Interesting Home Defense Topic

[Culvercreek hunt club]

yes, I have asked...I don't know what you think I alluded to about in home DPF, but I'm pretty sure I said all bets are off when you are in your own home....no need to post the law, I have it.

Apologies. It was another member. What part of justifiable use of DPF concerning rape don't you agree with me on then since you have it

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I'm surprised no one mentioned article 35.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/PEN/ONE/C/35/35.20

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he or she reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

Edited February 28, 2014 by ELMER J. FUDD

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I was going to Elmer. As an example though I used the rape instead because i thought it would be clearer that a rape was taking place as opposed to a robbery. Guess I was wrong

[Doc]

22 EEEK 

The 45 was developed for a reason and it is proven in battle against big determined warriors.  If you want to STOP the home invader this will work.  Base any round you get on the effectiveness of this round. 

 

I know a few people that I would be afraid to use a 22 on due to the ineffectiveness it would provide.  If it is winter and the perpetrator is wearing a few thick layers of clothes a 22 might not even penetrate.  Make no mistake home defense is defense of your life, use proper fire power to ensure your existence!  Bet my 22 LR will go through dry wall. 

 

 A 12 gauge pump action is the most distinct sound in the world of a criminal and when heard is usually followed by DONT SHOOT!  Usually you will hear I surrender or again PLEASE DONT SHOOT!  While a follow up shot might not be that easy for some, not many criminals will stick around after that cannon goes off. 

 

The other reason I do not like smaller rounds is that people tend to empty the clip.  (Spray and pray)  How many times I hear of law enforcement empty their guns in a shoot out.  Typical of some one under stress and they are suppose to be highly trained.  (No offense I understand!)  Much better off like hunting and taking one or two exact shots to end the confrontation and prevent any possible collateral damage. 

 

If I knew the person braking in was thin then maybe a 22 would work but I would not bet my life on it.

 

JMO

LOL .... That is something that I have always thought. Imagine hearing that sound of a pump shotgun being racked in the pitch black of the night. I suspect that the next sound you would hear would be the frantic retreat and then someone bailing out through a window, open or not (even if you are on the second story of the house). Likely no shots would ever be fired.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

LOL .... That is something that I have always thought. Imagine hearing that sound of a pump shotgun being racked in the pitch black of the night. I suspect that the next sound you would hear would be the frantic retreat and then someone bailing out through a window, open or not (even if you are on the second story of the house). Likely no shots would ever be fired.

or them opening fore in the direction of that sound

[jjb4900]

Apologies. It was another member. What part of justifiable use of DPF concerning rape don't you agree with me on then since you have it

I never came out and said you were 100% wrong, what I said was if you were involved in something like that there is no doubt you would find yourself in legal trouble....if all you needed to cover yourself was those few paragraphs in the Penal Law, the court systems might not be so backed up. If the law was that cut and dry, we wouldn't have lawyers "arguing" the law, all they would have to do is point at those few paragraphs and say "see, it says it right here that he could do it"...........

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Back in the day I was delivering a pizza in the hood. I went to the wrong door in a multi family house. I opened a door that seemed like another hallway. (Outside of apartment) imagine opening a door to a walk up attic. A woman yelled "you better speak or be shot". Then I heard a shotgun racking sound. I yelled back who I was and why. They just said that's for downstairs.

The next day in school, a guy I knew asked me about it. It turned out he was in the apartment and recognized my voice. They never saw me while I was there. The guy laughed at me for a week.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I never came out and said you were 100% wrong, what I said was if you were involved in something like that there is no doubt you would find yourself in legal trouble....if all you needed to cover yourself was those few paragraphs in the Penal Law, the court systems might not be so backed up. If the law was that cut and dry, we wouldn't have lawyers "arguing" the law, all they would have to do is point at those few paragraphs and say "see, it says it right here that he could do it"...........

Rather than talking in gray terms why not specify what you think that "legal trouble" would be. If a person acts reasonably and within the law there still could be a chance that an over zealous prosecutor could bring charges. You could incur legal fees to defend your actions. That is something that everyone has to weigh in their minds. I am prepared to take that risk in my home and out of it if I see someone getting raped. I have a very good friend of mine that was raped and two people in fact walked by and chose not to get involved. The guy was never found. Decide if you would want that for a member of your family or a friend.

 

For those that want to read for themselves. Here is the section for justifiable use of DPF against a commission of a rape.

 

2.  A  person  may  not  use deadly physical force upon another person

  under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:

    (a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is  using  or

  about  to  use  deadly  physical  force. Even in such case, however, the

  actor may not use deadly physical force if he or  she  knows  that  with

  complete  personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the

  necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is  under  no

  duty to retreat if he or she is:

    (i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or

    (ii)  a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police

  officer or a peace officer at the latter's direction, acting pursuant to

  section 35.30; or

    (He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing

  or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape,  forcible  criminal

  sexual act or robbery; or

    © He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing

  or  attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that

  the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision  three  of

  section 35.20.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[jjb4900]

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
( He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or
© He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that
the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of
section 35.20.

 

This is were it says you have no duty to "retreat", not that you can just use DPF, when you confront someone committing a "forcible rape" or any of the other crimes listed above.......I still believe you would have a problem if you snuck up on them and just killed them without making any other reasonable attempt to terminate it, but that's just my thought. 

Edited February 28, 2014 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person

under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:

(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or

about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the

actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with

complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the

necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no

duty to retreat if he or she is:

(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or

(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police

officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to

section 35.30; or

( He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing

or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal

sexual act or robbery; or

© He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing

or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that

the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of

section 35.20.

 

This is were it says you have no duty to "retreat", not that you can just use DPF, when you confront someone committing a "forcible rape" or any of the other crimes listed above.......I still believe you would have a problem if you snuck up on them and just killed them without making any other reasonable attempt to terminate it, but that's just my thought. 

nothing personal but you are not reading it correctly

[josephmrtn]

Also a 22 short barrel (revolver or semi, ive tried both) is loud as heck in a closed space (like a bedroom size)! Believe me my ears were ringing! The bad guy aint gonna kno its a 22 at least not from the noise he wont! i personaly would prob go w a 25. or 38. so as to have a little more stopping power as well as decently low recoil

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[Lawdwaz]

Also a 22 short barrel (revolver or semi, ive tried both) is loud as heck in a closed space (like a bedroom size)! Believe me my ears were ringing!

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2

 

Boy O Boy I'd like to hear the story behind THAT statement!!!

 

Ha...................kids!

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Boy O Boy I'd like to hear the story behind THAT statement!!!

 

Ha...................kids!

 

I am betting ...shooting rats in the barn.

[Lawdwaz]

I am betting ...shooting rats in the barn.

 

Mmmmmhuh. 

 

 

Read Little Joe's post a little closer....................................................

[ants]

Sounds like he found a new place to hang a poster…LOL!!

[Five Seasons]

interestingly enough I'll admit my weapon of choice went from my browning 12 gauge to a pistol when I bought one, but honestly a short barreled shotgun or carbine is so much more accurate than a pistol it's funny so many (myself included) choose a pistol. And with the short barrel your CCQ should remain relatively the same. I can see not wanting to use a 28" bird barrel of course.

 

now those who spend hours at the range may not fall into this category, but most of us are decent shots, but with adrenaline pumping and poor vision, man it seems like that .223 ar15 or short barrel turkey gun would be such a better choice than a recoil heavy pistol. Furthers the preference for buck shot too.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Belo

[ants]

I think there's little argument there. I chose the .40 glock because I also cc, and I wanted an easier to shoot handgun for the frame size. Like someone else mentioned, i'd rather put smaller caliber on target than miss with a larger. But for bedsize defense, cc doesn't matter. So go big frame, big round imho.

A 40 is a close second to the 45 IMHO. My cc is a Kahr 40 cal. I haven't  found a 45 that can compare to its size, conceal ability and comfort to carry. If I ever do I might just switch.

[BizCT]

Here's mine 357

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[Nomad]

All good points Belo. Each has its advantages and disadvantages ,my thoughts long barrel in a barricade type defensive position ,but where the handgun shines it it allows one to use his other hand for things like,flashlights,cell phones,door locks and so forth while still having control over the gun.

Much more portable as well, one can discreetly go to the door and the like, easier to keep out of view of the causal visitor/ workman .

There is no way I'd have people in my house ,from like a Craigslist ad, but after my Dad died I was meeting a ton at his almost empty house while selling off the last of his stuff,and one time during the estate sale I was glad I had it.

[Doc]

I'm thinking that part of the home defense system should be a light switch in the bedroom that turns on a hallway light. In fact it might even be useful to have a rather high powered spotlight that shines down the hallway, screwing up the view of any approaching intruder. Such a system would not only blind the intruder, but would also illuminate the hallway for target identification, and target acquisition. Such a system might even be as important as caliber or gauge selection. There might even be other electrical solutions that use motion sensors and such. Things to ponder.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Without question the best light to use is a high intensity strobe

[Nomad]

Without question the best light to use is a high intensity strobe

I'm a flashlight junkie... Surefire, Fenix, Olight,Quark, 4sevens,Streamlight and so forth. My current favorite hand light is a Fenix PD35 850 lumens with strobe ! The issue is that setting is to bright for indoors the blowback will blind yourself !

As I found out one morning as I got up work work and saw 2 guys outside checking mail boxes and then my daughters car,I lit them up, and half blinded myself.....

I now have it set on a lower setting for indoors.

Without question the high intensity strobe is the best for stopping cars when on the job, and walking the dog.......

[Doc]

Flashlights are good, but don't they provide an aiming spot for the bad-guy?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Flashlights are good, but don't they provide an aiming spot for the bad-guy?

Touché. Actually my cousin and I tested one out. Out concern was just as Larry had explained. (End up blinding both of you). It worked surprisingly well. Even though I new the general direction the light was coming from there was no way I was focusing on anything. I think a strobe is the answer if you are dark and need light to react.

Larry. I have to check the specs. I thought the one we use is LED and around 500k

[GreeneHunter]

I'm thinking that part of the home defense system should be a light switch in the bedroom that turns on a hallway light. In fact it might even be useful to have a rather high powered spotlight that shines down the hallway, screwing up the view of any approaching intruder. Such a system would not only blind the intruder, but would also illuminate the hallway for target identification, and target acquisition. Such a system might even be as important as caliber or gauge selection. There might even be other electrical solutions that use motion sensors and such. Things to ponder.

Good Thinking Doc ... I have a few solar powered motion sensor lights around the house and I always know when someone of something is moving in the backyard / sideyard / front yard or in the driveway !