Successful in NY? That's saying something...

[dbHunterNY]

I do not know how active they are but there is an Upper Hudson Valley branch. Contact them and get involved If they don't have a big presence there, maybe some new blood in the chapter could spice things up.

i'm thinking i might have to.... seems if you tell someone about these practices it doesn't sink in. they just think you're making it up or read it online. if you show them a video clip, data from a study, etc all the sudden they start asking more questions with an interested look.

[WNY Bowhunter]

Well if memory serves..and I'll admit because of driving back roads I may be wrong but about a 14 mile give or take west of you...may have been thinking more Prattsburg...But I'm down that way often because our daughter knows every inch of the wine tours and all the micro wineries and breweries down there...I have not seen a lack of good deer habitat

Prattsburgh is my hometown. There aren't any wineries here but there are a lot of grapes grown around Hammondsport/Urbana, Pulteney and Branchport. The habitat for deer varies across the region from hilly with no cropfields to flatter with abundant agriculture. Some areas definately produce better deer than others.

[Doc]

Where are the wind turbines down that way? I don't venture to far outside of Penn yan, just to where we hunt. Haven't been to Naples in over 30 yrs. Things could have changed in areas. The land we hunt is all vineyards around it so we haven't had much of a change

Actually, I have been in the Naples area since I moved there in the 4th grade (that's a whole lot of years folks ...... lol). I have seen many huge vinyards ripped out, and a whole lot of farms go out of business taking with it huge acres of all kinds of cropland. Almost all of the marginal hill-side and hill-top farm land has been deserted or sold off to vacationers and city transplants. A lot of the brushlots are sporting a fairly mature over-story now, and much of the land that I used to hunt is now posted up tighter than a drum with only small groups of landowner friends hunting there.

So yes, things have changed big-time over the 30 years since you were in Naples last. Habitat and land use is entirely different from what you saw 30 years ago. And by the way, those ugly whirley-gigs that now decorate the hills are in Prattsburg and have pretty well wrecked the viewscape for surounding towns. In fact you can see a whole bunch of them while you are driving south down Mainstreet Naples. Not really on topic, but since you brought it up .........

[dbHunterNY]

The only jobs they really offer remotely are their RD (sales is a major component of their pay structure) and some of the biologist type roles (ala Kip). My job offer was contingent on relocation to Athens because it dealt with their communications and QW. When they flew me down there, it was a really nice place. Ultimately relocation and the non-profit pay scale couldn't compete with what my situation was like here in NY.

The branches are completely seperate from their home office operations, just like any business that franchises or a non-profit. In a sense the branches offer financial support to structure the non-profit head office. Now, that's not to say the branches are solely funding machines, as there is quite a bit of outreach and quality efforts (the recent meeting here in Rochester for one), but without the branches acting as a funding source, the QDMA couldn't survive easily. It's basic non-profit structure that works. Branches largely run on free time/labor/etc. from its members. Hence, that's why "presence" as you call it can be challenging anywhere. Quite frankly, the non-profit structure is about as good as it gets, and it's a tight ship...not much money to go around. And, we all know, without money, you have confines.

The other thing is just because you don't hear about them, doesn't mean they don't have a strong presence. QDMA has strong roots in NY, particularly in Region 8 and 9. Heck, NY has not one but TWO board members for the QDMA, with one being a former Chair. Only SC and KY have more than one representative on the boards, other than NY. Not even Georgia...

i don't have the knowledge you do of how they work and operate. i will say out in western NY, WMU 8 & 9 i saw more and better shows and events where QDMA branches can get out there easier. the menality is different out in western NY opposed to here at least in the capital region. just saying QDM practices aren't prevalent out here. that's one of QDMA's goals i'd imagine is to have their practices of QDM be accepted and acted on. not sure why hunters don't do more of it. everyone doesn't have to dump money and lots of time into food plots, habitat management, and studying their herd. there's a lot of simple and easy things one can do that doesn't require much effort.

[growalot]

Prattsburgh is my hometown. There aren't any wineries here

Isn't Bully Hill winery in Prattsburgh?

[phade]

i don't have the knowledge you do of how they work and operate. i will say out in western NY, WMU 8 & 9 i saw more and better shows and events where QDMA branches can get out there easier. the menality is different out in western NY opposed to here at least in the capital region. just saying QDM practices aren't prevalent out here. that's one of QDMA's goals i'd imagine is to have their practices of QDM be accepted and acted on. not sure why hunters don't do more of it. everyone doesn't have to dump money and lots of time into food plots, habitat management, and studying their herd. there's a lot of simple and easy things one can do that doesn't require much effort.

Capital region is tough indeed. I know of one guy who is around there, he seems to do well, but he also is a 1%er so to speak. He takes two months off and hunts multiple states and the ground he owns in the Capital region.

Honestly, if I lived there, I'd probably be hunting where the hunting is better...meaning not in the Capital region. Either that or I start duck hunting. And I don't want to duck hunt.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i don't have the knowledge you do of how they work and operate. i will say out in western NY, WMU 8 & 9 i saw more and better shows and events where QDMA branches can get out there easier. the menality is different out in western NY opposed to here at least in the capital region. just saying QDM practices aren't prevalent out here. that's one of QDMA's goals i'd imagine is to have their practices of QDM be accepted and acted on. not sure why hunters don't do more of it. everyone doesn't have to dump money and lots of time into food plots, habitat management, and studying their herd. there's a lot of simple and easy things one can do that doesn't require much effort.

The lower hudson Valley chapter is very active.

[WNY Bowhunter]

Isn't Bully Hill winery in Prattsburgh?

Nope...it's in Hammondsport/Urbana.

[growalot]

Right you are...though Prattsburgh did have...... some odd years ago .....a winery called Feddermans Wines...and they owned a restaurant that Mrs. Fedderman ran...The winery was short lived though...Also Bully hill winery owns land in Prattsburgh...I believe the owners Cabin and lands

[growalot]

I know this is off topic so last post...but thought it would be interesting info...The Fedderman Winery...Ray and Irene Fedderman was........ WNY correct me if I'm wrong please(no sarcasm in that)...... the first know winery in NYS owned by a person of color and if I'm correct Mr Taylor(?) the owner of Bully Hills helped him get his start...the winery closed in the 70's

[WesternNY]

Grow you asked about how the state gets 54% of bucks 1.5 when not all deer are checked. I assume its based on stats and a formula but I will check.

[phade]

Grow you asked about how the state gets 54% of bucks 1.5 when not all deer are checked. I assume its based on stats and a formula but I will check.

Analytics. Some states even outsorce them to professionals, with only the data collection in-field done by government personnel. Analytics is big money now.

Edit. I just had a conversation with a co-worker who hunts. He holds an ivy-league Phd in statistics and analytics. When it comes to this stuff, he's one of the best in country, and paid appropriately, ha. He believes the necessary sample size per WMU could be VERY small and still provide an accurate (in his opinion) numercial data picture. He thinks they could go as low as 50 bucks per WMU, but probably puts the sample number at a 100-250 taken from a geographical spread within the WMU.

The hardest part would be the balance (realistic) sample - balancing age classes of deer sent to processors with taxidermists, camps, etc. He believes they probably account for it in a mathematical calculation based on survey/research. But, for a sample size, he said it could be shockingly small and still be accurate.

This is all assuming accurate aging by the in-field professionals, which I think at this point we have to take as a given.

Edited January 31, 2013 by phade

[growalot]

Thanks for the answers guys

[Culvercreek hunt club]

From what I learned at the seminar we had I would think the tooth aging up to 3.5 should be pretty flawless for the most part. after that is seems a bit subjective.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Culvercreek hunt club

[phade]

From what I learned at the seminar we had I would think the tooth aging up to 3.5 should be pretty flawless for the most part. after that is seems a bit subjective.

NY uses TRW and not CA testing. CA is too expensive and requires lab testing, and there's not much of a market for it - two major players really. TRW is in-the-field and as you said pretty accurate up to 3.5. Beyond that CA takes a front seat.

[WNY Bowhunter]

I know this is off topic so last post...but thought it would be interesting info...The Fedderman Winery...Ray and Irene Fedderman was........ WNY correct me if I'm wrong please(no sarcasm in that)...... the first know winery in NYS owned by a person of color and if I'm correct Mr Taylor(?) the owner of Bully Hills helped him get his start...the winery closed in the 70's

I asked one of my uncles about this and he said that what you stated is true...

[josephmrtn]

got a grape vineyard right beside our place... several others within a couple miles (i think there run by the Thousand Islands Winery) maby i should try and get permission to turkey hunt em...

[dbHunterNY]

From what I learned at the seminar we had I would think the tooth aging up to 3.5 should be pretty flawless for the most part. after that is seems a bit subjective.

in learning more about deer and management i figured i'd give this a go. what i've learned is just what you said. don't know how anyone can tell the difference. i've looked at lots of known jaw bones and sometimes you guess well and other days are just bad. much harder than looking at swapped out premolars with numbers of cusps.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

in learning more about deer and management i figured i'd give this a go. what i've learned is just what you said. don't know how anyone can tell the difference. i've looked at lots of known jaw bones and sometimes you guess well and other days are just bad. much harder than looking at swapped out premolars with numbers of cusps.

Yeah the first couple years sems pretty easy but then diet can play a big part in the wear shown on the molars. A diet of hard mast vs soft crop can makea big difference. At that point, though, with the jaw bone in hand, if I can get confirmation that it is at least 3.5 I know I didn't let my desire to take a buck get in the way of what my eyes were seeing in body features ...lol

[phade]

Yeah the first couple years sems pretty easy but then diet can play a big part in the wear shown on the molars. A diet of hard mast vs soft crop can makea big difference. At that point, though, with the jaw bone in hand, if I can get confirmation that it is at least 3.5 I know I didn't let my desire to take a buck get in the way of what my eyes were seeing in body features ...lol

The accuracy above 3.5 falls with TRW, and that's where CA really shines.

But, should you need an in-the-field (garage, etc) go at aging the buck via teeth look at the amount of dentine showing vs. the actual tooth wear. Dentine widens and appears on teeth "further back" as the bucks age. If you have dentine on tooth 6 that is appreciable...you are likely starting at 4.5+...if it is equal to the enamel, probably 4.5. If it is wider, you are looking at 5.5 and beyond. Now, that's not to say it's as accurate as CA, because it most certainly is not. But, it's a good guide when in the field and there is no sample going in for testing.

[nyantler]

For the purpose of yearling buck protection alone.. aging to 3.5 ...which is relatively easy...is more than adequate for determining the success of the program... it becomes harder when the intention is to determine and maintain higher age classes than 3.5... it would be nearly impossible to manage whitetails publicly or through mandate as it's done in places like texas or on some QDM properties for much older buck age classes... logistically it would be a nightmare to try and do state wide. Just protecting yearlings in NY would create a vast improvement in buck age structure... beyond that... just not that easy to do.

[dbHunterNY]

NY uses TRW and not CA testing. CA is too expensive and requires lab testing, and there's not much of a market for it - two major players really. TRW is in-the-field and as you said pretty accurate up to 3.5. Beyond that CA takes a front seat.

if you were to send teeth out, roughly how much does it cost for a cementum analysis on a deer? i've never had it done before.

[WesternNY]

I believe it is between 30 and 40.

[phade]

deerage.com

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I see people say shorten gun season to mangae deer, Wouldn't it be better to have longer seasons so people don't have to rush and shoot the first thing they see because they will have more time to hunt?