send letters for crossbows in NY

[ny hunter]

So are crossbows allowed or not.

[Chevy]

I heard no, and then I heard yes. So I don't know. We can even get a budget passes so how does the Gov have time for crossbow bills?

[ny hunter]

Thats what I thought also.

[fasteddie]

I heard someone slipped it into the stack of papers that Governor Patterson was signing as Vetos ............ ??? ... ??? ... ???

[Doc]

It would be a great thing to let the hunter decide which option to use as they need to make choices.

And the weather in bow season can be far more enjoyable to someone experiancing these conditions. An aging hunter has earned the right to choose.

Hey, I am an aging hunter. I like choices. I like the warmer weather hunting. How about we change the laws so this old geezer can eventually grab a rifle when I feel like it and hunt deer during the early bow season? How far do you want to go with this nonsense. "An aging hunter has earned the right to choose", you know.

Yes, I know how some would answer that ...... lol. If I asked that question in a serious fashion, there would be some here that would say, " yeah ...... what's wrong with that idea".

Doc

[SteveB]

How far do you want to go with this nonsense. "An aging hunter has earned the right to choose", you know.

Simple - allowing all archery equipment to be used in the bow season - including that 2400 years old.

[Larry]

•     I am a bow hunter but I am not oppose to x – bows but the  bill could have been crafted better.
  In addition, it is the NYB is who cut their own throats oh  yeah; seeing they claim they represent all bow hunters in the state they cut  are throats to. The NYB could have help crafted a bill that would have allowed  those who needed to use an  x – bow could  have used one (age requirement & modify the handicap requirement). Instead,  the leadership of the NYB chose a position of no x-bows. Knowing they would eventually  lose. I think the NYB needs new leadership.
  

[Doc]

How far do you want to go with this nonsense. "An aging hunter has earned the right to choose", you know.

Simple - allowing all archery equipment to be used in the bow season - including that 2400 years old.

But see now you are going against that wonderful benevolent attitude that you expressed a few replies back. You are advocating now that the aging hunter should not have the right to choose. You want to make those choices for him, and sure enough, that is exactly how these things work isn't it? You are agreeing that we always have to put limits on things. We don't always have the right to choose just because we have reached a certain number in our age. And by golly as long as we are having special seasons, there has to be some limits as to what is put into those seasons. We certainly disagree as to where those limits should be placed, but none of that really has anything to do with age (nor should it) and it's unfortunate that people try to muddy the waters by trying to bring that into the discussion. There are still very viable options open to those that can no longer participate in the physical activity of bowhunting and thousands of people use those options every year. Shotguns, muzzleloaders, rifles and pistols provide those options along with the appropriate seasons. Nobody is being deprived. So to use aging or physical limitations as a reason to cram inappropriate weapons into seasons that were never intended to have those weapons is just a false issue.

Doc

[SteveB]

Nice try, but you are reaching and making a poor attempt to twist what I have been saying all along.

Which is there is no reason to not all allow all archery equipment in the bow season. Do this and all hunters have the choice of what ARCHERY equipment they wish to use should they want to participate in the bow season.  To say that advocating the inclusion of all BOWS in the bow season somehow equates to anything else is simply disengenuous and an arguement that indicates a position based on emotion and not facts.

[SteveB]

So to use aging or physical limitations as a reason to cram inappropriate weapons into seasons that were never intended to have those weapons is just a false issue.

Was the bow season intended for weapons like these?

Or things like these.

[Campwildwood]

Very good point SteveB. With the constant onslaught of new "bows" and "bow" gadgetry available to bowhunters, you have to question those who oppose crossbows into the archery season, when does a compound bow no longer fit in their definition of what is considered a bow? Many apparatuses available today enable the compound user the same benefits as an xbow, therefore I feel the argument against xbows is a mute point.

[Doc]

Yes to all of the above. They are all hand drawn, hand held, BOWS that require all of the same form and mental disciplines and consistancies in order to be successfully and accurately shot. None of which applies to a crossbow. But then that is pretty obvious isn't it?

Actually, I already made that same point earlier in this very thread, but thank you for giving the opportunity to repeat it (again!). It is an important point that refutes the constant distortions when it comes to compounds and those people using them as a bogus precedent to jam crossbows into bow seasons.

A lot of people before us warned of this happening back when the compound acceptance arguments first took place. Who would have guessed it ......... it turns out they were right...lol. I wonder what kinds of things people of the future will try to cram into the bow season using crossbows as a precedent.  But then you don't really care about that do you?

Doc

[ny hunter]

Does a cross bow have any advantage over a compound bow.I just do not see what all the fuss is about.But thats just me.We live where a person has a choice.I am going to hunt with a compound bow.A rifle and an in line this year period.

[Doc]

Does a cross bow have any advantage over a compound bow.I just do not see what all the fuss is about.But thats just me.We live where a person has a choice.I am going to hunt with a compound bow.A rifle and an in line this year period.

LOL....... there have been volumes written and re-written and re-written again on that subject in these kinds of forums. Obviously there must be an awful lot of people who think there is a significant advantage or there wouldn't be such a push for acceptance. Certainly the crossbow manufacturers are slolidly aligned behind the position that they are the best thing since sliced bread and never hesitate to point out all the advantages of their product. I would say that over half of the people hunting in Ohio's bow season think there are advantages since the kill numbers due to crossbows has out stripped those killed with real bows for quite a few years now. I have heard quite a few hunter-heroes on TV proclaiming the advantages of the crossbow at levels that even surprised me.

The bottom line is that anyone will readily admit to the advantages of the crossbow over any vertical bow unless they are engaged in an argument over the inclusion into bow seasons and then you would have to wonder from their statements just why anybody would ever want to own one. You get this sudden turn-about.

So that is a subject you will have to figure out for yourself. You will never find a resolution to that question in a forum.

Doc

[Chevy]

Of course there is an advantage. You need to draw and hold a bow and arrow in the presence of the game animal while the cross gun is locked and loaded. Just put the crosshairs on point and shoot just like a gun. Bottom line, crossgun is not archery equipment and belongs in the gun season. 

[ny hunter]

Doc is right this is never going to get answered.Me I don't care what the next guy uses to hunt. Not my bussiness as long as he is safe.

[Campwildwood]

Yes to all of the above. They are all hand drawn, hand held, BOWS that require all of the same form and mental disciplines and consistancies in order to be successfully and accurately shot. None of which applies to a crossbow. But then that is pretty obvious isn't it?

Actually, I already made that same point earlier in this very thread, but thank you for giving the opportunity to repeat it (again!). It is an important point that refutes the constant distortions when it comes to compounds and those people using them as a bogus precedent to jam crossbows into bow seasons.

A lot of people before us warned of this happening back when the compound acceptance arguments first took place. Who would have guessed it ......... it turns out they were right...lol. I wonder what kinds of things people of the future will try to cram into the bow season using crossbows as a precedent.  But then you don't really care about that do you?

Doc

So lets focus on the gadgets available for "bows". When will "bowhunters" start placing limits on what is/isn't proper add-on's to their bows and still feel their "bow" is no better than a xbow? Verticle bows have the same advantages as xbows (ie: triggers, scopes, string locking mechanisms, etc.)

You don't seem to care what products enhance the compound bow, nor does the NYB. So why care if xbow are allowed, especially since both "now" share the same attributes? The argument concerning xbows is based solely on semantics.

This debate may be pointless since xbows are gaining popularity among bowhunters, many of who are coming to their senses that their own beloved compounds are just as technically advanced as the xbow. Initial posts indicate xbows are now legal in gun season and I believe they will soon enough be legal in archery season. I and many other hunters (new and old) will now enjoy the option of another legal implement to hunt with. Thats what I care about, not the semantics, I'll leave that up to you....lol.

[ny hunter]

HERE HERE. Very nice.

[sits in trees]

Yes to all of the above. They are all hand drawn, hand held, BOWS that require all of the same form and mental disciplines and consistancies in order to be successfully and accurately shot. None of which applies to a crossbow. But then that is pretty obvious isn't it?

Actually, I already made that same point earlier in this very thread, but thank you for giving the opportunity to repeat it (again!). It is an important point that refutes the constant distortions when it comes to compounds and those people using them as a bogus precedent to jam crossbows into bow seasons.

A lot of people before us warned of this happening back when the compound acceptance arguments first took place. Who would have guessed it ......... it turns out they were right...lol. I wonder what kinds of things people of the future will try to cram into the bow season using crossbows as a precedent.  But then you don't really care about that do you?

Doc

i'm personally working on a crossbow design with 70 inch titanium limbs which can be pulled behind a pickup truck and placed on a mountain top which will group 4 inchs at 750 yds, i discussed the concept with some of the major crossbow manufactures like the PSE prez and he was all ears ;D  Once again, again, again, again DOC, ballistically or in any other way crossbows have no advantage over vertical bows in the hunting woods. lets play a game, you name an advantage a crossbow has over a vert bow and i mention a disadvantage..it's an old game but i'm willing

[sits in trees]

more and more the truth is coming out and people are seeing whats really behind this huge anti crossbows in archery season thing. it has nothing to do with advantages, diadvantages, or wether a weapon can be shouldered or hand held, or you can shoot it with you feet or behind your back with mirrors, cocked, uncocked, thats all nonsense and most people who can reason see that.

it's all about the remote possibility that allowing crossbows in archery will bring "more hunters into the woods during bow season", thats the plain truth!!

yes when you tell an anti crossbow person that allowing crossbows into archery season will increase hunter participation in NY the first thig they say is "no it won't".

when you tell them the woods will not be over run with hunters if we allow crossbows into archery season  then the usual response is it will bring "hordes of undesirables into bow season".

if you tell them it will help to reduce a bulging deer herd in NY they tell you "no it wont".

if you tell them it won't effect deer numbers they tell you yes it will???

actually lately the only thing i've been hearing from the NY bowhunters leadership is CROSSBOWS don't belong in ARCERY season period, and thats because they have run out of reasons people will actually listen to....

 

[sits in trees]

you now just stepping back for a minute here. i'm a NY archery hunter and have been for decades, i hunt my own property and i hunt nearby state land. these are my observations. when i pull my truck up to state land during bow season, it's a rare thing to see more than one or 2 other bowhunters in the woods or parked on the road for an area that incompasses 20 thousand acres or so??

as a matter or fact the number of other bowhunters i see during bow season can be pretty much counted on 2 hands and i have hunted 4 counties here in the hudson valley over the years.

we all know whats happening with hunter numbers in our state and we all know what the anti bowhunting groups out there wanna do to us, right? i think it's time for anyone who calls themselves a hunter and on the other hand says no crossbows in my woods better wake up already

[WNYBuckHunter]

The funny thing is, the legislators have already said it, by the number of responses to the issue that they receive, the overwhelming majority are in favor of corssbows. All these guys that keep saying no, are going to be severely disappointed WHEN (not if) crossbows become legal in NY. Face it guys, you will have the same choice as everyone else, to use a crossbow or not. I find it pretty funny that the same guys that oppose crossbows because of a perceived advantage dont say anything in opposition to rifles vs shotguns, where there is an absolute advantage.

[Larry]

the only advantage i can see is it may be a more stable platfrom then a bow

[Chevy]

I don't think crossguns will ever become legal during archery season. Legislators and the DEC have figured out that we have separate seasons for a reason and the crossgun is just being used as an impliment for the gun hunter to shift over into archery season. 

[SteveB]

I am sure when the crossgun is invented, they will take a look at it and decide what season to put it in. Until then, it is simply speculation. I imagine it will be powered by gunpowder like all guns are.