AR question

[Doewhacker]

I realize that. I read the same reports. I just responding based on the statistics the DEC gave me from the checks and aging they do

I know you know, but when you qouted me it looked like I said it...I aint that smart. lol

[Doewhacker]

Once manbearpig causes a new ice age you'll have to retrain him to point on baby seals.

haha YES!

[Meat Hunter]

Right its up 258%..don't argue with me ask the DEC

http://www.dec.ny.go...arsummary11.pdf

Just look at page 3 of the report it shows both graphics and numbers that back up what I am said with regard to the 3.5 year old harvest being way up- like 3 times higher with ARs

I do often get the idea that the ANTI AR folks are really more interested in the argument than in deer hunting or the facts. It’s all about the fight. There must be some other issue that needs fighting and arguing.

Nice dog

- Do you wear a sports coat and tie when hunting over the dog?

[burmjohn]

I know you know, but when you qouted me it looked like I said it...I aint that smart. lol

whoops.

[burmjohn]

WMU 3H Stats - http://huntingny.com/wmu_3h - if you hover over w/your mouse it should show you the %.

Data:

[Meat Hunter]

john you should see the 3H PICs that folks have. I have never seen such nice bucks. Are you hunting monday?

[burmjohn]

john you should see the 3H PICs that folks have. I have never seen such nice bucks. Are you hunting monday?

I know whats out there, I check the local butcher when I'm up there. Unfortunately I'm not one of the lucky ones yet.

Heading up Wed night to hunt through Sunday, Monday didn't make sense for me.

[Doewhacker]

Just look at page 3 of the report it shows both graphics and numbers that back up what I am said with regard to the 3.5 year old harvest being way up- like 3 times higher with ARs

I do often get the idea that the ANTI AR folks are really more interested in the argument than in deer hunting or the facts. It’s all about the fight. There must be some other issue that needs fighting and arguing.

Nice dog

- Do you wear a sports coat and tie when hunting over the dog?

nice like "fact". Its not hard to be "way up" when you start at a few and increase to a few more.

Why on earth would I wear a sports coat and tie? I don't live in the English country side and its not 50 years ago.

[Meat Hunter]

Such a fancy dog

[Meat Hunter]

john take some pics at the butcher

[Guns&ReligionCop]

Love or hate AR's you do see more deer with bigger horns after a few years and don't lie everyone likes deer with biggers horns even meat hunters.

[steve863]

Dang, I thought this thread was dead!

Got 16 years worth of spikes in a small box pre AR and 6 years of racked bucks since ARs got started. It is really a no brainier but I understand how folks can be apprehensive and concerned. I got two great ways to do the euro mounts which is what I have been doing since we got ARs.

Like Culver challenged you dipsticks in an earlier post, why don't you just come out and say that big antlers are what you guys want and stop with all your biological BS arguments, when the DEC has said over and over again that there is NO biological need for them. Your biological arguments have absolutely NO validity or merit in NYS since the DEC has made it's statement very clear. They have also stated that the ONLY reason AR's have been implemented is because it's become a "social" issue for some hunters. Why do you guys like to conveniently skip over this point? And all that this "social" issue is, is that some hunters are stuck up on big antlers, and that is ALL that there is to this whether you guys are man enough to admit it or not. So like you stated above, you'd rather have a box of larger antlers, compared to a box of spike horns? Big flipping deal. Like anyone honestly cares, other than those who are obsessed with this kind of stuff. Just tell us that you want big horns and AR's will make it easier for you and be done with it. Please spare us of all the other BS arguments. Won't be long before you dudes will be telling us that AR's also cure cancer in humans. Why couldn't it? You have used every other BS argument under the sun already, other than the real one, so you might as well claim that too!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

THe other group is the majority of hunters in NY, in all parts of NY. Cool that you understand that they work.

You mean the same majority that lists a very important desire to have a choic in the buck they take (from the same survey). But if the majority of hunters are so for this then why is it needed?Are the ones for it lacking the ability to make their own choice and practice it without a regulation?

[WNYBuckHunter]

I find it funny that Meat Hunter has been allowed to enjoy shooting "16 years worth of spikes", but now that hes on to a higher level of standards, he wants to limit EVERYONE to his new standard. Hypocricy doesnt get much more blatant than that IMO.

[jjb4900]

I never once shot a spike or 4pt and thought to myself..."Boy, I wish he was bigger"

[burmjohn]

Like Culver challenged you dipsticks in an earlier post, why don't you just come out and say that big antlers are what you guys want and stop with all your biological BS arguments, when the DEC has said over and over again that there is NO biological need for them. Your biological arguments have absolutely NO validity or merit in NYS since the DEC has made it's statement very clear. They have also stated that the ONLY reason AR's have been implemented is because it's become a "social" issue for some hunters. Why do you guys like to conveniently skip over this point? And all that this "social" issue is, is that some hunters are stuck up on big antlers, and that is ALL that there is to this whether you guys are man enough to admit it or not. So like you stated above, you'd rather have a box of larger antlers, compared to a box of spike horns? Big flipping deal. Like anyone honestly cares, other than those who are obsessed with this kind of stuff. Just tell us that you want big horns and AR's will make it easier for you and be done with it. Please spare us of all the other BS arguments. Won't be long before you dudes will be telling us that AR's also cure cancer in humans. Why couldn't it? You have used every other BS argument under the sun already, other than the real one, so you might as well claim that too!

The DEC is wrong period. Since when does anyone in the US thing everything the gov't said or does is correct and right. The same can be said about those against AR's, the same BS over and over. If you don't agree with it that's fine, stop putting words in other peoples mouths.

-------------------

Its not just a social issue.

Its not just about bigger horns (which seems to be 90% of the focus point of those against AR's)

AR's doesn't make it "easier" for me or anyone else in the area I hunt. What it did do is bring the age level of the deer herd in the area back up closer to where it should be and where it is in other parts of the state.

Not all area's of the state would benefit from the AR's. Clearly there are area's of the state where the deer herd and age structures are just fine.

I have yet to meet a person in 3H that is against AR's, it seems most (not all) of those that oppose AR's are not even in an AR area and have no experience and knowledge of those area's.

[Doewhacker]

If it were effective you would see more 3.5 and up taken in the AR units, in reality it is not much different than areas outside of AR areas. It saves 1.5's for slaughter until they are 2.5, thats all.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I find it funny that Meat Hunter has been allowed to enjoy shooting "16 years worth of spikes", but now that hes on to a higher level of standards, he wants to limit EVERYONE to his new standard. Hypocricy doesnt get much more blatant than that IMO.

I signed in just to "Like" this. Carry on..

[steve863]

If it were effective you would see more 3.5 and up taken in the AR units, in reality it is not much different than areas outside of AR areas. It saves 1.5's for slaughter until they are 2.5, thats all.

Of course killing that 2.5 year old they might have a bit more horn to show off to their buddies. And then they say that it's "not just about bigger horns". What a crock.

[steve863]

The DEC is wrong period. Since when does anyone in the US thing everything the gov't said or does is correct and right. The same can be said about those against AR's, the same BS over and over. If you don't agree with it that's fine, stop putting words in other peoples mouths.

No the government isn't always right, but why should we think you are right here? Sure the DEC isn't always right. Implementing AR's alone shows how dumb and bamboozled the DEC could be. Bottom line is that the DEC wants hunters to kill deer in order to control the population. If you think they give a rats a$$ about the age structure of the deer that remain, you are kidding yourself. Only trophy obsessed people like yourself do, then you want to claim that the DEC is wrong. They may not be right in everything they do, but at least they aren't BS'ing us with misinformation on this topic. What they've told us is that they basically adopted this rule because of the cry babies who kept asking for AR's like you fellas here. That is pretty much it. They don't pretend that there is a biological benefit to it like you guys do, thus I give them some credit for it. Meanwhile you guys can continue beating around the bush, while never admitting the truth.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Its not just about bigger horns (which seems to be 90% of the focus point of those against AR's)

AR's doesn't make it "easier" for me or anyone else in the area I hunt. What it did do is bring the age level of the deer herd in the area back up closer to where it should be and where it is in other parts of the state.

Not all area's of the state would benefit from the AR's. Clearly there are area's of the state where the deer herd and age structures are just fine.

I have yet to meet a person in 3H that is against AR's, it seems most (not all) of those that oppose AR's are not even in an AR area and have no experience and knowledge of those area's.

Actually I have seen many no in support of AR call the supporters out for not admitting any part of AR support IS about the horns. It seems like taboo in a support commment to simply say " I want to shoot bigger racks"

John, saying it doesn't make taking a bigger buck easier is just bull $shit. be definition it is easier. If you say the numbers taken have gone up it is easier unless the hunters in teh areas have taken a magic hunting knowledge pill or attended hunter 101 training. the hunters haven't changed and the take went up...IT GOT EASIER!!. If there are more of them just the odds make it easier. During the rut an dthe boys are just thinking about the girls , the likelihood that even an inexperienced hunter will have one that strolls by goes up with higher numbers...becasue IT IS EASIER. whether you want to admit it or not the mature deer have aways been in these areas, just not in the numbers since AR. more are taken becasue it ...you guessed it......IT GOT EASIER!!

[burmjohn]

No the government isn't always right, but why should we think you are right here? Sure the DEC isn't always right. Implementing AR's alone shows how dumb and bamboozled the DEC could be. Bottom line is that the DEC wants hunters to kill deer in order to control the population. If you think they give a rats a$$ about the age structure of the deer that remain, you are kidding yourself. Only trophy obsessed people like yourself do, then you want to claim that the DEC is wrong. They may not be right in everything they do, but at least they aren't BS'ing us with misinformation on this topic. What they've told us is that they basically adopted this rule because of the cry babies who kept asking for AR's like you fellas here. That is pretty much it. They don't pretend that there is a biological benefit to it like you guys do, thus I give them some credit for it. Meanwhile you guys can continue beating around the bush, while never admitting the truth.

Wow again, stop putting words in peoples mouths you look like a fool. I'm not sitting here calling you a spike killer or brown its downer. Ridiculous.

You clearly do not want AR's that's fine, I respect that. You start spewing off BS and putting words in my mouth and others that support AR thats a different story. You crossed the line.

[steve863]

Wow again, stop putting words in peoples mouths you look like a fool. I'm not sitting here calling you a spike killer or brown its downer. Ridiculous.

And what words am I putting into whose mouth?? Prove to us that the DEC implemented AR's for any of the reason you guys claim that AR's are needed for? You can't. You guys cried to the DEC that you don't see big bucks and they gave you AR's. Not much more to it than that, really.

[burmjohn]

Actually I have seen many no in support of AR call the supporters out for not admitting any part of AR support IS about the horns. It seems like taboo in a support commment to simply say " I want to shoot bigger racks"

Thats because its not just about "bigger racks", and that is what those who oppose it like to focus on.

John, saying it doesn't make taking a bigger buck easier is just bull $shit. be definition it is easier. If you say the numbers taken have gone up it is easier unless the hunters in teh areas have taken a magic hunting knowledge pill or attended hunter 101 training. the hunters haven't changed and the take went up...IT GOT EASIER!!. If there are more of them just the odds make it easier. During the rut an dthe boys are just thinking about the girls , the likelihood that even an inexperienced hunter will have one that strolls by goes up with higher numbers...becasue IT IS EASIER. whether you want to admit it or not the mature deer have aways been in these areas, just not in the numbers since AR. more are taken becasue it ...you guessed it......IT GOT EASIER!!

Ok in the area I hunted the opportunity to get for a 3.5 / 3.5+ was unheard of. Now there that chance, so I guess you can say it got easier because the opportunity just didn't exist before. I'm speaking for MY AREA, I'm not speaking for others. So I'll guess I'll gave to agree with you on this one other then what you said re: "mature deer have aways been in these areas". The age structure was seriously out of wack and when you have 20+ hunters over 10 years in the same area not seeing anything other then 1.5's and 2.5's there is a problem.

[burmjohn]

And what words am I putting into whose mouth?? Prove to us that the DEC implemented AR's for any of the reason you guys claim that AR's are needed for? You can't. You guys cried to the DEC that you don't see big bucks and they gave you AR's. Not much more to it than that, really.

Everyone knows why the DEC implemented it, why keep rehashing something that is known already, it brings nothing to the table. I don't care why the DEC put it there, they are biased. They will never take credit for anything positive out of this because its something THEY did not come up with.

I'm glad its there for all the reasons I already stated. There is a lot more to it then the FUD you continue to spread.

"The pilot antler restriction (AR) program was initiated in 2005 in WMUs 3C and 3J and in WMUs 3H and 3K in 2006 based upon strong local support among hunters."