bow season opener on oct 1?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, I can only speak for myself, but Im sure there are many others that feel the same as I do when I say that I do not think a special youth hunt is the ONLY way to introduce kids to the sport. I feel that its a good idea and part of the solution.The only way to find out for sure if it helps, will be to try it and see. The old way of introducing people just doesnt work anymore, thats the ONLY thing we know for sure at this point.

BTW, I also do not believe that the small amount of pressure over those two days will put the deer into hiding for the rest of the season. That seems to be the biggest excuse for guys not wanting it.

[defrazzle]

I think the youth hunt is a good idea! I can not remember last when I saw an adult mentoring with a "younger" person. If we don't get our youth involved the numbers of hunters will decline. This will be especially true and more evident when we start to look more like Europe, such as Germany. There you need MONEY, INFLUENCE and PASS a hunting test where the failure rate is 50%. Not to mention that the course you need to take lasts about 1 year! After you pass the test, you will need to purchase mandatory liability insurance. And after you do all that - you still don't have a place to hunt because all hunting property in Germany is either private or state. State land hunting is controlled by the regions game wardens who shoot and SELL the game they take on their particular area. The private hunting land is regulated by the lease holder and if you want to hunt, you need to get into the "clique" in that area. Ask me, I been there and done that!

So my point is, lets get our youth hunting, involved in game management and eventually good citizens who will vote to stop any government encroachment to our current hunting liberties/responsibilities.

My idea is to have us as hunting stewards get involved with area schools and propose presenting a not-for-credit seminar/course in hunting history and the affects of future non-involvement in managing our areas/states/country game.

So, if you are really concerned about the hunting future for generations to come.....consider this youth hunt a first step. If it doesn't work, what would you suggest?

[Chevy]

I thought the first step was when they moved opening day to a saturday, against stiff oppositon, so the kids could hunt.

Archery lost the last weekend of their season which can't be made up by days in October. How did that blind experiment work?

No effect. Neither will the youth hunt. Kids want to take part like adults during the regular season. So please take your kids with you to camp. Hunting during the heat of October is no substitute. Lowering the age to hunt from 16 will help the problem, hopefully its not too late.

WNY, stop stalking my posts. its creepy.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Dont flatter yourself, I dont stalk you posts, I just make sure to show spin for what it is, when I see it. Doesnt matter who does it. Anyone thats been on this site for some time has seen me call people out and disagree with posts like that.

[wdswtr]

I smell NYB just saying lol. I will never ever understand this debate. AND yes Im an avid bowhunter and its my top choice to hunt with. Some are just never happy no matter how it will play out. From my understanding the choice for the saturday opener wasnt due to just kids, it was a big part of everyone works during the weekdays and there was less opportunity for alot of hunters to get the time of for the opener. Like I said once you start hunting the early Oct1 season you will be pleased Im sure. And then the day they change that you guys who dont like it will complain its gone. Bottom line is bowhunters are getting more time in the field and why would anyone argue that? The old debate of we lost the most important weekend of bow season is hogwash. Every day is the most important cause there isnt that many to begin with. So what if I have to give up a couple days to make it a special one where father and son, mother and daughter or whatever the scenario may be for them to share a special time in the woods dedicated all to them. If anyone thinks that a couple days for a youth hunt is going to alter "the bowseason as we know it" is kidding themselves cause there is more involved in the picture than just yourself. We get more time in the woods and certain group of people whine, we get a special youth hunt and people wine. NYB could get everything they want right to the crossed t's and dotted lines and I am willing to bet they would still whine.

Edited June 5, 2012 by wdswtr

[erussell]

I wish they would move the youth hunt to the first Sat and Sun of the gun season and open regular season up to everyone on that Monday. That would ensure all the deer were on my property prior to opening day of gun and would be sweet!!!!

[Doc]

Doc, I can only speak for myself, but Im sure there are many others that feel the same as I do when I say that I do not think a special youth hunt is the ONLY way to introduce kids to the sport. I feel that its a good idea and part of the solution.The only way to find out for sure if it helps, will be to try it and see. The old way of introducing people just doesnt work anymore, thats the ONLY thing we know for sure at this point.

BTW, I also do not believe that the small amount of pressure over those two days will put the deer into hiding for the rest of the season. That seems to be the biggest excuse for guys not wanting it.

My initial reaction is that I would be surprised if this special season is even noticeable to bowhunters. I could be wrong, and since my hunting is almost exclusively on state land, I might be in for a rude surprise ..... lol. That remains to be seen. But I don't expect significant participation.

But my point about the special season is simply that I don't see any reason why anyone should expect that hunters who do not take kids afield for hunting now during the regular season will all of a sudden get involved in taking kids afield during any special season. In fact, a special season represents even more effort on their part than if it was a normal day of hunting during a regular season when they were going to be out there anyway. Where is all this sudden outpouring of hunters helping kids into the sport going to come from? .... simply by declaring a couple of days as a special youth hunt? Sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking without a whole lot of logic behind it.

Yes, we can flail around trying this and trying that and the only thing that really gets accomplished is that everyone assumes someone else is taking care of the problem because they have established all these fancy special seasons. Instead of fooling ourselves with special gimmicks, I would rather see programs established to recruit mentors during the regular season. Don't ask me what would get hunters to take up this kind of activity, but if we are going to pin our hopes on anything, lets get behind mentor recruitment and stop trying to cram new seasons into the year everytime somebody gets a brain-fart. Aim the solutions at the problems instead of just seeing how much controversy we can stir up.

I'm thinking the DEC needs to open up a line of communications with archery and gun clubs and similar organizations and try to enlist their assistance with recruitment and mentoring. I think a PR activity at the time of license sales needs to begin to explain the crisis and the potential roles that hunters could and should take as a solution. These are things that will really make a difference, not trying to tear apart the hunting community with meaningless special seasons.

I'm thinking that a lot of this cry for special seasons comes from people who do not currently get involved, and are hoping that merely creating the season will get someone else to handle it for them. The pitiful thing of it all is that no one has to go out with gangs of kids or go through any heroic efforts to maintain the inflow of new hunters. Simply replacing yourself and maybe one or two others along the way would do the trick. That's all it takes, and it is truly hard to believe that each one of us can't bring one or two people into the sport. What the heck is so important about what we are doing that we can't do something like that? I see the DEC as the catalyst for making this happen, and it really shouldn't take half as much effort as all this fighting and arguing about inappropriately stuffing seasons into other seasons in ways that are guaranteed to cause the maximum amount of controversy.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I agree that we need more mentoring programs, and we should have programs in the schools, and also incentives for land owners to allow hunters.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I thought the first step was when they moved opening day to a saturday, against stiff oppositon, so the kids could hunt.

Archery lost the last weekend of their season which can't be made up by days in October. How did that blind experiment work?

No effect. Neither will the youth hunt. Kids want to take part like adults during the regular season. So please take your kids with you to camp. Hunting during the heat of October is no substitute. Lowering the age to hunt from 16 will help the problem, hopefully its not too late.

I think it is all about population control and let's face it. Bow hunter DON'T get it done. It is the how it works. the bow is more difficult than gun hunting because of the restrictions in the equipment. That is why they are toying aruond with the early ML in the areas of the SZ that need more control. They removed the no hunting Sunday out here. That basically doubled the season for the average Joe. Put the opener on a Sat to put more people in the woods on the opener to increase take. I think if they reduced the age like you mention it would help too.

I am not a hige fan of these special season gimmicks. I learned in regular season going with my Father before I could even hunt. I think once you hit 16 you should be in the regular mix. if they lower gun to 12 then let the young kids have their couple days. BUT hammer any adult with them that is found to be doing the harvesting. We all know that is the motivation of some folks. Have the kid with them but they still do the taking.

[Doc]

I smell NYB just saying lol. NYB could get everything they want right to the crossed t's and dotted lines and I am willing to bet they would still whine.

By the way, the fact that you are even getting an opening day of October 1st is 100% due to the efforts of the only bowhunter advocacy group in NY ..... the NYB. Had it not been for their constant lobbying, you would still be wondering why we start our season so late. Nobody else is out there pushing archery issues, and there are no other people in NYS that gives a rat's behind whether bow season even exists.

As far as opening up opportunities for youth hunting, I have to point to the NYB operated youth hunts in Cador and in Syracuse.

Let me also mention their work in providing money and instructor training for the National Archery in the Schools Program.

I might also point out their successful lobbying for the use of DMPs for junior archers with no additional fee.

Also there is the NYB Youth Camp that has exposed 1400 young adults to archery since the program's inception.

You might note that they, being the only NYS bowhunter advocacy group at work in our state, are responsible for legislative pressure and success at lowering the bowhunter age to 12 ....... And on and on and on. I think they have done their part toward recruiting youths into hunting with good logical targeted efforts and programs. They probably don't deserve the constant nit-picking attacks that people have become so fond of launching (especially bowhunters who profess dedication to hunting with a bow but fail to do one thing toward furthering the sport).

The fact is that there is no other group that keeps bowhunter's issues before the legislature ...... None. I have only listed some of the activities that involve youth hunting recruitment. I am not going to take up the space to list the legislative achievements, and the programs for disabled archers, and the programs for our service people overseas or other benefits that we all take for granted that were secured for us by the organization that so many want to see destroyed. There are a lot of young people who would never have been introduced to archery and bowhunting if these anti-NYB people had their way. Nobody has any problem with cheerfully reaping the benefits of the hard work of the NYB, but seem to be willing to discourage any support of the only bowhunters who have ever lifted a finger or dipped into their pockets to provide any benefits at all for all bowhunters over the last 21 years.

Sorry to get off on a tangent, but frankly I get a bit tired of this incessant whining and sniping from people who offer absolutely no thoughts or ideas or activities about alternative organizations.

[G-Man]

As for taking a kid with you to hunt during the regular season im all for it ... unfortunatly there are many single parents out there who do not hunt, or have access to take their child hunting as they have to work,or the fact that the camp they belong to just doesnt have room to accomadate the youth and parents during the reg season as all the places are filled by adults. . the younger age this targets is a big step in getting kids involved before technology takes over their lives. a special weekend where only kids are in the field with parent/ mentor is in my opion a good attempt at trying to get them involved in the outdoors. As for what nyb has done im all for it but i still dissagree with their treatment of the crossbow. As you said there are other organization working toward this crossbow result and as a sportmans group i would think nyb should welcome them into the fold and not taunt/ bullie / slander their efforts. if they worked with them maybe we would have a seperate crossbow season instead of bickering over the bow season we have.

Edited June 5, 2012 by G-Man

[SteveB]

And I think it is funny that some think that NYB walks on water - even though they attempted to implement an early MZ season with the states MZ group. The non member bow hunters of NYS where able to expose and halt this betrayal.

NYB has done some great things for the youths and for the seasons - as do a lot of others.

Lots of others have, are, and will continue to do positive things for ALL hunters in NYS outside of the less then 1%

that NYB seems to be able to have for membership ( in spite of signing new members every year). Low membership perhaps because they are run by a handful who refuse to allow any input from the general membership so the turnover rate is high and hunters put their efforts elsewhere.

[SplitG2]

The bigger issue is the legal hunting age. I took my nephew to Ohio to hunt deer this past year. He was 10yrs old. NY needs to lower the legal hunting age to 10. Also, his hunting licesnce only cost $10 dollars!

Edited June 5, 2012 by splitg2

[WNYBuckHunter]

I dont feel that NYB had much to do with the Oct 1 opener, it had more to do with the large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over, and the DEC seeing what is working in other states. NYB's 1% of the bowhunter population is miniscule.

NYB may have done some good things along the way, but their elitist attitudes and closed minds towards other issues have sealed their fate.

[Chevy]

As for taking a kid with you to hunt during the regular season im all for it ... unfortunatly there are many single parents out there who do not hunt, or have access to take their child hunting as they have to work,or the fact that the camp they belong to just doesnt have room to accomadate the youth and parents during the reg season as all the places are filled by adults. . the younger age this targets is a big step in getting kids involved before technology takes over their lives. a special weekend where only kids are in the field with parent/ mentor is in my opion a good attempt at trying to get them involved in the outdoors.

Poor excuses. So what happens when these kids turn 16? There's no room at camp for them because of the selfish adults. Do they hang it up at age 16?

[MountainHunter]

I smell NYB just saying lol. I will never ever understand this debate. AND yes Im an avid bowhunter and its my top choice to hunt with. Some are just never happy no matter how it will play out. From my understanding the choice for the saturday opener wasnt due to just kids, it was a big part of everyone works during the weekdays and there was less opportunity for alot of hunters to get the time of for the opener. Like I said once you start hunting the early Oct1 season you will be pleased Im sure. And then the day they change that you guys who dont like it will complain its gone. Bottom line is bowhunters are getting more time in the field and why would anyone argue that? The old debate of we lost the most important weekend of bow season is hogwash. Every day is the most important cause there isnt that many to begin with. So what if I have to give up a couple days to make it a special one where father and son, mother and daughter or whatever the scenario may be for them to share a special time in the woods dedicated all to them. If anyone thinks that a couple days for a youth hunt is going to alter "the bowseason as we know it" is kidding themselves cause there is more involved in the picture than just yourself. We get more time in the woods and certain group of people whine, we get a special youth hunt and people wine. NYB could get everything they want right to the crossed t's and dotted lines and I am willing to bet they would still whine.

You just hit the nail right on the head! I am also an avid Bowhunter and I welcome most any thing that lends itself to more youth involvement!

I am also no fan of NYB, I personally think they are a very small non representative group who take liberties in suggesting they represent the interest's of all NYS Bowhunters. They do not represent my thoughts or opinions, that's for darn sure!

[Chevy]

I dont feel that NYB had much to do with the Oct 1 opener, it had more to do with the large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over, and the DEC seeing what is working in other states. NYB's 1% of the bowhunter population is miniscule.

NYB may have done some good things along the way, but their elitist attitudes and closed minds towards other issues have sealed their fate.

I think you are wrong. NYB negotiated for this time when the DEC took the last weekend of archery season for the gun season. DEC agreed to compensate archery season by opening early. DEC reneged. Now we are just getting what was agreed upon.

p.s. you need NYB on that wall. You can't handle the truth...

[Lawdwaz]

I dont feel that NYB had much to do with the Oct 1 opener, it had more to do with the large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over, and the DEC seeing what is working in other states. NYB's 1% of the bowhunter population is miniscule.

NYB may have done some good things along the way, but their elitist attitudes and closed minds towards other issues have sealed their fate.

Who else was at all those meetings asking for the Oct 1st opener? I'm sure NYB is the only reason we have it.

I've been a Life Member (#11 actually) since December 21, 1994 of New York Bowhunters I joined as a yearly member in 1991. I was in early and agreed with most of what they pitched back them. Times have changed for them and me since 1991. I have considered pulling my Lifemembership at times due to their attitude on some issues such as the crossbow and youth hunt.

They worked hard for many things and we have all benefited from NYB at one point or another.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Cant handle the truth? The truth is that the NYB is a miniscule number of elitist bowhunters that cant handle anything to be any way other than what they want. You guys just keep your blinders on while the rest of the world moves right past ya.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Who else was at all those meetings asking for the Oct 1st opener? I'm sure NYB is the only reason we have it.

I've been a Life Member (#11 actually) since December 21, 1994 of New York Bowhunters I joined as a yearly member in 1991. I was in early and agreed with most of what they pitched back them. Times have changed for them and me since 1991. I have considered pulling my Lifemembership at times due to their attitude on some issues such as the crossbow and youth hunt.

They worked hard for many things and we have all benefited from NYB at one point or another.

I acknowledged that they have done good things in the past. The NYSCC and other groups have been lobbying the DEC, as well as individual hunters sending emails and responding to surveys. NYB cannot take all the credit.

[Doc]

I dont feel that NYB had much to do with the Oct 1 opener, it had more to do with the large numbers of bowhunters begging for it over and over, and the DEC seeing what is working in other states. NYB's 1% of the bowhunter population is miniscule.

NYB may have done some good things along the way, but their elitist attitudes and closed minds towards other issues have sealed their fate.

Just how many people comprised this "large number of bowhunters"? What sources are you using that says that "large numbers of bowhunters" demanded anything? What possible evidence do you have that there was even a peep out of this so -called "large number of bowhunters". What I do know because I am a member of NYB and have followed the issue since its inception is that they publicly began the pressure back when the Saturday opener rules were implemented and we lost season length. That's not guessing, that is fact. At that point, the NYB began their lobbying efforts for an October 1 opener. Not anybody else. Not some mythical groundswell of bowhunters .... the NYB by themselves.

My experience with hunters in general is that they do not rise up and speak their minds to anyone other than each other. So no, I don't buy your claim that there is some grass roots bowhunter activity that is at work on our behalf on any bowhunting issues. That is pretty much wishful thinking.

Yes the NYB is suffering from membership shortages, and this constant self-destuctive carping over this and that is the main reason why. But, that small percentage of bowhunters known as the NYB fortunately has the ear of the DEC and the legislature, and whether anyone likes it or not, they are the only valid and recognized voice of bowhunters to the movers and shakers that have anything to do with bowhunting rules and regulations. No, we don't always get our way, but our way is the only official bowhunter voice in the state. So rather than sitting back and throwing darts at our own organization, you would think that those who have such strong feelings about some of the decisions, and some of the administration, would get off their dead rumps and try to fix it to become what they think it ought to be.

Also, the only elitest, close-minded attitudes that I see at work are those that think there is something cool about badmouthing the only representation that bowhunters have in this state. Instead of strengthening and unifying, we are nit-picking and self-destructive. Everyone has something to say about the organization and it's administration, but no one is doing a thing to change it .... proving how much easier it is to criticise than it is to do something positive. The anti-bowhunting rhetoric that has been launched against the NYB is akin to the threat by the animal rights group to end bowhunting. There are two kinds of people in this state that absolutely revel in the fact that the bowhunters are completely disorganized, and the antis are one of them. Wouldn't it be nice if the rest would try to do something positive instead of simply assisting the antis in their campaign against organized bowhunting representation.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc I am going off of comments the DEC has made about the amount of emails they receive on these issues.

The NYB is not suffering from membership shortages, they never had many members to begin with, and those they have lost have been because they cut their own throat with their elitist crap.

Saying that a group with 1% of NY bowhunters as members speaks for all NY bowhunters is like saying the Hells Angels speak for all motorcycle riders.

It would be great if there was a bowhunting organization that brought bow hunters together instead of dividing them like NYB has done.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

It would be great if there was a bowhunting organization that brought bow hunters together instead of dividing them like NYB has done.

...And the Huntingny Bowhunters was born. Who's in?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'll send my dues. Let's go for it

[NYbuck50]

Im all for having the youth hunt and especially the Oct 1st opener... I mean seriously,, how much "pressure" is it really going to put on deer? Stand land by me is packed with bow guys anyways, so a kid or two with his dad going for his first deer will have a marginal effect on the pressure we already have. Hunt and let Hunt