Another Mass shooting this time in Texas

[ApexerER]

I'm heading to @Buckmaster7600 when the shit hits the fan!! lol

[rachunter]

I hate getting into these debates, but for the last few days I’ve been trying to think of a reason a law abiding citizen would need to own body armor. Armageddon is the only thing I can think of. Hopefully I’m not around for it.


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[left field]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I guess all those killing in Chicago, NY, LA and the rest of those gang kingdoms are being done by the Boy Scouts.  And I'm sure every gang killer has been caught and convicted for every killing.  Convicts always admit to everyone they killed too.  Silly me.  I guess the cops on the front lines are full of crap and don't know anything about the gangs in their area.

But no one argued that. Instead of admitting, "yeah, maybe I was off/wrong/uninformed," you move the goalpost. And then you throw out a weak generalized "appeal to authority" while discounting an actual authority who sounds like the most experienced here with regards to gangs.

 

[ApexerER]

1 minute ago, rachunter said:

I hate getting into these debates, but for the last few days I’ve been trying to think of a reason a law abiding citizen would need to own body armor. Armageddon is the only thing I can think of. Hopefully I’m not around for it.


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Agreed, but we are American's and should have the right to prepare for Armageddon any way we see fit or for whatever our own Armageddon is. 

Do you think that the ranchers getting run over by illegals should have access to body armor if they so desire it?  I can't imagine the Armageddon they are dealing with at the moment....

If BLM or Antifa decided to riot in your town and are burning and luting anything and everything and you had body armor in your closet would you put it on? 

What will the world look like if the dollar collapses? We are well on our way, its the major cause of inflation...

What will happen if the baby formula shortage becomes a food shortage for everyone and your neighbor wants what is in your pantry? 

What is the demoralization of the Police going to look like in another 4 or 5 years. They are already underfunded and afraid to be proactive and i don't blame them. Who in their right mind wants to be a LEO with the disrespect they get these days and every single little thing scrutinized. Look at the response time for the school shooting, what is their response time going to be with the path we are headed down? 

How many terrorists have we let slip through our open border? What are they planning? What if a dirty bomb goes off and we are thrown into chaos.....

Maybe we will never have to worry about any of these things, maybe we will. I hope we don't but if the past couple years have shown us anything, its that we should be prepared for anything and everything....I live 5 minutes from Saratoga. In the last 5 years, maybe a little more that beautiful little city that i frequented often has fallen off a cliff with the wokeness of the leaders. The police stand down, homeless encampments in the parking garage, BLM takeovers of the streets a couple times a year. Illegals running all over the place.  This is a tiny little tourist town in upstate NY.....If it can come here, it can be anywhere!

[ncountry]

16 minutes ago, rachunter said:

I hate getting into these debates, but for the last few days I’ve been trying to think of a reason a law abiding citizen would need to own body armor. Armageddon is the only thing I can think of. Hopefully I’m not around for it.


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      Sometimes when thinking about these things one needs to step back and look at the situation objectively.

What are the odds of someone using body army in a bad act? Seems like taking  away someone's completely harmless method of protecting themselves or their loved ones if they so choose just because a handful of nutjobs out of the millions living in this country is foolish to put it politely.

[ApexerER]

They are making Body armor backpacks for kids...This has been discussed before on here. Scary you even have to think of that as an option, but should they be outlawed?

[Buckmaster7600]

Agreed, but we are American's and should have the right to prepare for Armageddon any way we see fit or for whatever our own Armageddon is. 
Do you think that the ranchers getting run over by illegals should have access to body armor if they so desire it?  I can't imagine the Armageddon they are dealing with at the moment....
If BLM or Antifa decided to riot in your town and are burning and luting anything and everything and you had body armor in your closet would you put it on? 
What will the world look like if the dollar collapses? We are well on our way, its the major cause of inflation...
What will happen if the baby formula shortage becomes a food shortage for everyone and your neighbor wants what is in your pantry? 
What is the demoralization of the Police going to look like in another 4 or 5 years. They are already underfunded and afraid to be proactive and i don't blame them. Who in their right mind wants to be a LEO with the disrespect they get these days and every single little thing scrutinized. Look at the response time for the school shooting, what is their response time going to be with the path we are headed down? 
How many terrorists have we let slip through our open border? What are they planning? What if a dirty bomb goes off and we are thrown into chaos.....
Maybe we will never have to worry about any of these things, maybe we will. I hope we don't but if the past couple years have shown us anything, its that we should be prepared for anything and everything....I live 5 minutes from Saratoga. In the last 5 years, maybe a little more that beautiful little city that i frequented often has fallen off a cliff with the wokeness of the leaders. The police stand down, homeless encampments in the parking garage, BLM takeovers of the streets a couple times a year. Illegals running all over the place.  This is a tiny little tourist town in upstate NY.....If it can come here, it can be anywhere!

We were taking about Saratoga at work the other night. General consensus is the city is gone and will never come back!

I won’t even go there anymore. Last summer I was eating sushi on the balcony and after the gang activity I watched I told my then girlfriend and daughter that I will never step foot in down town Saratoga again. This from a guy that used to be downtown 1 or 2 nights a week.


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[ApexerER]

1 minute ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

We were taking about Saratoga at work the other night. General consensus is the city is gone and will never come back!

I won’t even go there anymore. Last summer I was eating sushi on the balcony and after the gang activity I watched I told my then girlfriend and daughter that I will never step foot in down town Saratoga again. This from a guy that used to be downtown 1 or 2 nights a week.


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Agreed, very sad....your just on the opposite side of Saratoga from me....I used to go there all the time. My 17 year old daughter is working at Druthers and i really worry about her. Just got her pepper spray a couple weeks ago for walking too and from her car....Wish she could carry something better.....

[GreeneHunter]

17 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Agreed, very sad....your just on the opposite side of Saratoga from me....I used to go there all the time. My 17 year old daughter is working at Druthers and i really worry about her. Just got her pepper spray a couple weeks ago for walking too and from her car....Wish she could carry something better.....

Get the pepper spray from Walmart ? Just curious !

[Nomad]

2 hours ago, rachunter said:

I understand the fire and EMS wearing them and they should be issued., but are we really going to start wearing body armor to go shopping?
I know you’ve said your staying there because your kids don’t want to leave, but is it really someplace they/you want to raise a family. I’m just assuming there heading in that route. It sounds like a sh!thole to bring up a family.I can’t even imagine what the school system is like or a local park.


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I’m in the burbs, with ducks deer and rabbits in my yard ,  with an additional  116 acres in the country . Both kids are on their own a RN here  who owns a home in a suburb and a CPA in Buffalo . The issue is the their  proximity to the city as well as working in it , and one living in Buffalo proper . Also the cities problems will / are bleeding out of city lines .

I have no immediate plans to buy any , although I did get some sweet .357 today .

[ApexerER]

6 minutes ago, GreeneHunter said:

Get the pepper spray from Walmart ? Just curious !

idk, a friend of mine got it for her....

[9jNYstarkOH]

1 hour ago, rachunter said:

I hate getting into these debates, but for the last few days I’ve been trying to think of a reason a law abiding citizen would need to own body armor. Armageddon is the only thing I can think of. Hopefully I’m not around for it.


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A lot of live fire gun training course require body armor Also the riots last year was a pretty good examples of the police not keeping citizens safe. I was thinking of getting the lite weight armor for my kids backpacks. Why restrict my ability to help keep my kids safe. Do you think criminals are going to stop at the body armor law and say, you know what I will break all the other laws but not this one.

https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/backpack-armor-spartan-armor-systems-flex-fused-core-iiia-soft-armor-panel-11-x-14/

[Waterfowler]

Just to be clear, most body armor does NOT stop a rifle round. Right through both sides like nothing 

[rachunter]

I’m in the burbs, with ducks deer and rabbits in my yard ,  with an additional  116 acres in the country . Both kids are on their own a RN here  who owns a home in a suburb and a CPA in Buffalo . The issue is the their  proximity to the city as well as working in it , and one living in Buffalo proper . Also the cities problems will / are bleeding out of city lines .
I have no immediate plans to buy any , although I did get some sweet .357 today .

Well I wish you and the family the best of luck there. Just doesn’t sound like a good environment to raise a family.
I’ve been shooting my .357 all morning while stacking firewood. I can’t get any consistence past 30yrds.


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[rachunter]

A lot of live fire gun training course require body armor Also the riots last year was a pretty good examples of the police not keeping citizens safe. I was thinking of getting the lite weight armor for my kids backpacks. Why restrict my ability to help keep my kids safe. Do you think criminals are going to stop at the body armor law and say, you know what I will break all the other laws but not this one.
https://www.spartanarmorsystems.com/backpack-armor-spartan-armor-systems-flex-fused-core-iiia-soft-armor-panel-11-x-14/

I’m not telling anyone not to protect themselves or loved ones. No criminals and mental patient’s will never follow a law.


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[rachunter]

If there was an armed teacher in that shooting does anyone think they could’ve shot and killed that kid with his body armor . The security/ex cop in buffalo didn’t/couldn’t.


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[Buckmaster7600]

If there was an armed teacher in that shooting does anyone think they could’ve shot and killed that kid with his body armor . The security/ex cop in buffalo didn’t/couldn’t.


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Absolutely, there’s a reason why any firearms instructor worth a crap teaches shooting at the pelvic girdle. Obviously center mass is a better aim point but not always an option. Pelvic girdle is more that 2x’s bigger than a head.


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[left field]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I guess all those killing in Chicago, NY, LA and the rest of those gang kingdoms are being done by the Boy Scouts.  And I'm sure every gang killer has been caught and convicted for every killing.  Convicts always admit to everyone they killed too.  Silly me.  I guess the cops on the front lines are full of crap and don't know anything about the gangs in their area.

But no one argued that. Instead of admitting, "yeah, maybe I was off/wrong/uninformed," you move the goalpost. And then you throw out a weak generalized "appeal to authority" while discounting an actual authority who sounds like the most experienced here with regards to gangs.

 

[ApexerER]

6 minutes ago, rachunter said:

If there was an armed teacher in that shooting does anyone think they could’ve shot and killed that kid with his body armor . The security/ex cop in buffalo didn’t/couldn’t.


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While body armor stops a handgun round it still can't feel good to take a 9mm or .45 round to center mass. Would it have stopped him??  We will never know.....   Was it confirmed that the security officer hit the shooter with body armor in Buffalo or only that they exchanged fire?  A hand gun is no match for a person armed with a rifle, like you said, even with a 357  you can't hold a group past 30 yds and that isn't in a panic situation....Now, having said that,  I would rather have a handgun against a rifle than nothing at all. At least a teacher would have another option other than begging and trying to shield kids with his/her body.....

I would bet that very few if any of us could hit center mass on a target the distance of a typical school hallway which is much farther than 30 yds at my daughters school with any handgun we would daily carry. But again, i would rather have that than nothing. 

I have no idea what the answer is......It isn't gun control, or new laws, that i am sure of....

I mentioned i was at a band concert last week for a friend daughter that is 10. Hundreds of people on the football field and 3 officers there. Two sheriffs and a state trooper. While i am glad they were there, if a shooter with a rifle walked onto the football field and started shooting, or started shooting from the woods, what are those 3 LEO's going to do without a rifle on hand? The shooter can hit quarters or half dollars at those distances and the LEO's would be lucky to hit the broad side of a barn with a 9mm at 100 plus yards....

Wish i had the answers.....The only one i can come up with, is get rid of the evil before it comes out of someone....We always see all the red flags after the fact....that should have been obvious....

[rachunter]

While body armor stops a handgun round it still can't feel good to take a 9mm or .45 round to center mass. Would it have stopped him??  We will never know.....   Was it confirmed that the security officer hit the shooter with body armor in Buffalo or only that they exchanged fire?  A hand gun is no match for a person armed with a rifle, like you said, even with a 357  you can't hold a group past 30 yds and that isn't in a panic situation....Now, having said that,  I would rather have a handgun against a rifle than nothing at all. At least a teacher would have another option other than begging and trying to shield kids with his/her body.....
I would bet that very few if any of us could hit center mass on a target the distance of a typical school hallway which is much farther than 30 yds at my daughters school with any handgun we would daily carry. But again, i would rather have that than nothing. 
I have no idea what the answer is......It isn't gun control, or new laws, that i am sure of....
I mentioned i was at a band concert last week for a friend daughter that is 10. Hundreds of people on the football field and 3 officers there. Two sheriffs and a state trooper. While i am glad they were there, if a shooter with a rifle walked onto the football field and started shooting, or started shooting from the woods, what are those 3 LEO's going to do without a rifle on hand? The shooter can hit quarters or half dollars at those distances and the LEO's would be lucky to hit the broad side of a barn with a 9mm at 100 plus yards....
Wish i had the answers.....The only one i can come up with, is get rid of the evil before it comes out of someone....We always see all the red flags after the fact....that should have been obvious....

I agree it’s a mental health issue. I’m not for any new gun laws they don’t enforce the one we have already or stop criminals or human defects. Your right I don’t know the answer ether,but something needs to be done a fast. You can’t put the blame totally on the left the right had control and did nothing ether.
It just seemed wrong that someone could go and buy two weapons ammo and body armor and no one should question it. If he indeed bought it all at once.


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[left field]

The armed teacher argument always confuses me. Police have no legal obligation to protect you as has been decided by the SC but now we're considering arming teachers and giving them a one/two/three day course on how to take out a bad guy? Will we force them to act?

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

The armed teacher argument always confuses me. Police have no legal obligation to protect you as has been decided by the SC but now we're considering arming teachers and giving them a one/two/three day course on how to take out a bad guy? Will we force them to act?
 
 

It shouldn’t be mandatory for them to be armed and there obviously wouldn’t be no obligation for them to act if they are but being armed should certainly be an option for them!


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[Nomad]

1 hour ago, rachunter said:

Well I wish you and the family the best of luck there. Just doesn’t sound like a good environment to raise a family.
I’ve been shooting my .357 all morning while stacking firewood. I can’t get any consistence past 30yrds.


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Once again ,I’m in the suburbs , our biggest issue is deer eating our landscaping . Very good schools , and healthcare , I can have my boat in Lake Ontario in five minutes from my driveway . It’s a wonderful place to raise kids , we’re NOT in the city .
 

But if Biden’s build back better stays on the same path , it may very well be one giant sh!t sandwich for us all in a couple years . I realize few here like,to be prepared,and think ahead , it’s just how we roll at the compound .

Pool Time !

edit:

your only out gunned I’d you miss…

https://www.propper.com/blog/armor-levels-which-armor-stop-which-rounds

Edited May 31, 2022 by Nomad

[Nomad]

1 hour ago, ApexerER said:

idk, a friend of mine got it for her....

The small key chain stuff can be sold by gun shops and pharmacies of all places . I’d go for,pepper gel and a much larger size , either a “ can “ or “ half can “ size . Buy a few so one cam practice .

Buy it on vacation out of state  or if you spend enough time looking online you will at one point find someone who’ll ship it to you in NYS .

Sabre Red is a proven one I’ve heard 

[BizCT]

UDAP bear spray is no joke.