quick!"

Probably a pair/M n F

Thanks for the post Biz.

Really?? all of them?? and you know that ALL of them left their guns in their cars…right?? If so that was their decision. I guarantee I know more cops then you do and None of the ones I know would leave their guns in their vehicles, once they got to a family gathering. Wheather that gathering was in a public place or at a family members home. They would consider it protecting their family members rather than protecting themselves from family members, which you obviously believe to be the case.

I just got a custom mauser '98 in 7x57 and it came with an old fixed M8 4x on it. My lop is fine but the scope is all the way back in the rings and it is still a neck reach to see the full field of view through it. It is also a little foggy. So, I don't want to cut the stock. I'm thinking about the Leupold 3x fixed scope with the long tube (not any of the short tube scout scopes or rifleman scopes). I can get it from SWFA or the custom shop with choice of reticle. I love low power scopes and you all seem to agree that even 2.5 is enough for less than 200yds. Frankly, the only reason I even use the higher power on my 1-6 is to sight in and load development, then I turn it back down to some where between 1 and 3x depending on where i'm at. What do you guys think about the 3x Leupold straight tube scope on my 7x57?? p.s., I'm sending the M8 4x back to the factory for refurbish, can't let a good scope go to waste!!

I believe it closed down some time ago. I remember going their when the big guy Anacone served us. He packed heat under the bar , in case there was trouble.

I do that at least a couple of times a day !

I have the lcp and lc9 for pocket carry. I carry in back pocket most of the time unless I'm wearing shorts. I carry my lcp just because it's a little smaller. Both beat the hell out of having a knife.

Here are some other suggestions in 9mms. I too have been looking at 9's and the possibilities seem endless. http://www.best9mm.com/compact9mm.html

Happy Birthday. Hope you enjoyed the day.

Don't let gastrodoc see this thread.............................

You can get them though sometimes I feel ppl overestimate them if that is even possible

I carry 100% of the time. Whomever doesn't like it that their problem not mine.

When do you kids go back to school??

Yeah this 219# (dressed) 4 1/2 year old that I shot in 2004 wouldn't be legal with antler restrictions & he was the dominant breeder in my neck of the woods.

I'm not defending your SIL , but maybe she was offended that you found it necessary to carry at a family dinner at Christmas ?

It's entirely up to her to get over her hoplophobia. I taught her husband (my kid brother) how to shoot 40+ years ago, and I taught her kids how to shoot and handle guns when they were teenagers. The kids had a lot of fun plinking that day, and they still comment on it.

Yes extremely, was a huge undertaking to do 45lbs in one day, but we got r' done. Thank god i had the help of 2 of my boys. Gotta see my 7yr old crank that sausage stuffer, he was lots of help. Thanks.

Should have offered her a smoke and a beer to take the edge off.. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

If I wasn't using the rifle , I think I would prefer the In-line ML over the shotgun . The ML is more fun to shoot .

Oh no .... I'm not getting into this one. It's too damned embarrassing.

Speaking of 2 keys on the same ring, i locked the garage door with both keys on the workbench last week. A trip to my dads house to get the angle grinder to cut the door knob off and i was back in business. O ya did i mention it was the second door knob i had to cut off the garage this summer , what were you saying about being absent minded?

wow, can they suck any more life out of what is supposed to be a primitive sport?