AR question

[covert]

.. if you aren't sure.. you shouldn't shoot.

This really even goes beyond AR's. If everyone followed this one simple rule there would be practically no hunting accidents of any kind.

Nobody will ever convince me that they were reliably able to count the points on the majority of bucks that they see in the woods ..... Nobody. Now it is time to be honest.

I can't say I could reliably count the points on the majority of bucks I've seen in the woods, but I can honestly say that I have been able to say whether there were three points/side on every buck that I have been close enough too to consider shooting. I'm not one for taking very long shots for one thing and for another, the area we hunt is pretty thick so long shot opportunities rarely come up anyway. And I say this as someone who has never been a rabid AR guy.

And in response to the deer drives, most of the bucks we've gotten in the Big Woods have come off of drives but are generally just moseying along. The way we do most of them it would be more appropriate to call them "nudges" though because we'll have one or two guys as drivers and they'll hunt along and cover 3 to 5 miles before they get to the watchers.

Edited September 18, 2012 by covert

[Pygmy]

I have hunted PA under ARs for the last few years..

I hunt ground that is either public land or private land that other hunters also have permission to hunt.

I hunt in the woods, rather than a tower blind overlooking big areas or food plots.. Most of the time I am hunting escape routes or pinch points where deer are moving to avoid other hunters. Most of the deer I see are moving right along, and often they are in sight, or offer a decent shot, for only a few seconds.

It is relatively easy to tell if a deer has antlers...It is often IMPOSSIBLE to determine if a buck has LEGAL antlers..

I see quite a few bucks I could KILL, but relatively few that I dare to shoot, since I can't tell if they are legal or not. Fortunately, doe permits are easy to get in the unit where I hunt, otherwise I wouldn't bother to spend the $$$ for the license.

[biggamefish]

Both of these deer were taken in the capital district area 10-20 minutes from albany no ar's. I have a 9 pointer that is bigger than both but I only have old school photos of it taken in the same area. It took dedication and hard work. Not just a five minutes sit and get what you want. Hunting is about the hunt and the reward when you worked really hard to accomplish something.

My problem with ar's Is I talk to people who think they are great idea want them and then go out and shoot a spike horn. WTH. If you believe in ar's then stick to your guns don't shoot the spike horn.

[burmjohn]

I still don't see how counting points is that difficult.

[biggamefish]

It will make a safer hunter supposedly.( I would think)

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I have hunted PA under ARs for the last few years..

I hunt ground that is either public land or private land that other hunters also have permission to hunt.

I hunt in the woods, rather than a tower blind overlooking big areas or food plots.. Most of the time I am hunting escape routes or pinch points where deer are moving to avoid other hunters. Most of the deer I see are moving right along, and often they are in sight, or offer a decent shot, for only a few seconds.

It is relatively easy to tell if a deer has antlers...It is often IMPOSSIBLE to determine if a buck has LEGAL antlers..

I see quite a few bucks I could KILL, but relatively few that I dare to shoot, since I can't tell if they are legal or not. Fortunately, doe permits are easy to get in the unit where I hunt, otherwise I wouldn't bother to spend the $$$ for the license.

I've hunted PA my entire life. The recent antler restrictions have only increased the quality of deer and I have never had a problem determing if it was legal. If its that small that you can't tell wait for something a little bigger. You won't see to many spikes with a 16" spread

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well safety isn't the biggest issue if your hunting party knows not to shoot the 2 legged deer dressed in orange

Agreed. To add though, you shouldnt shoot the ones dressed in camo either lol.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

people from the city? I guarantee you people who live outside the "city", as in "upstater's", are responsible for more illegally taken deer every year than any other group of people that you judge by the area they reside in....and you can bet the mortgage payment on that.

You will have to read the post again!!! I said take it if its good and leave it if it does not make the cut. Said nothing about illegally taken deer. If they were legal...They were taken... Hunt around Rochester and you can tell the city folk, They are the ones with the brown carharts on...

[Pygmy]

I've hunted PA my entire life. The recent antler restrictions have only increased the quality of deer and I have never had a problem determing if it was legal. If its that small that you can't tell wait for something a little bigger. You won't see to many spikes with a 16" spread

I'll just leave those "quality" deer for you experienced, skilled hunters who give a s**t about antlers, and continue to try to shoot a doe or two for my freezer.

[nyantler]

I'll just leave those "quality" deer for you experienced, skilled hunters who give a s**t about antlers, and continue to try to shoot a doe or two for my freezer.

Why not try to do a little of both? You're in the woods anyway... and I'm sure you aren't going to just let that big eight pointer walk by you if he happens along before a doe

[WNYBuckHunter]

You will have to read the post again!!! I said take it if its good and leave it if it does not make the cut. Said nothing about illegally taken deer. If they were legal...They were taken... Hunt around Rochester and you can tell the city folk, They are the ones with the brown carharts on...

Actually, the ONLY guys I know that hunt near Rochester and wear brown Carhartts are the non-urban and non-suburban guys. I hunt with a group that consists of guys that have never spent a day of their lives living in the city, they work on farms or are farmers, and not many of them wear much camo. Its mostly brown or tan Carhartts and blaze vests and hats. Every guy I know thats from the city or burbs wears camo and/or blaze.

Just sayin...

[Pygmy]

Why not try to do a little of both? You're in the woods anyway... and I'm sure you aren't going to just let that big eight pointer walk by you if he happens along before a doe

No problemo, Joe...If it's a legal animal and I have a tag, I'm a shootin' unless it's a fawn..I prefer not to shoot fawns..Not enough meat on 'em..

All I can say is that ReligiousCop must either hunt much more open areas than I do, or have much better eyes than I do. I see quite a few bucks that I know are sublegal..I see just as many that I just can't study the horns well enough to determine legality.. Once in a blue moon I see one that I KNOW is legal right off..

It just ain't that easy when they are moving through dense cover and you may have just one good opening for a shot..

[Guns&ReligionCop]

No problemo, Joe...If it's a legal animal and I have a tag, I'm a shootin' unless it's a fawn..I prefer not to shoot fawns..Not enough meat on 'em..

All I can say is that ReligiousCop must either hunt much more open areas than I do, or have much better eyes than I do. I see quite a few bucks that I know are sublegal..I see just as many that I just can't study the horns well enough to determine legality.. Once in a blue moon I see one that I KNOW is legal right off..

It just ain't that easy when they are moving through dense cover and you may have just one good opening for a shot..

I would say I have better eyes! Because if you're hunting dense cover like you claim then you're up close and personal and should have no problem making out a few points(Might have poked a hole in your own story). Possibly you don't like antler restriictions because you like brown its down hunting. Even doe hunting I just don't blast away for meat. I prefer the challenge of an old wise doe with a hooked nose and sagging belly. I enjoy hunting and the challenge of hunting older smarter animals. Anything else just seems like an excuse for someone that doens't like hunting as much as killing. You would possibly see more than once in blue moon bucks that you knew were legal if you didn't shoot the first thing that you saw!!

[steve863]

I would say I have better eyes! Because if you're hunting dense cover like you claim then you're up close and personal and should have no problem making out a few points(Might have poked a hole in your own story). Possibly you don't like antler restriictions because you like brown its down hunting. Even doe hunting I just don't blast away for meat. I prefer the challenge of an old wise doe with a hooked nose and sagging belly. I enjoy hunting and the challenge of hunting older smarter animals. Anything else just seems like an excuse for someone that doens't like hunting as much as killing. You would possibly see more than once in blue moon bucks that you knew were legal if you didn't shoot the first thing that you saw!!

Oh, and the mighty hunter you are! Should we all bow down to you, since we are the "brown its down" guys, while you think you are better because you hunt for horn? It's attitudes like yours that prove to the rest of us that AR's are nothing but a charade pushed by people who know jack$#!+!

Edited September 19, 2012 by steve863

[Doc]

I would say I have better eyes! Because if you're hunting dense cover like you claim then you're up close and personal and should have no problem making out a few points(Might have poked a hole in your own story). Possibly you don't like antler restriictions because you like brown its down hunting. Even doe hunting I just don't blast away for meat. I prefer the challenge of an old wise doe with a hooked nose and sagging belly. I enjoy hunting and the challenge of hunting older smarter animals. Anything else just seems like an excuse for someone that doens't like hunting as much as killing. You would possibly see more than once in blue moon bucks that you knew were legal if you didn't shoot the first thing that you saw!!

LOL .... Sure does get awful deep in here at times. I love that pronouncement that "I will shoot no deer before it's time. I am a super hunter and you are crap! I can see through leaves and around trees and have never made a mistake in my life. Deer just naturally stop and pose with their antlers in just the right position so I can count each individual tine on each antler. What is your problem? Why can't you be perfect like me?"

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Oh, and the mighty hunter you are! Should we all bow down to you, since we are the "brown its down" guys, while you think you are better because you hunt for horn? It's attitudes like yours that prove to the rest of us that AR's are nothing but a charade pushed by people who know jack$#!+!

ahhhh did I hurt your feelings because my opinion and the way I like to hunt is different then yours. I'm sorry that you feel so self conscious about the way that you hunt that you feel beneath someone that strives to do better and gets the more out of a hunt then you who embraces mediocrity. IF sarcasm is all you have to argue Antler Restrictions you are a PUTZ

[steve863]

ahhhh did I hurt your feelings because my opinion and the way I like to hunt is different then yours. I'm sorry that you feel so self conscious about the way that you hunt that you feel beneath someone that strives to do better and gets the more out of a hunt then you who embraces mediocrity. IF sarcasm is all you have to argue Antler Restrictions you are a PUTZ

Why don't you stop your BS? You were the first to put out the blanket statement that those who don't agree with AR's are "brown it's down" guys. Who the hell are you to think we are that just because we have issues with AR's and with those who are pushing them? You can continue to hunt for trophies to your hearts content without AR's while we who don't care for trophies now must change because of what YOU want. So who is stepping on who here?? Sure as hell ain't my side.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

LOL .... Sure does get awful deep in here at times. I love that pronouncement that "I will shoot no deer before it's time. I am a super hunter and you are crap! I can see through leaves and around trees and have never made a mistake in my life. Deer just naturally stop and pose with their antlers in just the right position so I can count each individual tine on each antler. What is your problem? Why can't you be perfect like me?"

Don't think I said any of that. a little over EXAGGERATION on your part. More agruing that his argument is BS and has nothing do with truth. If your summary of my quote is how it came out to you, you read it wrong

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Steve, he probably needs the AR's becasue he can't live up to the bar he has set for himself. He has defined success on the pursuit of antlers and probably can't deliver. SO he needs AR to fan the ego and make it easier to achieve the goal.He wan's them behind every tree, It has to be the case other wise he would want it as hard as possible to take a mature big horned buck and really prove his worth.

What he doesn't get is while havinghte desire to take a mature animal is great, many scale success of a season my much different standards than horn size.

[steve863]

If he thinks that some of us will just roll over and play dead on this topic, he has come to the wrong forum.

[Doc]

Don't think I said any of that. a little over EXAGGERATION on your part. More agruing that his argument is BS and has nothing do with truth. If your summary of my quote is how it came out to you, you read it wrong

You seem to be oblivious as to just how arrogant your message sounded. Maybe you had better read it again yourself.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I never have said anything about the size of the deer other than being legal and being able to identify what your shooting. Seems like you guys have your mind made up and don't like any other opinions and thats fine. Regardless of how any of us feel antler restrictions are spreading like wild fire and they will be in area near you soon. If you think about it there have always been now they are just a little more defined. Before it was deer, then deer with and without antlers, then deer without or less than 3" and deer with 3" or longer now its deer without and deer with at least 3 pts on one side. I don't think shooting something with only 3 pts on oneside makes me a huge trophy hunter but I do try to do the best I can with what I got. Shooting a spike buck would mean that much to me, I rather shoot a fat doe and let that little fella live a day or two longer or a kid that deer would mean the world to. If I only only cared about horn I wouldn't have 6 does tages for this fall

[nyantler]

No problemo, Joe...If it's a legal animal and I have a tag, I'm a shootin' unless it's a fawn..I prefer not to shoot fawns..Not enough meat on 'em..

All I can say is that ReligiousCop must either hunt much more open areas than I do, or have much better eyes than I do. I see quite a few bucks that I know are sublegal..I see just as many that I just can't study the horns well enough to determine legality.. Once in a blue moon I see one that I KNOW is legal right off..

It just ain't that easy when they are moving through dense cover and you may have just one good opening for a shot..

I agree.. it isn't easy when your moving through dense cover.. thats where responsiblity come into play... you don't know if it's legal until you have identified it as such... shooting at an animal that you are not positive of is not a mistake.. that's the only point I'm making. My point is that no hunter kills an animal by mistake... they kill it by choice... and making a choice and killing a deer that doesn't meet legal standards has nothing to do with the DEC trying to make hunting harder like Doc thinks... it has everything to do with a hunter not wanting to take the time to be certain he's taking a legal buck.. again that is the point I have been trying to make.

[nyantler]

Oh, and the mighty hunter you are! Should we all bow down to you, since we are the "brown its down" guys, while you think you are better because you hunt for horn? It's attitudes like yours that prove to the rest of us that AR's are nothing but a charade pushed by people who know jack$#!+!

I didn't read anything that said he thought he was better than you... you're the only one that says he is better... sounds like you want everyone to have your attitude about hunting... you want him to give you slack about the way you hunt, but you aren't willing to give him the same slack for the way he sees hunting... I don't recall him resorting to calling anyone a jackass either...

You seem to be oblivious as to just how arrogant your message sounded. Maybe you had better read it again yourself.

No more arrogant than your posts sound or Doewhackers posts, or any of our posts for that matter.. just another strong opinion. One that I don't entirely agree with.. but still his opinion...

[nyantler]

LOL .... Sure does get awful deep in here at times. I love that pronouncement that "I will shoot no deer before it's time. I am a super hunter and you are crap! I can see through leaves and around trees and have never made a mistake in my life. Deer just naturally stop and pose with their antlers in just the right position so I can count each individual tine on each antler. What is your problem? Why can't you be perfect like me?"

I didn't read any of that.. sounds a little like grade school to me.