Anyone have a problem with this post.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I would feel fine as long as they invited me over for a cook out with that wonderfully tender meat, I have taken my share in the past. when permits were hard to come by we really used to try to get the biggest one we could find. Now with fists full of permits it really isn't as big of an issue. I still look for the bigger does but if I can identify it isn't a BB and there isn't a bigger one around it will go down. Some of the best eating out there.

[phade]

you made it sound like i have shot multiple fawns. I pointed out that I shot one. When I was young. And learned from it. There is a HUGE difference between knowingly pulling the trigger and being inexperienced.

 

I'll leave it at this. Where I hunt, there's no excuse to shoot a fawn. However others choose to hunt then so be it. I do wonder how some of you would feel if this was the neighbor who hunts next to your property where you're investing money and time in food plots and trail grooming etc.

 

Yes there is. A sound biological one, in fact, knowing you hunt Wayne county. Keep your head in the sand...seems to be going great for you on this thread.

 

Shooting doe (and even buck) fawns has been advocated in management for some time now. The QDMA addresses this quite a bit and is an easy source to find out situations when such practices would be warranted.

 

Wayne County is one in which the deer population is deemed to be very high according to the DEC (granted, whether you take that as gospel is another topic, but in this situation, it is the best we have to go on). Wayne county also has some of the highest snowfall and hard winter weather in the state. Pair the two aspects together and shooting a fawn or two (especially doe fawn) is likely a scenario in which it would be green lighted by any deer manager who is worth a lick.

 

I find it absolutely hilarious that you mention food plots and money and time (assuming investing in QDM) yet you say there is no reason to shoot a fawn - especially given you are in Wayne County. This is up there with the fact I expect you to hunt with an Xbow once legal.

Edited December 19, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

As to two: you must have missed my last sentence in there. If I post it and others don't like it - sorry. But it's still posted. Everyone has a difference tolerance/interpretation of the topic of allowable or good taste photos. Just because you have a different one doesn't mean it is not tasteful or has no meaning. - all it means it that it is your interpretation. Sort of like opinion.

 

but as others have said (so I'm not alone) like it or not, what a hunter posts on the web does reflect on all of us.

 

No surprise his point was lost on you.

 

 

Way to side track another thread for attention.

 

Please explain the point to me then. I guess i'm just a dumb dumb. A fawn does not breed and eats less food. a 1.5 year old can breed, eats more and has at least been through a season. They have "some" experience. Do we all forget why we hunt? Or are some of you the type to pay $5k and shoot a huge pen raised deer tied to a rope?

 

And to all the high and mighty... where are all the pics of the fawns you've been shooting? Phade I didn't see any from you. Steve you either. I know you saw them. Why didn't you let the arrow or bullet fly? -honest question

[Uncle Nicky]

I like a good joke or laugh as much or more than the next guy, even in bad taste at times. But this is just plain sad.

[phade]

but as others have said (so I'm not alone) like it or not, what a hunter posts on the web does reflect on all of us.

 

 

Please explain the point to me then. I guess i'm just a dumb dumb. A fawn does not breed and eats less food. a 1.5 year old can breed, eats more and has at least been through a season. They have "some" experience. Do we all forget why we hunt? Or are some of you the type to pay $5k and shoot a huge pen raised deer tied to a rope?

 

And to all the high and mighty... where are all the pics of the fawns you've been shooting? Phade I didn't see any from you. Steve you either. I know you saw them. Why didn't you let the arrow or bullet fly? -honest question

 

I shot more fawns than you can shake a stick it. I've piled them up. I shot one this year in bow season.

 

How about this - shooting a fawn can not only be management wise - but shooting one early in the season is even better! Shocking!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I shot more fawns than you can shake a stick it. I've piled them up. I shot one this year in bow season.

 

How about this - shooting a fawn can not only be management wise - but shooting one early in the season is even better! Shocking!

I carry a little can of brown spray paint in my back pack for just such a situation,

[Five Seasons]

Does that part matter? The end result was still a dead fawn,

 

I do not care what others choose to shoot provided it is done legally, who the hell are you to say anything to your neighbor if he shoots what ever on HIS land. Oh I see you equate spending money on your land to owning the deer and controlling what gets killed around you.

 

Christ, relax man. We're having a discussion on the web. bs'ing. Did it really only take 2 days for the offseason to kick into gear?

 

I asked a question. Thanks for not answering it. I know plenty that feel THROUGH EDUCATION. We can grow bigger and better deer in NY. So NOT CARING what your neighbors do will affect you. Maybe you could sit down with them. have a beer. Offer to come to an agreement on what you'll shoot and what we shouldn't shoot. Maybe THROUGH EDUCATION you can convince him shooting the button buck will hurt his chances. at no point are you making him do anything. Maybe he wont even listen. But is it so hard to even consider sitting down and talking? I know there are many on this forum that have this relationship with their neighbors so chill the hell out.

[Five Seasons]

I shot more fawns than you can shake a stick it. I've piled them up. I shot one this year in bow season.

 

How about this - shooting a fawn can not only be management wise - but shooting one early in the season is even better! Shocking!

 

honestly I call bs. THe great white buck bed hunter shooting and piling up fawns huh? You're clearly trying to get under my skin so I'll let it pass...

 

better yet. post up the pics oh great one. You already said you don't care what others think.

[moog5050]

I have no expertise on this subject and have not studied it at all, but I am curious why some believe its better to shoot a doe that has proven its ability to survive and age (and breed) vs. one that may not make it through the first hard winter.  I realize a fawn has less meat and that's why I would prefer a larger doe, but if maintaining population is a goal, why not shoot a fawn that may not make it through the first winter?  Obviously some fawn, just like older does, will make it no matter what to keep the herd age structure in place.  I am just not sure I understand the argument of why its bad to shoot a fawn vs. an older doe (again other than less meat).  I assume its not because of sympathy for the smaller, less experienced animal.

Edited December 19, 2013 by moog5050

[steve863]

 

 

And to all the high and mighty... where are all the pics of the fawns you've been shooting? Phade I didn't see any from you. Steve you either. I know you saw them. Why didn't you let the arrow or bullet fly? -honest question

 

I don't like posting pictures of any kills, but you guys shouldn't dare me to show pictures.  Here is one I shot last year.  It was a button buck, too, so how about them apples??  No apologies to ANYONE either.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Moog--You hit it on the head. The opposition is purely emotion. Probably right up to the point they go out to dinner and order veal

[dhuntley2]

that's just as offensive to most hunter's as the picture that was posted.....good job.

If you want to take a pic of a doe or small buck for your personal memories, or any animal kill for that matter, that is great. Go ahead and do so. But to post it on the internet I just don't understand the hype about it. And if saying big woop to a picture of a doe offends you then you have some soft skin. And if seeing a picture of two dead deer is offensive maybe you shouldn't hunt. That's what that picture is, two dead deer. Yes the caption is tasteless but in no way is it offensive to me. Every one gets so offended over everything these days, grow a set and man up. I still don't see the hype about posting this picture its a doe and a fawn big woop.

Edited December 19, 2013 by dhuntley2

[Five Seasons]

I have no expertise on this subject and have not studied it at all, but I am curious why some believe its better to shoot a doe that has proven its ability to survive and age (and breed) vs. one that may not make it through the first hard winter.  I realize a fawn has less meat and that's why I would prefer a larger doe, but if maintaining population is a goal, why not shoot a fawn that may not make it through the first winter?  Obviously some fawn, just like older does, will make it no matter what to keep the herd age structure in place.  I am just not sure I understand the argument of why its bad to shoot a fawn vs. an older doe (again other than less meat).  I assume its not because of sympathy for the smaller, less experienced animal.

 

my guess?

 

the fawns going to die anyhow right? win win. The doe is just going to make 2 or 3 more deer next year. So if this is really about population control, then shoot the doe.

 

if it's about growing the herd? Then I can buy your argument. Hard to say which fawn has the genetics to survive and which doesn't though too. In Wayne county there's still enough crops and cover that I believe i fawn loss rate is pretty low.

[phade]

Christ, relax man. We're having a discussion on the web. bs'ing. Did it really only take 2 days for the offseason to kick into gear?

 

I asked a question. Thanks for not answering it. I know plenty that feel THROUGH EDUCATION. We can grow bigger and better deer in NY. So NOT CARING what your neighbors do will affect you. Maybe you could sit down with them. have a beer. Offer to come to an agreement on what you'll shoot and what we shouldn't shoot. Maybe THROUGH EDUCATION you can convince him shooting the button buck will hurt his chances. at no point are you making him do anything. Maybe he wont even listen. But is it so hard to even consider sitting down and talking? I know there are many on this forum that have this relationship with their neighbors so chill the hell out.

 

Some managers of deer/land actually target shooting a buck fawn for biological information to weigh against past records and also to indicate herd health. In select rare situations, a buck fawn can be harvested for the same reason a doe fawn can be - most often in high dpsm areas with bad winters. I'm not saying that is overly common, but the practice of shooting a doe fawn is much more common and logical than you think and Wayne Co is a poster child county for that scenario.

 

You said fawns eat less. Great. Fawns are also the FIRST (arguably with a very worn down buck from rut, I suppose, but for the 99% this is true) to die of winter mortality. They are the first. Read that again. The FIRST. They have a much higher rate of winter mortality than any other age class. By shooting them in legit scenarios, especially early, that food that they do it, is now available to deer that are more likely to survive the winter, namely 1.5s and up. Wayne county, with a supposed over-population of deer (hence the DMP numbers being amongst the highest in the state), and a very tough winter, make shooting fawns, especially doe fawns, a logical option.

 

Another scenario where doe fawns are targets - low dpsm areas. This is the primary target for managers because in such environments, these deer do not get to the necessary weight to be bred in that first fall. By targeting the doe fawns, say for ratio purposes or other management needs, they allow the adult does (loosely speaking the breeders 1.5 and up) to become pregnant and increase the herd numbers. this process repeats itself until the population is up and the ratio is more in line with target goals.

[Five Seasons]

I don't like posting pictures of any kills, but you guys shouldn't dare me to show pictures.  Here is one I shot last year.  It was a button buck, too, so how about them apples??  No apologies to ANYONE either.  

 

you're clearly as old and crotchity as I had pictured and now it's confirmed.

 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

honestly I call bs. THe great white buck bed hunter shooting and piling up fawns huh? You're clearly trying to get under my skin so I'll let it pass...

 

better yet. post up the pics oh great one. You already said you don't care what others think.

 

Oh I will. You opened the topic so beware...the pics might make you sad in the va-j.

[Doewhacker]

Christ, relax man. We're having a discussion on the web. bs'ing. Did it really only take 2 days for the offseason to kick into gear?

 

I asked a question. Thanks for not answering it. I know plenty that feel THROUGH EDUCATION. We can grow bigger and better deer in NY. So NOT CARING what your neighbors do will affect you. Maybe you could sit down with them. have a beer. Offer to come to an agreement on what you'll shoot and what we shouldn't shoot. Maybe THROUGH EDUCATION you can convince him shooting the button buck will hurt his chances. at no point are you making him do anything. Maybe he wont even listen. But is it so hard to even consider sitting down and talking? I know there are many on this forum that have this relationship with their neighbors so chill the hell out.

 

Button bucks disperse, you should know that but like many things concerning Deer management you don't. I think Phade has done a wonderfull job of pointing out how little you really do know.

 

As for the rest of your post...who cares what your opinion is.

[moog5050]

my guess?

 

the fawns going to die anyhow right? win win. The doe is just going to make 2 or 3 more deer next year. So if this is really about population control, then shoot the doe.

 

if it's about growing the herd? Then I can buy your argument. Hard to say which fawn has the genetics to survive and which doesn't though too. In Wayne county there's still enough crops and cover that I believe i fawn loss rate is pretty low.

 

 

If the goal is to reduce or control overpopulation, then shooting both the doe and fawn is best case scenario.  Still don't see why a fawn shouldn't be taken even under that scenario, but again, I may have a limited understanding here.

[moog5050]

All that said, my very first day of hunting ever, I passed a fawn in the first 15 minutes just because I didn't want my first deer to be one that I carried out like a handbag.  lol

[steve863]

you're clearly as old and crotchity as I had pictured and now it's confirmed.

 

 

Yes, I am surely NOT young anymore.  With age, however, one can more quickly determine who the dumb asses are.

[josephmrtn]

I always try to clean up my animals for the pics

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk

[Doewhacker]

Lets not forget that the deer in the OP were on LI, you know where they are calling in snipers to take out 3000 head of deer. Sounds like more guys down there need to kill more deer on a regular basis instead of playing TV hunter.

[Doewhacker]

All that said, my very first day of hunting ever, I passed a fawn in the first 15 minutes just because I didn't want my first deer to be one that I carried out like a handbag.  lol

 

Ain't you the size of Paul Bunyan? Hell you would need to hold out for a 250 pounder to make the proportions look right.

[Five Seasons]

Some managers of deer/land actually target shooting a buck fawn for biological information to weigh against past records and also to indicate herd health. In select rare situations, a buck fawn can be harvested for the same reason a doe fawn can be - most often in high dpsm areas with bad winters. I'm not saying that is overly common, but the practice of shooting a doe fawn is much more common and logical than you think and Wayne Co is a poster child county for that scenario.

 

You said fawns eat less. Great. Fawns are also the FIRST (arguably with a very worn down buck from rut, I suppose, but for the 99% this is true) to die of winter mortality. They are the first. Read that again. The FIRST. They have a much higher rate of winter mortality than any other age class. By shooting them in legit scenarios, especially early, that food that they do it, is now available to deer that are more likely to survive the winter, namely 1.5s and up. Wayne county, with a supposed over-population of deer (hence the DMP numbers being amongst the highest in the state), and a very tough winter, make shooting fawns, especially doe fawns, a logical option.

 

Another scenario where doe fawns are targets - low dpsm areas. This is the primary target for managers because in such environments, these deer do not get to the necessary weight to be bred in that first fall. By targeting the doe fawns, say for ratio purposes or other management needs, they allow the adult does (loosely speaking the breeders 1.5 and up) to become pregnant and increase the herd numbers. this process repeats itself until the population is up and the ratio is more in line with target goals.

 

Observationally, I don't believe we have a high fawn mortality. There is food EVERYWHERE. but this is just my opinion from personal observation and talking with other hunters.

 

My own belief is that if a fawn is going to starve, at least they had a shot. That's just mother nature. and again from personal observation I've never come across a 1.5 or older dead deer in the woods who appeared to die from starvation and I scout all year round. If i find dead deer, 90% of the time there's a leg blown off or arrow/gun wound.

[Five Seasons]

Oh I will. You opened the topic so beware...the pics might make you sad in the va-j.

 

that is not a distasteful pic.