Groups not coming together... Is this why?

[josephmrtn]

Ok here's the deal... I can put arrows in a paper plate sized hole all day long (at 10 yrds... i havn't tried 20 yet) but I want/need to be able to put em in a paper cup sized hole... here's why i THINK I cant pull it in better... (besides needing practice)

PLEASE dont laugh at me!!!!!!

I went and weighed all my arrows and practice points his morn... and found that: All my arrows weigh between 429.3 grains and 498.6 grains... and all my practice points are between 123.1 grains and 144.5 grains...

(im shooting 4 diff brands of arrow, EASTON 2216-LITE XX75 CAMO HUNTER, 6 of em, BEAR CAMO 2117, 3 of em, NORTH AMERICAN HUNTER 2216, 2 of em, Tru-Flight CAMO 2117, 2 of em) does this affect my accuracy? needless to say I am NOT going to throw my arrows away or anything and i will still use them to practice but i need to be consistent for hunting... (Im shooting 100 grain Thunderhead Broadheads)

 

what are your opinions?

[phade]

That's a loaded question. It looks like there's a bunch in play here.

 

Have you been set up by a pro shop or someone who knows what they are doing?

 

Lots of things come to consider when talking accuracy.

[PWGUNNY]

Different arrows will definitely affect your accuracy.  I always buy arrows a dozen at a time and always shoot the same exact arrows.  An arrow flight is very sensitive and will magnify more over greater distances.  Your anchor point should always remain constant, but waht can affect your groups is if you are gripping the bow too tight and torquing on release.  It is hard to realize that you are doing this, but something to focus on especially affecting your miss on windage.  If you get different weight arrows into a tight group, then you're doing something wrong because that shouldn't happen.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Archery is all about consistency, both in form and equipment. 70 grains of difference is going to affect accuracy in a pretty big way. Last year I moved from 100 to 125 grain broadheads and at 30 yards, it was a 2" difference. Thats only 25 grains coming off of a bow that is 300fps.

[josephmrtn]

That's a loaded question. It looks like there's a bunch in play here.

 

Have you been set up by a pro shop or someone who knows what they are doing?

 

Lots of things come to consider when talking accuracy.

 

Nope... got the bow from doewhacker (on here)

Different arrows will definitely affect your accuracy.  I always buy arrows a dozen at a time and always shoot the same exact arrows.  An arrow flight is very sensitive and will magnify more over greater distances.  Your anchor point should always remain constant, but waht can affect your groups is if you are gripping the bow too tight and torquing on release.  It is hard to realize that you are doing this, but something to focus on especially affecting your miss on windage.  If you get different weight arrows into a tight group, then you're doing something wrong because that shouldn't happen.

thats kinda what i thought and is why i weighed them... no im not doing that... i read about that and as such have been using a bow sling and making sure my hand is open and relaxed...

not a prob for me lol...

 

im gonna go shoot a couple groups and post pics, hang on a couple mins...

[Doewhacker]

I can tell with out a doubt its in that rest I sent out with the bow, you need a fine tune done on it. Make sure its all tight because if I recall it has plastic parts and plastic parts tend to move around.

On top of that the difference in arrows will also affect your groups.

[Doewhacker]

What you can do is shoot each arrow and mark where they hit each time to see if they are grouping by brand if that makes sense.

[josephmrtn]

I can tell with out a doubt its in that rest I sent out with the bow, you need a fine tune done on it. Make sure its all tight because if I recall it has plastic parts and plastic parts tend to move around.

On top of that the difference in arrows will also affect your groups.

Ok i will check that... 

BTW funny story I was shooting a bow that one of my friends loaned me... (before this one) i was getting pretty good groups with it too... almost as good as this one... then one day I shook it as i was holding it, i heard a rattle noise, looked and the screw that holds the sight to the bow was loose, the sight was wobbling all around and i still could hit the target! lol

 

What you can do is shoot each arrow and mark where they hit each time to see if they are grouping by brand if that makes sense.

Yeah that does make sense...

 

here are my groups...

1.

2.

3.

[NYbuck50]

you can pickup a half dozen arrows, cut and ready to go for like 50 bucks.  Use 3 for practice and save 3 for hunting.  Why not take the variables out of the equation?

[josephmrtn]

and yes i always seem to hit a little to the right... i think its the rest as doewhacker mentioned...

[josephmrtn]

you can pickup a half dozen arrows, cut and ready to go for like 50 bucks.  Use 3 for practice and save 3 for hunting.  Why not take the variables out of the equation?

Cause I already have a pack of 6 brand new EASTON 2216 XX75 CAMO HUNTER's

[WNYBuckHunter]

Cause I already have a pack of 6 brand new EASTON 2216 XX75 CAMO HUNTER's

 

So just use those and forget the rest. Oh, and set them up all the same, if you are using those shrink fletches, make sure they all have them. Use the same grain practice points, etc.

[josephmrtn]

+1 yeah thats what i was gonna do... however i figured if im gonna be shooting out in the yard or woods... just kinda plugging, i should use my crappy ones so that If i lose/bend/smash em it dont matter, but for target/hunting only use the exact same brand and weight...

[RangerClay]

This will help

 

http://www.tenzone.u-net.com/Equipment/tuning/pdfs/tuning01.pdf

[Five Seasons]

for some reason i thought this was about NYB and NYCC haha. Anyhow, I've never been a fan of shooting different brands of arrows regardless of weight. yes it may increase trips down range, but it also decreases robin hooding an arrow. The more consistent you can be with with your equipment the less variables come into play as to why you may be off. Obviously this can get expensive, so it depends on how important your paper cup  vs paper plate goal really is to you.

 

I'm also a very firm believer in practicing how you play. I use an extra pair of hunting gloves to practice with and it's the same thickness as the one i hunt with. I dont want to use those as I'd stink them up and wear them out. I also often wear a bulky jacket and hat/facemask to imitate the cammo and gear i'll be wearing in the stand, which is also important. if possible set up a practice stand and always shoot from a similar height that you hunt at. This last bit I would recommend after you get some good groups off the ground and you're sure your site is good and your equipment is good.

 

I will add that loctite is your friend when it comes to accessories and you should always have 2 anchor points. Mine is the corner of my mouth and my nose. pick yours, but always try for 2.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Belo

[RangerClay]

Here is an Easton Guide

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/18060886/-Arrow-Tuning-Guide

[phade]

for some reason i thought this was about NYB and NYCC haha. Anyhow, I've never been a fan of shooting different brands of arrows regardless of weight. yes it may increase trips down range, but it also decreases robin hodding an arrow. The more consistent you can be with with your equipment the less variables come into play as to why you may be off. Obviously this can get expensive, so it depends on how important your paper cup  vs paper plate goal really is to you.

 

I'm also a very firm believer in practicing how you play. I use an extra pair of hunting gloves to practice with and it's the same thickness as the one i hunt with. I dont want to use those as I'd stink them up and wear them out. I also often wear a bulky jacket and hat/facemask to imitate the cammo and gear i'll be wearing in the stand, which is also important. if possible set up a practice stand and always shoot from a similar height that you hunt at. This last bit I would recommend after you get some good groups off the ground and you're sure your site is good and your equipment is good.

 

I will add that loctite is your friend when it comes to accessories and you should always have 2 anchor points. Mine is the corner of my mouth and my nose. pick yours, but always try for 2.

 

 

When I buy arrows, I find an arrow suitable with good reviews...I buy a few to give it a shake for a few sessions. Then I usually buy 3-6 dozen at a single purchase. Reason being that I don't have to worry about the manufacturer removing a model from the line-up. Case in point, I have been shooting Epic ST for two years now and I still have two dozen shafts left in reserve. They stopped making EPIC ST last season. Nothing like having to do an unnecessary tune, re-sight etc. for the simple sake of being forced to a new arrow. Get the bow shooting right, take care of it, and eliminate unnecessary tweaking.

 

I agree on shooting similar to real life conditions. My hunting rig hasn't had a field point on it in two seasons.

Edited May 20, 2013 by phade

[Gthphtm]

Good advice from everyone, But I think trying to get a tight groupe is a waste of time and arrows if you use broadheads as that is all I shoot also and the same brand, type and weight as are the arrows.Your are on a farm the must be pleanty of hay bales around, make a pile and hang 4 or 5 paper plates and try to hit them all in the center.Start at 10 yds. when you get good and hit them all in the center now move out to 20 yds. and then 30 yds.Then off of the back of a pickup or hay wagon, some people even practice shooting off of the roof of there house. Remember a deer , turkey , rabbit or whatever is not going to be on that same spot on a target.

[josephmrtn]

for some reason i thought this was about NYB and NYCC haha. Anyhow, I've never been a fan of shooting different brands of arrows regardless of weight. yes it may increase trips down range, but it also decreases robin hooding an arrow. The more consistent you can be with with your equipment the less variables come into play as to why you may be off. Obviously this can get expensive, so it depends on how important your paper cup  vs paper plate goal really is to you.

 

I'm also a very firm believer in practicing how you play. I use an extra pair of hunting gloves to practice with and it's the same thickness as the one i hunt with. I dont want to use those as I'd stink them up and wear them out. I also often wear a bulky jacket and hat/facemask to imitate the cammo and gear i'll be wearing in the stand, which is also important. if possible set up a practice stand and always shoot from a similar height that you hunt at. This last bit I would recommend after you get some good groups off the ground and you're sure your site is good and your equipment is good.

 

I will add that loctite is your friend when it comes to accessories and you should always have 2 anchor points. Mine is the corner of my mouth and my nose. pick yours, but always try for 2.

What???? your more likely to robin hood if your putting arrows in the same hole than all over the target... buddy of mine did on at 60 yrds one time...

Why would you wear a bulky coat? bow season is around the end of sept beginning of oct... im thinking more like a camo T and jeans w camo face paint... possibly a jacket in the eve's

+1

 

Good advice from everyone, But I think trying to get a tight group is a waste of time and arrows if you use broadheads as that is all I shoot also and the same brand, type and weight as are the arrows.Your are on a farm the must be pleanty of hay bales around, make a pile and hang 4 or 5 paper plates and try to hit them all in the center.Start at 10 yds. when you get good and hit them all in the center now move out to 20 yds. and then 30 yds.Then off of the back of a pickup or hay wagon, some people even practice shooting off of the roof of there house. Remember a deer , turkey , rabbit or whatever is not going to be on that same spot on a target.

WHAT?!?

+1

what do you mean? I NEED to be able to hit the same spot EVERY time!!! I dont wanna gut shoot a deer!!! I wanna be able to do a double lung every time... (even tho it wont happen every time... lol)

[ants]

All your arrows need to be the same. If you have a new box, use those, and make sure that all of your field points/broad heads are exactly the same too. I hunt with the same arrows I practice with. I just make sure they fly good with the practice broad heads, and Im set. Never a problem. Don't know if you have one or not but a peep sight will help a lot with your left-right.

[Five Seasons]

What???? your more likely to robin hood if your putting arrows in the same hole than all over the target... buddy of mine did on at 60 yrds one time...

Why would you wear a bulky coat? bow season is around the end of sept beginning of oct... im thinking more like a camo T and jeans w camo face paint... possibly a jacket in the eve's

+1

 

WHAT?!?

+1

what do you mean? I NEED to be able to hit the same spot EVERY time!!! I dont wanna gut shoot a deer!!! I wanna be able to do a double lung every time... (even tho it wont happen every time... lol)

 

1. if you're shooting at the same plate and 15 arrows at a time, your chances are greater that you're going to robin hood vs only shooting 1/2 dozen. If you're shooting multiple targets, then I'm not sure how you're going to determine your arrows are the issue or not.  Scientific method, only change one variable at a time and everything else remains constant. I simply trying to point out that if you buy a good dozen or half dozen arrow set, that even though you might have to retrieve your arrows more often in one session you might save a few. Plus it's never good to shoot "too much" you want to shoot 2 to 3 dozen and really no more at a time.

 

2. 10/1 - 11/20 something? Sure there's some warm weather bow days, but plenty of cold, especially when you're not moving. Regardless I'm always in my gilie suit, it's what's underneath that changes with weather. Bow season is a lot about scent and cover. Face paint, jeans and a T may work for you but it's not my choice.

[WNY Bowhunter]

It's your arrows.  It sounds as if they vary by an upwards of 80 grains!!! A difference of 3 grains in your arrow weight will effect your bows speed by 1 fps, so a difference of 80 grains will have two different arrows traveling @ speeds that are off by 27 fps.  The further that you shoot the more of a difference you will see. Having mismatched arrow shafts also creates a tuning nightmare because you don't have a consistant arrow spine to work with (plus, I'm betting that they are differnt lengths too).

 

My advice is to buy a half dozen carbon arrows, use 100 grain tips on all of them and have a local proshop set your bow up properly.

Edited May 20, 2013 by WNY Bowhunter

[WNYBuckHunter]

WHAT?!?

+1

what do you mean? I NEED to be able to hit the same spot EVERY time!!! I dont wanna gut shoot a deer!!! I wanna be able to do a double lung every time... (even tho it wont happen every time... lol)

 

Hes talking about shooting multiple "spots" instead of just one spot over and over. Its a method based on the theory that only the first shot counts. When you shoot 10 shots at the same exact spot, you can "walk" them in tighter to the spot unintentionally. It will also save you money because you wont be robin hooding your arrows.

 

I dont shoot groups after I get my equipment sighted in.

[josephmrtn]

All your arrows need to be the same. If you have a new box, use those, and make sure that all of your field points/broad heads are exactly the same too. I hunt with the same arrows I practice with. I just make sure they fly good with the practice broad heads, and Im set. Never a problem. Don't know if you have one or not but a peep sight will help a lot with your left-right.

 

got one...

It's your arrows.  It sounds as if they vary by an upwards of 80 grains!!! A difference of 3 grains in your arrow weight will effect your bows speed by 1 fps, so a difference of 80 grains will have two different arrows traveling @ speeds that are off by 27 fps.  The further that you shoot the more of a difference you will see. Having mismatched arrow shafts also creates a tuning nightmare because you don't have a consistant arrow spine to work with (plus, I'm betting that they are differnt lengths too).

 

My advice is to buy a half dozen carbon arrows, use 100 grain tips on all of them and have a local proshop set your bow up properly.

+1

 

Hes talking about shooting multiple "spots" instead of just one spot over and over. Its a method based on the theory that only the first shot counts. When you shoot 10 shots at the same exact spot, you can "walk" them in tighter to the spot unintentionally. It will also save you money because you wont be robin hooding your arrows.

 

I dont shoot groups after I get my equipment sighted in.

Oh i get it...

[chiefbkt]

It's your arrows. It sounds as if they vary by an upwards of 80 grains!!! A difference of 3 grains in your arrow weight will effect your bows speed by 1 fps, so a difference of 80 grains will have two different arrows traveling @ speeds that are off by 27 fps. The further that you shoot the more of a difference you will see. Having mismatched arrow shafts also creates a tuning nightmare because you don't have a consistant arrow spine to work with (plus, I'm betting that they are differnt lengths too).

My advice is to buy a half dozen carbon arrows, use 100 grain tips on all of them and have a local proshop set your bow up properly.

Like WNYBowhunter said, go buy the best half dozen of carbon arrows that you can afford and put 100 grain points on them. I'm sure once you start shooting 6 of the same type of arrow you will see an improvement.

Keep in mind, if you plan on deer hunting this fall with your set up, you're going to want to be as accurate as possible. Shooting several different types of arrows that are flying all over isn't going to help matters any. Ethically speaking, I wouldn't want to hear you were going to go hunt with what you are shooting now. It will just end up as a post on here saying how you wounded a deer and can't find it. Get your equipment set up for you and find an experienced archer to shoot with. Constructive criticism is very helpful when first starting out. It's just gonna make you more confident come fall.