Successful in NY? That's saying something...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Hey! Someone got it!

1 buck per season,Shorter seasons and no guns for the rut!

[growalot]

NY's buck harvest consists of 54% 1.5 year old bucks. If we could get that to 40% you would see a difference in the age structure in MOST parts of the state.

I have to ask were do these numbers come from? I ask because I call in my deer every year and what is asked is the # of points on my deer...not how old it is...now I've seen many 1.5 yr old 8pts and many 2.5 yr old 6pts...any several 2.5 year old 4pts...so please with out deer checks where are the #'s coming from?

[SteveB]

I wouldn't shoot a spike or 4 pt for example. But wouldn't pass on a nice 6 or 8 either was basically what I was meaning.

How is shooting a 1.5 spike or 4 pt ANY DIFFERENT from shooting a 1.5 6 to 8 pt?

[Doc]

I have to ask were do these numbers come from? I ask because I call in my deer every year and what is asked is the # of points on my deer...not how old it is...now I've seen many 1.5 yr old 8pts and many 2.5 yr old 6pts...any several 2.5 year old 4pts...so please with out deer checks where are the #'s coming from?

Excellent question ... lol. I'm sure they have some super magical computer model that is fed by a bunch of COs and biologists (who should really be doing something more productive) running from deer processors to taxidermists to hunter's camps aging a few deer. That's how the reporting rate is done. That seems to be the answer to all those questions where real hunter input is not available. Throw it in a computer and let the program make up the answer.

[boo711]

Steve b, if I see a spike or 4 pt in the woods I am going to let it go. But if I see a nice 6 or a nice 8, I am not going to try and guess what year it is. Would even pass on a small 6. But a NICE 6 I am going to shoot. And definately going to shoot the 8. I didn't have to worry about that this year. Only saw 5 does all season. Everything else had horns just nothing in range all season. Bow or gun. Just glad people in my huntinggroup got something

[SteveB]

Not saying anything wrong with whatever you do - only that it makes no real difference.

Personally, if I am going to have a bar set for myself, it is one that makes a real difference.

[phade]

Phade, Ohio, pa and most otherstate the game is managed by biologists , sorry to say here its not. How about a 6 day gun season...will never happen here, or legnthining the season because not enough does were harvested. ny does not have mandatory checkstations(dec personal would want them but they are controlled by politicians who say no more jobs) you can't manage something when your hands are tied... better managed yes due to fact most are under seperate game commissions. better deer no... lots of big bucks are taken in ny every year and never measured or seen except by a few locals that know the guy that shot it. i know my neighbor is one of them, look at his racks and most people would think he got them out west somewhere, he shoots the biggest he can for meat, if it has 21 points so be it, rack get cut off and thrown in a bushel basket, 140 in plus deer in a basket... never to be seen but by a few.

Ohio's agency is bound too, to a degree and fed by politcal dollars. The DNR and DEC are pretty much bound by the same limitations I believe when it comes to establishing seasons/implements/etc. as some things can be done autonomously and some legislatively. There may be minor differences, but the point being, is that they are light years ahead, even with their issues, over NY, with similar hunting pressure per sq/mi. They also do not have mandatory check stations - why? Because they too are bound by the "no more jobs" issue.

I do agree personnel/finances wise that the DEC is hampered, but not by #s...the caliber of DNR personnel are unreal. I've had enough exchanges with their unit managers (aka regional directors) to know that they KNOW what they are talking about from beyond an admin POV. Their lead biologist (their version of Hurst) responds to emails from regular hunters within short periods of time with thought-out responses. I mean, within 24 hours! That's crazy.

As far as better deer? That's such a loosely defined category. The arguement that there is a guy with a basket full of big bucks is a non-point. The same guy is there in Ohio. As is the same guy in IL, IN, KY, Iowa, etc. There's nothing about a guy in NY that acts different in any other state, really. I don't know why people cannot seem to understand that on many levels. It's not a variable to consider. I do know one thing, if I could have my pick of a property in Ohio or NY for a week of hunting of my choosing, I'm choosing Ohio every single time, based on the current conditions. NY has potential, but being successful in this climate is something to be proud of.

[phade]

Excellent question ... lol. I'm sure they have some super magical computer model that is fed by a bunch of COs and biologists (who should really be doing something more productive) running from deer processors to taxidermists to hunter's camps aging a few deer. That's how the reporting rate is done. That seems to be the answer to all those questions where real hunter input is not available. Throw it in a computer and let the program make up the answer.

This is likely the case. I always thought it would be poor practice, but in the past few years, I moved into a new role within my company and the degree of accuracy with analytics today is astounding. I agree that a mandatory check station system would be best, but analytics based on a small sampel from qualified parties is probably the next best thing. I think more states do this than the check station route as its a diminishing return based on the value of gain.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Steve b, if I see a spike or 4 pt in the woods I am going to let it go. But if I see a nice 6 or a nice 8, I am not going to try and guess what year it is. Would even pass on a small 6. But a NICE 6 I am going to shoot. And definately going to shoot the 8. I didn't have to worry about that this year. Only saw 5 does all season. Everything else had horns just nothing in range all season. Bow or gun. Just glad people in my huntinggroup got something

Boo...what area of the state do you hunt?

[phade]

I think he is region 8 if I remember his buck harvest post correctly. Maybe Genesee County?

[boo711]

Most of my bow hunting and some gun hunting is done behind my uncles house in baldwinsville. Majority of my gun hunting is done in Penn yan.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Not sure about the Baldwinville area but the Penn yan area has some great deer in it. I know every property is different but down there is is not uncommon to see a 6 or 8 point that is a 1.5 year old.

[phade]

Not sure about the Baldwinville area but the Penn yan area has some great deer in it. I know every property is different but down there is is not uncommon to see a 6 or 8 point that is a 1.5 year old.

PY has giants. That WMU is almost always a top buck producing area.

[boo711]

We have had some good luck last few years in penn yan. An 8 opening day this year, an 8 opening & 2nd day of season last year and a 9 pointer opening day year before that. And a good mix of does in there. I personally have been hunting there for 26 years, my family for probably close to 40. Bucks have gotten bigger last few years. Always seemed to be a lot of small basket racks or odd racks. Like an 8 pointer with 5 pts on one side & 3 on the other. Never anything real huge years ago even for other hunters we came across. Food sources haven't changed either primarily grapes so kind of odd. Acorn crops could have something to do with it. Lots of oaks down there

[dbHunterNY]

If the QDMA ever kicks in here, I'll be happy, because then I wouldn't need to relocate to Athens, GA for a job offer, ha.

I suspect you mean QDM?

No I meant QDMA. I'm aware QDM stands for quality deer management, QDMA stands for ..... association. You shouldn't need to be in Bogart, GA to work for the QDMA. If the QDMA or even some other organization were to be more pronounced here, there'd be better structure and knowledge at hand. I'm aware there's a handful of branches here in NY. You just don't hear of enough about QDMA stuff going on around here. Not their fault. It's just not whole heartedly accepted around here. If it had more exposure around here people willing to learn would hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak, and others who didn't go out of there way would be still exposed to it. Too many people around here practice their own version of "QDM" that really has little merit and factual evidence behind what's practiced.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

No I meant QDMA. I'm aware QDM stands for quality deer management, QDMA stands for ..... association. You shouldn't need to be in Bogart, GA to work for the QDMA. If the QDMA or even some other organization were to be more pronounced here, there'd be better structure and knowledge at hand. I'm aware there's a handful of branches here in NY. You just don't hear of enough about QDMA stuff going on around here. Not their fault. It's just not whole heartedly accepted around here. If it had more exposure around here people willing to learn would hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak, and others who didn't go out of there way would be still exposed to it. Too many people around here practice their own version of "QDM" that really has little merit and factual evidence behind what's practiced.

I do not know how active they are but there is an Upper Hudson Valley branch. Contact them and get involved If they don't have a big presence there, maybe some new blood in the chapter could spice things up.

[erussell]

800,000 people may buy a lic. but much past first day not all use them except a few die hards especially if the weather is warm or to cold. First three days of gun this yr there was some shooting around here ( and from what I was hearing on the walkies most were misses ), past that there was nothing of significance. A shot here or there nowhere near me. I pretty much had the woods to myself. So I just take articles like this with grain of salt. It is no where near 1 hunter on every 40 acres unless your close to a big city maybe. And most tof them are weekend warriors you hunt during the week your alone.

[growalot]

Food sources haven't changed either primarily grapes so kind of odd. Acorn crops could have something to do with it. Lots of oaks down there

Having worked in Naples some years ago I tend to disagree with that a bit. Back then guys in that area were starting to plant for deer and turkey on their properties...and We have been down that way checking out the wind turbines and there seemed to be a lot more open areas then in the past all planted in one crop or another

Edited January 31, 2013 by growalot

[boo711]

Where are the wind turbines down that way? I don't venture to far outside of Penn yan, just to where we hunt. Haven't been to Naples in over 30 yrs. Things could have changed in areas. The land we hunt is all vineyards around it so we haven't had much of a change

[phade]

No I meant QDMA. I'm aware QDM stands for quality deer management, QDMA stands for ..... association. You shouldn't need to be in Bogart, GA to work for the QDMA. If the QDMA or even some other organization were to be more pronounced here, there'd be better structure and knowledge at hand. I'm aware there's a handful of branches here in NY. You just don't hear of enough about QDMA stuff going on around here. Not their fault. It's just not whole heartedly accepted around here. If it had more exposure around here people willing to learn would hear it straight from the horses mouth so to speak, and others who didn't go out of there way would be still exposed to it. Too many people around here practice their own version of "QDM" that really has little merit and factual evidence behind what's practiced.

The only jobs they really offer remotely are their RD (sales is a major component of their pay structure) and some of the biologist type roles (ala Kip). My job offer was contingent on relocation to Athens because it dealt with their communications and QW. When they flew me down there, it was a really nice place. Ultimately relocation and the non-profit pay scale couldn't compete with what my situation was like here in NY.

The branches are completely seperate from their home office operations, just like any business that franchises or a non-profit. In a sense the branches offer financial support to structure the non-profit head office. Now, that's not to say the branches are solely funding machines, as there is quite a bit of outreach and quality efforts (the recent meeting here in Rochester for one), but without the branches acting as a funding source, the QDMA couldn't survive easily. It's basic non-profit structure that works. Branches largely run on free time/labor/etc. from its members. Hence, that's why "presence" as you call it can be challenging anywhere. Quite frankly, the non-profit structure is about as good as it gets, and it's a tight ship...not much money to go around. And, we all know, without money, you have confines.

The other thing is just because you don't hear about them, doesn't mean they don't have a strong presence. QDMA has strong roots in NY, particularly in Region 8 and 9. Heck, NY has not one but TWO board members for the QDMA, with one being a former Chair. Only SC and KY have more than one representative on the boards, other than NY. Not even Georgia...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Phade. With all this knowledge how am I going to convince you to take up a role with GRST QDMA? Get one fo those over the shoulder baby hammocks and get over to the meetings...lol

[phade]

Phade. With all this knowledge how am I going to convince you to take up a role with GRST QDMA? Get one fo those over the shoulder baby hammocks and get over to the meetings...lol

I just picked up some work for the QDMA, too. Sheesh. Not a big deal, but the work is due in November. Talk about timing...I'll be in the tree on my tablet or smartphone getting work done, all the while on PTO from my normal gig. Hopefully I don't have to buy a baby-size harness, too. Good thing the better half lets me go out and play from time to time.

[growalot]

Where are the wind turbines down that way?

Well if memory serves..and I'll admit because of driving back roads I may be wrong but about a 14 mile give or take west of you...may have been thinking more Prattsburg...But I'm down that way often because our daughter knows every inch of the wine tours and all the micro wineries and breweries down there...I have not seen a lack of good deer habitat

[phade]

Well if memory serves..and I'll admit because of driving back roads I may be wrong but about a 14 mile give or take west of you...may have been thinking more Prattsburg...But I'm down that way often because our daughter knows every inch of the wine tours and all the micro wineries and breweries down there...I have not seen a lack of good deer habitat

Or turkey...they love the wineries.

[nyantler]

I know I'll get bombarded for this one, but I don't think it is hard at all to kill a buck in NY.. a big buck, yes... But, any buck? Not difficult at all. Well that is unless you're a terrible shot..lol