Cougar

[Water Rat]

Yes , I realize there are trail cam photos of moose on this site.......just not as many as I thought there would be considering the population is estimated at 600 animals.

 

The mountain lion that was killed in Connecticut was first seen near Lake George by the wife of a retired DEC officer. Only then was it investigated and tracks were verified.

Do you think they would stop by your house had it been your wife ? To the best of my knowledge , there are no trail cam photos of this cat. I would think it would have been common knowledge of a trail camera photo long before it was struck and killed by a car months later.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes , I realize there are trail cam photos of moose on this site.......just not as many as I thought there would be considering the population is estimated at 600 animals.

 

The mountain lion that was killed in Connecticut was first seen near Lake George by the wife of a retired DEC officer. Only then was it investigated and tracks were verified.

Do you think they would stop by your house had it been your wife ? To the best of my knowledge , there are no trail cam photos of this cat. I would think it would have been common knowledge of a trail camera photo long before it was struck and killed by a car months later.

 

Not everyone with a trail cam in NY comes on this site.

 

The ML killed in CT was documented as it traveled across the Midwest and NE, not just in Lake George. Get your facts straight.

[Nomad]

I'm off to the gym in a few minutes, this time of day it's packed with 'em.

[Water Rat]

Not everyone with a trail cam in NY comes on this site.

 

The ML killed in CT was documented as it traveled across the Midwest and NE, not just in Lake George. Get your facts straight.

 

Post this documentation then.

 

The cat was seen in December and killed in June. Show me the documentation during this time frame while it was in New York State.

 

[Doewhacker]

Post this documentation then.

 

The cat was seen in December and killed in June. Show me the documentation during this time frame while it was in New York State.

 

 

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/about/74534.html

[Water Rat]

Thanks Doewhacker.......but I was looking for documentation before it was killed and investigated. Any sightings , photos , hair samples , print casts ?

[mmkay]

For those that wonder why a trail camera has yet to capture a Mt. Loin, possible answers might be:

1. They don’t exist in the state

Or

 

(2. ) NYS is roughly 54,556 square miles or 34.9 MILLION acres.    Let’s assume that of the 34.9 million areas that ½ (17.4 million acres) is suitable for wildlife.  Let’s guestimate the number of hunters in the state at 1 million and that each of these 1 million hunters has time and cameras to cover 1 acres 24/7 for 365 days.  This leaves 16.4 million areas of land suitable for wildlife with no camera, or 97% of the total state with no camera. 

 

But this is very conservative.  I would bet most hunters don’t have cameras.  That the ones that do don’t cover more that an acre and don’t leave them out 24/7 365 days.

 

I’m not saying Mt. Loins are here, just pointing out that NYS is a large state and very few trail cams are out there.

 

Edited August 22, 2013 by mmkay

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thanks Doewhacker.......but I was looking for documentation before it was killed and investigated. Any sightings , photos , hair samples , print casts ?

 

Theres this thing called google...

 

Look at what doewhacker posted, theres pics of the prints, etc in there. Google it, theres more out there about it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

For those that wonder why a trail camera has yet to capture a Mt. Loin, possible answers might be:

1. They don’t exist in the state

Or

 

(2. ) NYS is roughly 54,556 square miles or 34.9 MILLION acres.    Let’s assume that of the 34.9 million areas that ½ (17.4 million acres) is suitable for wildlife.  Let’s guestimate the number of hunters in the state at 1 million and that each of these 1 million hunters has time and cameras to cover 1 acres 24/7 for 365 days.  This leaves 16.4 million areas of land suitable for wildlife with no camera, or 97% of the total state with no camera. 

 

But this is very conservative.  I would bet most hunters don’t have cameras.  That the ones that do don’t cover more that an acre and don’t leave them out 24/7 365 days.

 

I’m not saying Mt. Loins are here, just pointing out that NYS is a large state and very few trail cams are out there.

 

One kangaroo got lose in NY last year. There were multiple pictures of it within a month. Just sayin.

[sampotter]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/07/mountain-lion-killed-in-conn-had-walked-from-south-dakota/1#.UhYjzyrD_3g

[sampotter]

With the New York state moose population estimated to be near 600 animals , why is it there are very few photos taken of them from trail cameras ? They are certainly not elusive when compared to other species. Was the mountain lion that was killed in Connecticut captured on anyone's trail camera ?

 

 

Here's a moose trail cam thread I put up last fall:

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/13245-2012-adirondack-moose/?hl=moose

 

My brother gets plenty of moose on the cams and now that I've committed a few of my cams to the ADKs I've started getting them pretty often too.

[mmkay]

NYSBUCKHUNTER - then #1 applies. 

 

I'm a trained a statistician I make my living building databases and predicting probabilities.  The probability of a breed population of Mt. Loins in NYS is near nill.  The probability of a wandering animal being captured by a trail cam in NYS is also near nill.

[G-Man]

The one cat that was killed was documented by foot prints and feces. They just kept the information non public till it was killed. We do not live in an open information society. When it was killed the genetlicly traced it using feces. Breeding here no...wandering thru yes. Elk have been seen in NY no ear tags wandering thru pa line. Not breeding here..but here none the less. Friend had one walk by a stand several years ago, raghorn bull. Again no ear tags. Animals move.

[Doc]

With all the surveillance mechanisms and practices out there, there is very little of the state that is not being observed annually. Trail cams are just one of the means of detecting critters. Every year we have an army of hunters out there parading around in the woods. Right now there are all kinds of people scouting for bow season. There are mountain bikers in areas where years ago there weren't even people. Hikers blanket the state. Highways slice and dice all of the state with thousands of potential "cougar viewers". More and more vacation cabins are popping up in the NYS badlands. Campers ... everywhere. There are livestock farmers in every corner of the state which would act as a magnet for a hungry mountain lion. Even bird-watchers have invaded the deepest darkest regions of the state. And then too, consider that mountain lions do not find a single spot in the woods and simply stay there. They are wandering animals that have a huge range. Considering all that, I think the odds of somebody, somewhere, getting some pretty solid pictorial evidence is really quite high. That is, assuming there actually is something out there to provide leave that evidence.

[WNYBuckHunter]

NYSBUCKHUNTER - then #1 applies. 

 

I'm a trained a statistician I make my living building databases and predicting probabilities.  The probability of a breed population of Mt. Loins in NYS is near nill.  The probability of a wandering animal being captured by a trail cam in NYS is also near nill.

 

I dont see the probability of one being captured on camera as being near nil. Not in this day and age. Too many cell phone cameras, trail cams, etc out there. There isnt a whole lot in a highly populated state like NY that goes unnoticed. Other than the Dacks, we dont have giant tracts of land that arent tread upon with some regularity.

[mmkay]

WNYBuckHunter

 

perhaps...but #1 would still appy.  maybe they don't exist here.   Rarely does one migrate here. 

 

I said trail cam pics would be next to null...never mentioned cell phone camera.  maybe this increases the odds.  but how many wandering Mt. Loins are in NYS today?  let's say it's 5.  NYS is 34.9 MILLION acres.  Are people on all 34.9 million acreas right now?  will they remain there 24/7 365 days with these crappy little phone cameres?  will all 34.9 million people on this land be quite enough?, scent free enough?  hidden enough?  to see one of these 5 cats?

 

I'm not saying that they are here or not here.  I know folks that swear they are here.  It's going to take a very lucky person to get a photo.  The probability is very low that all i'm saying

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G-Man]

Most people hunt, hike, live work withing 1/2 mile of road. can't tell you number of big bucks I see along tracks, and no I can't get camera out to get pic in .time. Ever see a coyote in the woods? Can you get camera out fast enough to get pic? Get em on trail cams but there are lots andI only get a few pics of them a year. Make it 1 animal andI may never get one.

[WNYBuckHunter]

WNYBuckHunter

 

perhaps...but #1 would still appy.  maybe they don't exist here.   Rarely does one migrate here. 

 

I said trail cam pics would be next to null...never mentioned cell phone camera.  maybe this increases the odds.  but how many wandering Mt. Loins are in NYS today?  let's say it's 5.  NYS is 34.9 MILLION acres.  Are people on all 34.9 million acreas right now?  will they remain there 24/7 365 days with these crappy little phone cameres?  will all 34.9 million people on this land be quite enough?, scent free enough?  hidden enough?  to see one of these 5 cats?

 

I'm not saying that they are here or not here.  I know folks that swear they are here.  It's going to take a very lucky person to get a photo.  The probability is very low that all i'm saying

 

I hear ya. I am of the persuasion that #1 is the most likely situation.

[josephmrtn]

I am sooooooo not interested in seeing a super predator like that in NY. There is something comforting about being at the top of the food chain.

lol sure is!

[growalot]

I'm in the woods enough to NEVER say NEVER...never knew we had porcupines on our place....ppl said they weren't in this area...until I looked down out of my tree stand to see one waddling around under me...no mistake for we watch them down at camp all the time....ppl  said that we didn't have pygmy rattlers ..until I had one strike the tire of the small JD..no mistake ...I cleaned the cage and fed one mice at work for 2yrs...I'd never seen the tiny Saw-whet owl until one tumbled out of the sky with a sparrow as big as it was...they suspended mid air 3ft in front of my face for just moment before tumbling off through the tree tops...I trailed a blk bear trialling a wounded deer from one end of our place to the other and they managed to walk with in feet and behind 4 game cameras...never say never...just because one can't see or hasn't seen.... doesn't mean they aren't there...I keep an open mind..I've never seen God...but hey.....I hear others have.....

[Water Rat]

I dont see the probability of one being captured on camera as being near nil. Not in this day and age. Too many cell phone cameras, trail cams, etc out there. There isnt a whole lot in a highly populated state like NY that goes unnoticed. Other than the Dacks, we dont have giant tracts of land that arent tread upon with some regularity.

 

After reviewing the DEC website , it claims the mountain lion traveled thru :

Minnesota

Wisconsin

Michigan

Ontario,Canada

New York

Connecticut 

 

It was only seen on 2 trail cameras . Once in Minnesota and the other in Michigan . Pretty nil to me.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Theres no such thing as pretty nil. It was captured on cameras, tracks were found and photographed, among other evidence collected. Talk in all the circles you want, but the facts are the facts. One wandered through, and verifiable evidence was found and collected.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Remember the movie Kindergarten Cop when Arnold says "It's not a toomuh" ?

Well, "IT'S NOT A COOGUH!"

[Water Rat]

Theres no such thing as pretty nil. It was captured on cameras, tracks were found and photographed, among other evidence collected. Talk in all the circles you want, but the facts are the facts. One wandered through, and verifiable evidence was found and collected.

 

Those are facts....2 trail am photo's from 5 states and Canada ( according to NYSDEC ).

Fail to see how that's " talking in circles ".

[WNYBuckHunter]

Its talking in circles because the facts show that when there is actually a Mt Lion in the area, evidence (whether it be pics, prints, scat, kills) is present. Now show me any verifiable evidence to back up any of the other claims or sightings and Ill pay attention.