Doc

These kinds of fatalities are always so hard on the survivors. But if it is of any comfort, it should be noted that he went doing what was a central part of his life. We don't choose the time and place of our departure, but if I could, I would ask to go during a hunt rather than many of the other ways to go. Doc

Actually, you don't know who you were referring to since you don't have a clue who on here passes up what, do you? I guess when you were talking about "the same as you guys.. shot the first deer that came by me", you were imagining something about somebody ..... eh?

The point is that a trophy is not measured in inches. There are a lot of factors that make it a trophy to an individual. For some people any deer taken fairly and legally is a trophy and it's not really up to anyone like you to be determining what should be a trophy for other people.

Thanks for the congratulations. That was my 1st bow kill and I have the antlers plaque-mounted right over the fireplace.

Which is kind of a slick way of saying you really don't know .

I kind of wonder if this Saturday opener thing is really working. I thought it was a great idea (I was a working stiff with vacation schedule problems once too), but now I'm beginning to wonder. Maybe they shouldn't have messed with it. In our area, I would be hard pressed to put the total blame on any one thing because over the years the change has been so dramatic. But it does seem like the Saturday opener has not had a significant positive force in making participation any better and perhaps it has even hurt things a bit. Doc

So, is there anyone who actually knows and cares to explain the actual criteria (be they physiological and/or otherwise) that describes what makes a deer "mature"? Doc

First of all, I noted the first shot of the day to be 6:40 am. There is no way that that is anything close to safe, legal or responsible shooting. I noticed on a few other threads that some heard shots even earlier than that...... Not Good!!! Second, I noticed that this year like other recent years, the shooting was fairly normal during the first hour of the season and then tailed off dramatically during the second hour and really got sparce after that. Further, all shooting that was occuring was on private land and even though the state land that I hunt is full of deer, it was absolutely silent. Also, my wife checked out the state parking lot yesterday morning and said that there were only a few cars parked there. Now, I remember a decade or four ago when opening day (same area) was almost non-stop shooting throughout the day. Also, you almost had to get on stand extra early in the dark just to reserve your favorite spot because there were so many hunters there. I also remember state parking lots being full with cars running down both sides of the road for a ways (opening day, first Saturday and Thanksgiving). I also remember driveways down through the valley being clogged with cars of friends and relatives hunting the hills down here. And of course I remember deer hanging in yards, and strapped to fenders of cars, etc. Lately, it is unusual to see a harvested deer anywhere. These are kind of major changes. Here's another observation. I just finished hunting today and for being a weekend day, it sure was pretty darn quiet. There were a few sporadic shots fired here and there, but for being the second day of the season and a "freebie" as far as not having any interference from work duties, it just didn't seem like anything special. So the question: Is this just a local phenomenon or are there others around the state who are observing the same kinds of things. I know the number of hunters is heading for the dumper, but what I am seeing goes way beyond that. It looks like actual participation is down much more than a simple slow decline in license sales. Doc

Ok, I have been playing with only two cameras, and only the past few months so you can factor that anemic level of experience into the credibility of my comments. However, I have noticed that when one buck shows up, several others start showing up about the same time. Also, I have gaps in excess of a week when no bucks show up (for no apparent reason). Also, I have a lot of single-visit bucks that just seem to pop in from nowhere and disappear just as quickly. Also I have a picture of a nice buck with just one 4-point antler (theoretically should have been an 8-point) that showed up one night. I believe it to be the same deer that my nephew shot part way up the hill on the other side of the valley, in excess of a 1/2 mile away. His description sounds like the same animal and when we have our family Thanksgiving get together, I will verify that. My tentative conclusion is that this time of the year, bucks travel great distances and those that show up on trail-cams most likely will not be hanging around for hunting season. While they are nice to see, there probably is no reason to get too hopeful about seeing them again during hunting season. This also makes me begin to wonder how many of these scrape lines, and clusters of rubs are simply one or two night stands that may or may not ever be re-visited in the future by the same buck that made them. I am seriously wondering if these bucks really have any special areas that they spend a whole lot of time at once the rut kicks in or whether they are simply running around from one cluster of does to another. So, what do you all think? Any observations that back up or disagree with those observations and conclusions? Doc

Like... Like .... some kind of over-weight, multi-pointed, grizzly-buck. That along with every other aspect of the season being perfect might rank up to a ten. I wouldn't expect too many "tens" in a lifetime. And I sure never want to the other extreme experience (a zero or a one) .... lol.

It just doesn't get any better than that! Your daughter actually had a part in the hunt. Great idea!!! Doc

For me, a season has to be a bit special for a 10 rating. A ten would definitely have to include a harvest (after all that is the object of me carrying a bow instead of a camera). In fact a ten indicates a perfect season that just doesn't get any better ..... that would require a special kind of deer ..... . Doc

I hunt from the ground. I have no choice since I have a pretty severe case of fear of heights (vertigo is what they call it I think). My opinion is that I am definitely hunting with an additional handicap. Yes, I have done well for myself and have fine tuned the art of ground-standing as good as I can and have been doing my hunting that way exclusively for a few decades. However, I am not going to try to fool anybody that ground-standing is as effective as tree-stand hunting (I'm speaking here purely about bow hunting). Scent detection is a magnified problem. That's not to say that scent from elevated positions is not a concern, but scent tends to stay together better and in a tighter plume at ground level and does not disperse as well as scent released overhead. Scent is not as much of a problem when gun hunting because you are not working with a short range limitation. For bowhunting, movement is also a serious problem for the ground-stander. You really have to manage that problem because when you are working on the same level as deer, they really don't miss much. Trying to draw that bow at eye level without the deer catching that movement is a trick and requires some real good use of cover (even in a pop-up) Ground blind construction is also something that requires a whole lot of finesse in order to not disturb deer patterns or draw attention with something foriegn in their livingroom. That's not always a problem, but I have seen cases where it was. Yeah, things are a bit harder from the ground. However, when you can no longer be comfortable up in a treestand, or as in my case, simply cannot even get into one, you do what you have to do. You will find that you are not in as much of a minority as TV and magazines make you think. What I have found is that the excitement factor has increased tremendously. Looking your prey in the eye on their level certainly makes the heart beat a bit faster especially on those occasions where they are almost in reach out and touch them. Groundstanding also adds a bit more challenge and therefore a bit more satisfaction. To me that's what bowhunting is all about ....lol. I also remember how the size and shape of a tree drove decisions as far as stand location. That doesn't always work out to be the best reason for where you set up your ambush. In general, I believe that groundstands have quite a bit more flexibility in terms of location. So, it's not all bad news that you have to move to ground hunting. Generally I construct my ground blinds way in advance and have plenty of them. I have just started to experiment with pop-up ground blinds and really am a novice at their use. I think they have a lot of potential and I'll be working with them a lot more in coming seasons. I will say that I have discovered a few shortcomings (usually learned the hard way .... lol). Anyway, good luck on the beginning of a whole new way of hunting. I think you will eventually get to the point where you won't miss the treestands at all. Doc

So for you, a mature deer has a range of age (3-1/2 to 4-1/2). If someone says they only shoot mature deer, you consider they are talking about a deer that is between 3.5 and 4.5 and on up. I have never really read a discussion on what features or traits actually define a "mature" deer and yet I hear the term used all the time. I might have assumed that maturity might be linked to a point where the average deer stops growing, or maybe a point where certain aspects of it's physical condition begin to deteriorate in certain key ways. The actual criteria for that term still escapes me.

That wind was a good test for your hunting gear efficiency. Even in the 40's, the wind has a way of stripping the heat right out of you. For the most part I stayed fairly comfortable. I got my doe fairly late in the morning (11:00) so I had quite a few hours to test out my Under Armor and my new shiny orange hunting coat. I would say they both passed the test. Speaking of wind, I found it interesting what happens to a west wind when it slams into a west facing hill. I had a north-south-east-west wind direction. All directions with the same duration and intensity. How that group of does got within 40 yards without catching my wind is a complete mystery. At any rate, we missed all precipitation, and I am thankful for that. I would rank the weather for this opener as "fair" for this year. I certainly have seen much, much worse. Doc

I suspect there are quite a few hunters that say they are for AR simply because it is the politic thing to say. It always makes you sound a bit like a more proficient a hunter when you stress just how selective you can be. Of course many of those simply do not live up to the talk when they actually get out in the field. That is the problem with polls and surveys and such. Not only do you have to worry about conducting your polls in an accurate fashion, but you also have to worry about who is really telling you the truth vs. just telling you what sounds good. Doc

I guess I would give it a 5. I had a few hunts wrecked by persistant small game hunters, and some hikers and bikers, but there were a whole lot of great days out doing what I love with reasonable weather and a lot of deer sightings (both bucks and does). I didn't get the job done, but still had a great time for most of it. Doc

After the gun season is over, get out there and start the scouting process. Drag the bow down to the nearest shooting range, maybe even join a winter league. If you haven't already, this might be the year to buy some maintenance equipment (bow press, etc.) and start learning (on a cheap 2nd hand bow) how to perform some of the upkeep, maintenance, and experiments on your own. Never can know too much about your equipment and how it all works. There's so many ways to stay active with the bow to help pass time until the next season. Before you know it, you'll be hanging stands again for next year's bowhunt . Doc

I hope to be reporting in tomorrow night with blood stains on my shiny new orange hunting coat and stories of the monster buck that didn't get away ;D . My record on opening day hunts isn't as good as the average hunter. My successes usually occur in the days after the opener. However, I can certainly hope to break that streak. So wind or no wind, I will definitely put in a complete day's hunt and be hoping for the best. I'm also hoping for the best of luck for the rest of you too. Doc

I don't think they are done growing at 2-1/2 years are they? .... or are they? Of course I guess I am putting my own definition on mature when I ask that. So, for you, 2-1/2 is the age at which a deer is mature. Your answer is as good as anyone's. See, I don't even know what the criteria is supposed to be to call a deer "mature". That's why I asked the question. Doc

I bought a brand new Bolens back in the early 70's. Used the heck out of it for everything from trail riding to wood hauling. Eventually, we stopped getting snow for a few consecutive years, and I started letting the kids use the snowmobile. It took them a season to completely kill it and I finally got rid of it for parts. Silly me .... I thought the thing was built like a tank and was indestructible. They figured out a way to turn it into trash. In our neck of the woods, there doesn't seem to ever be enough snow to get your moneys worth out of them, so I never bought a replacement machine. Instead I have bought a few ATVs which are useful year around, and have saved me tons in snow-plowing money. So for me, the ATV seems to be a much more practical item than a snowmobile. I know there are tons of people who either live in northern NY or take their machines there to ride, that would disagree with me (for good reason). Doc

Yeah, one says that no deer should be shot unless the antlers are outside the ears, others want to see a certain number of points to try to assure that the deer is "mature" and worthy of harvest, others assign actual birth date requirements (i.e. a deer should be 2-1/2 years old, or 3-1/2 years old or 4-1/2 or some other arbitrary measure of maturity). I am expecting some proposals for buck restrictions that require tooth-wear verification before harvesting. The whole darn thing is getting a bit silly. However for those that insist that only "mature" bucks are appropriate targets, I just have this curiosity as to what people are calling mature. Doc

Somebody should make a nice blaze-orange blanket for the horses ;D

I have used fletch-tite since shortly after 1965, and have never had a problem that I could blame on adhesive. I have made all my arrows (wood, aluminum, and even some carbons for other people) since that time and have given the stuff a very thorough testing over the years. The stuff is not all that expensive for the number of arrows a tube will do, so I have never had any reason to try to cut corners in that area. Doc

Actually, I don't know where you are coming up with that "saves one life" statement. It's not anything I've ever said. Please don't waste time trying to imagine what I might say or what you imagine I should have said. My posts are very clear and don't really need any fictionalizing. I take it you have not yet bothered to read the articles that I linked or you wouldn't be talking about "one life". That's ok, I'm sure it is a lot more fun to imagine the storm-trooper scenario about government take over of your civil rights than actually delving into those nasty old statistics that clearly show the close relationship between failure to wear blaze orange and hunting casualties..... lol. Perhaps you had the same arguments when the seat-belt law was passed, I don't know. But at any rate, I'm just not buying it. I think that whatever you imagine that the evil empire is up to, blaze orange probably is not even on their radar . At any rate, I have made my position absolutely clear, and I am most likely not going to be swayed over to the "world conspiracy to enslave hunters" theory. Also the arguments are getting redundant and I suspect that others are getting as bored with it as I am. So I would suggest that we simply agree to disagree on this issue ..... at least until it becomes a real legitimate proposal in the legislature and actually shows some promise of ever seeing the light of day. Doc