The Expanded Antler Restrictions - Who is excited?

[A Sportsman]

Thats not a nock on non-serious hunters. There's nothing wrong with someone hunting as much or little as they want. What I meant was that AR guys may think that the guys who hunt 2 days per year are the guys who don't want ARs. Like because they only hunt so little, they want to be able to shoot a small buck.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Not easy at all . That is one of the biggest hurdles that DEC has. WMU's vary in themselves and the differences across our state is even bigger.

I see it in the 5 WMU's i hunt. the difference between 5H and 8H is huge They vary in habitat, food sources, hunter density and deer population. 3 of the top 10 biggest bucks I have ever seen were in 5H, I took one and the other two never got shot at by me. the rest of the bucks I have seen only would have had 2 that made and 3 (took one of them) on a side AR. That is a 30 year duration. (no doe tags there). So in a 30 year history I had the chance at 5 that were AR worthy. And I still go back every year.

Now in 8H it is a different story. the property hunt has regular sightings of bucks over a 120 class and mature. The majority of yearlings have 3 on a side. The rule would not benefit the area in my view and any percieved benefit would be outwieghed by loss of hunter choice.

[nyantler]

I am still a firm believer that the best way to get hunters to pass on younger bucks is through education about it's benefits to both the herd and hunter... 20 years ago when I started introducing the concept to hunters here in NY... I might as well have called their mother a dirty name... they thought I was out of my mind (which I may be, but for other reasons).. today we see more and more hunters voluntarily passing on young bucks than ever before... it takes a lot longer that way, but it doesn't piss off the hunters that need to kill a buck every year at all costs like a mandate does.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

and that education and approach I can get behind anyday.

[nyantler]

I am actually quite surprised at how voluntary AR's took off in recent years here in NY... somehow I think a lot of the younger hunters..(meaning the ones in their 30's) tend to be really into the qdm thing... the old-timers (65 plus) not so much... I really think that the prospect of bigger antlers is the driving force for younger guys which is disappointing to me, but it is what it is.

[Skillet]

Yes, enjoy some awesome scouting and hunting.

Ah, I see. You always need the last word.

[aoudadhunter]

AR has worked wonders here in Texas the counties that never produced a 160" buck but every 5 years are now producing alot of old deer and a few 170" bucks every year and a handful of 160's regularly

[Skillet]

AR has worked wonders here in Texas the counties that never produced a 160" buck but every 5 years are now producing alot of old deer and a few 170" bucks every year and a handful of 160's regularly

Is that on public land? Or high fenced, controlled environments with feed supplements?

[aoudadhunter]

They are on certain counties and since Texas is 92% private land public land mgmt is not a concern and in the part of the state that has AR there aren't any HF places hardly or even hunting properties just a bunch of 10-200 properties. There isn't really much hunting industry in these areas. Just people hunting friends and family's pastures. And certainly no protien anywhere

[Skillet]

They are on certain counties and since Texas is 92% private land public land mgmt is not a concern and in the part of the state that has AR there aren't any HF places hardly or even hunting properties just a bunch of 10-200 properties. There isn't really much hunting industry in these areas. Just people hunting friends and family's pastures. And certainly no protien anywhere

I was just wondering. I'd heard that Texas has almost no public land. That sucks, & I bet you get laughed at if you ask permission.

[Doc]

They are on certain counties and since Texas is 92% private land public land mgmt is not a concern and in the part of the state that has AR there aren't any HF places hardly or even hunting properties just a bunch of 10-200 properties. There isn't really much hunting industry in these areas. Just people hunting friends and family's pastures. And certainly no protien anywhere

That is one depressing description of Texas hunting land situation. I had no idea. Maybe we don't really have it so bad in NYS.

[jjb4900]

not a fan of restrictions, what about the guy's who don't have time to live on the internet because they are too busy working dusk till dawn working on their farms, and have no idea what's going on because they have more important things to do, like making a living? not to mention that DEC does not poll everyone and goes on what special interest groups with money push for? believe it or not, some folks don't hunt for antlers....

[jusputtn]

I'm still a firm believer in the freedom to make my own choice, not to be told what my choice will be.

[jjb4900]

here's an example, we have a house next to a man who is 90+ years old, every year he get's a buck, spike or 4p, pretty sure he don't care about eating antlers ....it's a struggle for him to drag himself to his hunting spot, but he does it unassisted and get's his deer. he doesn't own enough land to get a landowner's permit and is not guaranteed a dmp.....he feeds himself and his blind wife on what he get's...is it fair that now he may not get that food because of the restriction's? I'm sure he's not the only one who rely's on a deer for food...the antler restriction proponent's certainly have no idea how this affects these people.

[nyantler]

here's an example, we have a house next to a man who is 90+ years old, every year he get's a buck, spike or 4p, pretty sure he don't care about eating antlers ....it's a struggle for him to drag himself to his hunting spot, but he does it unassisted and get's his deer. he doesn't own enough land to get a landowner's permit and is not guaranteed a dmp.....he feeds himself and his blind wife on what he get's...is it fair that now he may not get that food because of the restriction's? I'm sure he's not the only one who rely's on a deer for food...the antler restriction proponent's certainly have no idea how this affects these people.

The DEC can not and does not make laws concerning conservation based on the needs or wants of a few hunters. That would be like saying that there is a hunter out there that poaches deer to feed his family... so we ought to do away with all the poaching laws to accomadate that hunter... it just can't work that way. I can tell you for sure that if my family was in that desperate a need for food.. no antler restriction or other law would keep me from feeding my family. Not to mention, Obamahas a plan for people that need food... it's called food stamps... they're easy to get.. in fact, more americans use them than ever before..lol

Edited August 22, 2012 by nyantler

[jjb4900]

not to mention, a hunter's first deer is probably just as important as their last....have you ever seen the look on an older hunter's face when they get a deer? it gives them the chance to say "hey, I still got it".....much more important than showing off a big rack. If anyone has an aging father or relative, I hope you can relate.....we've really messed up the meaning of hunting if it come's down to antler size.

[nyantler]

Have you ever seen the face of that same guy after he shot a 150 class buck?? Same face.. only the smile goes from ear to ear!! It's all about antler size.. some like smaller, most like bigger.. but still about antlers for most hunters... otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them.

[jjb4900]

sorry, but antler restrictions are based on the wants of a small / special group...I never mentioned any illegal activity in my post. DEC did make their antler restriction's at the voice of a few vocal hunter's.

[jjb4900]

I've shot both..same smile.....my dad has shot both as well, and yup ,same smile, but it's getting harder and harder for him to get around, do you feel ok telling him and other's like him that they might never take another buck because YOU want a bigger one?........problem is, we don't all have the same opportunities on the land we hunt...........so this argument could go on and on.

[nyantler]

sorry, but antler restrictions are based on the wants of a small / special group...I never mentioned any illegal activity in my post. DEC did make their antler restriction's at the voice of a few vocal hunter's.

Not true... it was thought out for many years and proposed by more than a small group and the group is growing.

[nyantler]

I've shot both..same smile.....my dad has shot both as well, and yup ,same smile, but it's getting harder and harder for him to get around, do you feel ok telling him and other's like him that they might never take another buck because YOU want a bigger one?........problem is, we don't all have the same opportunities on the land we hunt...........so this argument could go on and on.

You are assuming that I want AR's for bigger bucks.. you couldn't be farther from the truth... it's just that your argument against them is a weak one if it's just so your dad has a better chance of killing a deer.. you should be lobbying for more DMP's if thats the case... if you understand how AR's increase the amount of older bucks in the herd.. you'd know that your dad will soon have a much better chance of taking a mature buck as the program progresses... I would count my dad lucky if he could even get out to hunt.

[jjb4900]

I'm not saying you're wrong about the support for antler restrictions, just arguing your statement that DEC doesn't base and can not base their law making on the wants and needs of a special group...that's how antler restrictions came into play.

[burmjohn]

I'm not saying you're wrong about the support for antler restrictions, just arguing your statement that DEC doesn't base and can not base their law making on the wants and needs of a special group...that's how antler restrictions came into play.

I wanted them, I was not a part of any special group nor are the 30 + hunters I know that hunt cross 3H, 3J and 3K.

[jjb4900]

I respect your opinions as I hope you respect mine, and you responded like gentlemen............good hunting!!!

gentlemen..............good hunting!

[nyantler]

I'm not saying you're wrong about the support for antler restrictions, just arguing your statement that DEC doesn't base and can not base their law making on the wants and needs of a special group...that's how antler restrictions came into play.

That isn't true... they had support from 57% of hunters canvased from those areas... most not in any group at all. Plus, nothing was based on any individuals hunters personal situation... it was based on the amount of yearlings being harvest in those areas each year and a consensus by the hunters to give AR's a try..