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NY Management Coalition

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gjs4 Newbie

gjs4

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... and would support any change in the regs that reflected that... a great number of hunter in NY are way more concerned about what they want than anything that has to do with real conservation of whitetails, they like to talk the talk but can't be bothered to walk the walk.

 

Amen!

 

I feel the DEC is the same way- they want license sales and do not want to manage deer leaving it up to the hunters so they do not need to rub anyones fur the wrong way.

 

I am all about mature deer but the number of saved buck fawns by having 3pts on one side wont make this Iowa. Everyone wants this or that but the line is way shorter when someone purposes more gun season regs....that walk is too bothersome

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WesternNY Newbie

WesternNY

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To be clear on QDMA's  AR position read it for yourself Here:

 

http://www.qdma.com/articles/qdmas-position-on-mandatory-antler-restrictions

 

I generally don't get involved with threads like this because it gets out of hand real quick.

 

There are a good number of NY hunters who practice some form of AR's.  The Greater Rochester S. Tier QDMA Branch  hopes through education and experience more and more NY hunters will decide for themselves to pass on 1.5 year olds.

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Doc Experienced

Doc

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I feel the DEC is the same way- they want license sales and do not want to manage deer leaving it up to the hunters so they do not need to rub anyones fur the wrong way.

 

One thing we have to bear in mind is that hunters are the most important management tool that the DEC has (no hunters - no management). So when we talk about the DEC being concerned with license sales or worrying about keeping hunters interested in remaining in the sport, it is a legitimate concern for the DEC when trying to manage the deer herd. Coming up with regulations that result in a decline of hunters may in the end be a very devastating management decision. So when they show concern for hunter satisfaction, it's not just because they are trying to be nice guys. They are simply keeping their only population control mechanism in an adequate condition for use.

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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One thing we have to bear in mind is that hunters are the most important management tool that the DEC has (no hunters - no management). So when we talk about the DEC being concerned with license sales or worrying about keeping hunters interested in remaining in the sport, it is a legitimate concern for the DEC when trying to manage the deer herd. Coming up with regulations that result in a decline of hunters may in the end be a very devastating management decision. So when they show concern for hunter satisfaction, it's not just because they are trying to be nice guys. They are simply keeping their only population control mechanism in an adequate condition for use.

Absolutely true... all the more reason for hunters to really start thinking a bit more about what's best for the deer. It would be much easier for the DEC to do what they know is best than have to walk the tightrope. I am not naïve enough to believe that much will ever change... its the human condition... their will forever be hunters that simply refuse to educate themselves on the importance of conservation and what is important for optimum herd health... there will always be the one "weekend a year" hunter... and there will always be the "I'll do what I please because I pay for a license" hunter... it just is what it is.

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growalot Newbie

growalot

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there will always be the one "weekend a year" hunter... and there will always be the "I'll do what I please because I pay for a license" hunter... it just is what it is.

 

God bless them...for they are out there reducing the ever growing herd ...like the rest of us...the young buck and or doe they take may be the one that didn't kill someones loved one as they drove down the road one day...They may be the one that has a terminal illness with one last hunt of their lives to take...or someones elderly Dad/Mom...grandparent...having their last hunt

 

(sp)

Edited by growalot
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Doc Experienced

Doc

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Absolutely true... all the more reason for hunters to really start thinking a bit more about what's best for the deer. It would be much easier for the DEC to do what they know is best than have to walk the tightrope. I am not naïve enough to believe that much will ever change... its the human condition... their will forever be hunters that simply refuse to educate themselves on the importance of conservation and what is important for optimum herd health... there will always be the one "weekend a year" hunter... and there will always be the "I'll do what I please because I pay for a license" hunter... it just is what it is.

Sometimes I think that we are so involved in deer hunting and all the little twists and turns of management that we tend to forget that most hunters do not get as involved as we do. In fact most hunters still view hunting as a recreational activity and not a scientific study that they must devote hours of study toward (imagine that!). Nobody ever said that the sport of hunting required a PHD or some sort of dedication that requires them to become fanatical. It is not a case of hunters refusing to educate themselves. It is more a case of them keeping the activity in perspective and probably in the right priority within the other aspects of their lives. Don't forget that we are the fanatics and the abnormals in the sport. And that does not necessarily mean that the rest of the hunting population is involved in hunting incorrectly. And you are absolutely correct the majority level of participation of the average hunter in the science of deer management will not likely ever change. Should it? .... I don't know. But I do understand that most hunters barely have time to learn about hunting and absolutely no time to devote to the science of deer management. I think it is not so much a thing to criticize as it is a fact of life to be recognized. I don't see it as right or wrong, it just is.

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nyantler Apprentice

nyantler

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Sometimes I think that we are so involved in deer hunting and all the little twists and turns of management that we tend to forget that most hunters do not get as involved as we do. In fact most hunters still view hunting as a recreational activity and not a scientific study that they must devote hours of study toward (imagine that!). Nobody ever said that the sport of hunting required a PHD or some sort of dedication that requires them to become fanatical. It is not a case of hunters refusing to educate themselves. It is more a case of them keeping the activity in perspective and probably in the right priority within the other aspects of their lives. Don't forget that we are the fanatics and the abnormals in the sport. And that does not necessarily mean that the rest of the hunting population is involved in hunting incorrectly. And you are absolutely correct the majority level of participation of the average hunter in the science of deer management will not likely ever change. Should it? .... I don't know. But I do understand that most hunters barely have time to learn about hunting and absolutely no time to devote to the science of deer management. I think it is not so much a thing to criticize as it is a fact of life to be recognized. I don't see it as right or wrong, it just is.

I guess I agree with all that... it just puzzles me that many of those same hunters have strong opinions against sound conservation efforts and although they claim they have little time for hunting... they spend hours on forums like this playing down the importance of what they don't understand (or refuse to learn). Believe me, I get the whole resistance to any mandated AR's and am actual pleased to see that there has been a growing number of hunters that have voluntarily taken to being more selective when it comes to taking younger bucks. I too don't believe that jamming AR's down hunters throats is necessarily the answer, but denying that young buck protection is a key part of any sound deer management program just shows some of the ignorance that can slow down any conservation effort. We focus a lot on AR's because it is the hot topic right now.. but the ignorance runs rampant in many other areas as well... which has impeded DEC conservation efforts for many years.

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Five Seasons Grand Master

Five Seasons

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Educate, then theres no need to legislate.

 

because at the age of 3, we're taught violence is bad... but people are beaten and murdered every minute of the day. education, legislation. Sometimes it just doesn't matter.

 

 

reducing the ever growing herd ...like the rest of us...the young buck and or doe they take may be the one that didn't kill someones loved one as they drove down the road one day...

 

 

what....

 

with that logic why don't we just eradicate all deer?

 

 

I bet 90% of you guys who complain about AR were the same guys complaining about not being able to shoot anything but a 4 pointer or spiker in NY a few short years ago.

 

can you elaborate?

Edited by Belo
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WNYBuckHunter Experienced

WNYBuckHunter

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because at the age of 3, we're taught violence is bad... but people are beaten and murdered every minute of the day. education, legislation. Sometimes it just doesn't matter.

 

 

True, but the choice of shooting 1 1/2 year old deer is in no way comparable to murder.

 

A fair comparison would be eating habits. We are becoming more and more educated that eating healthy is beneficial, and things look to be making a turn for the better overall. Theres no legislation on what we can and cant eat, only guidelines on what is or isnt good for us, and education, starting at a young age. Some people dont care, and thats their choice, which they are free to make.

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Five Seasons Grand Master

Five Seasons

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True, but the choice of shooting 1 1/2 year old deer is in no way comparable to murder.

 

A fair comparison would be eating habits. We are becoming more and more educated that eating healthy is beneficial, and things look to be making a turn for the better overall. Theres no legislation on what we can and cant eat, only guidelines on what is or isnt good for us, and education, starting at a young age. Some people dont care, and thats their choice, which they are free to make.

 

fair enough, although by the size of most americans i'm not sure you're right :)

 

and I guess my point was that with some things, it doesn't seem to matter what you tell people. Look at all the smokers still out there. Knowing, they're killing themselves.

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jjb4900 Newbie

jjb4900

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fair enough, although by the size of most americans i'm not sure you're right :)

 

and I guess my point was that with some things, it doesn't seem to matter what you tell people. Look at all the smokers still out there. Knowing, they're killing themselves.

wasn't McDonald's told to stop asking people if they wanted to "supersize it"' because people couldn't control themselves and had to say yes.

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WNYBuckHunter Experienced

WNYBuckHunter

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fair enough, although by the size of most americans i'm not sure you're right :)

 

and I guess my point was that with some things, it doesn't seem to matter what you tell people. Look at all the smokers still out there. Knowing, they're killing themselves.

 

If you look at the childhood obesity stats, youll see that the trend is going in the right direction. Its the same with ARs, through education, the younger hunters are seeing the light and passing more younger deer. Eventually, the old timers that dont buy into it, will be gone, and the yearling harvest will drop off more. Why? Education.

 

Deer are not going to be eradicated, so if it takes a bit more time, and more people continue to hunt and not get disgruntled because something was shoved down their throat, then thats fine by me.

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