Oneida Leasing Horrors

[Bone Seeker]

So as I mentioned earlier in a post, this is my first year leasing a 150 acre piece in NY. So I went out to turkey hunt the first few days, figuring deer hunters would also be hunting turkey there. Well I didn't run into anyone yet but my Tree Stand count is now at 10. Just walking around scouting my land I have found 5 lock ons with screw ins and 5 ladder stands, of course mostly right where I had pegged as a good spot.

This land hasn't been posted in years ,well not really...all the Posted signs have been ripped down or at least Ignored. I started posted the shit out of it, but I have no dilusiions that I can drive off all the Pirates on my lease. But its thwe tree stands that I have to deal with first. Heres my choices..what do you say?

 

I could take them all down and leave them at the base of the tree with a note to basically stay out!

or I could leave them up and use the frigging things when I go out there. I mean, they are all in great spots. Then when the owner of the stand comes and Im in his stand...I'M IN THE RIGHT..correct? MY land, then tell them to stay out.

Third option, I could take them down and give them al to the local game warden and leave a note to tell them where to get their stand back. And then have the warden tell them to stay out. Or

I could take the bottom section of the stands and leave a note with my number and have them call me for their stand. That way I have their name and contact info. But I really don't want to start out by taking anybodys stuff. Even if its on my lease land.

 

Question...will these hunters not be back til opening day?? Or will they be out there to scout their stands and see my notes I left to take them out. And do it before the season?

I dunno..but this is going to be a shitty year of booting people who have hunted there before I ever did, but hey...Leasing is the wave of the future and present of deer hunting if you don't own.

 

So...think twice before you try hunting on land that is clearly Posted!  How fun can that be when you have to look over your shoulder all the time.. because...Im coming!!

 

[SteveB]

Take them down and leave a note on the tree.

Leave a note at all access points also - may get seen and read.

Run an fyi in the local paper explaining also.

Look for a local FaceBook page to post there as well.

Leave note at local archery or gun shop.

Word will get out before deer season to most.

 

[ncountry]

       I would take them down and put a posted sign on the tree with your # on it. Look at the tax maps and call all the neighboring property owners letting them know whats up and where they can find their stands(might give you a chance for a face to face meet also). Explain to them that you realize it has been un-posted for years, but that you have paid to lease the property and would appreciate their respect, as friendly like as possible to start. Good neighbor relations  are priceless. They are more likely to stay off if you are someone they can relate to than some out of area jack#@#@# throwing your money around and booting them off "their" local lands.. Oh and do not forget to mention the 1/2 dozen trail cams you have placed(true or not) around the property.

 

 

[JFB]

I've been through this exact process. Unposted land and there was a rough crowd hunting it and the land owner finally got fed up and leased it to me. It took most of two seasons to get 90% of them out and there are still lingering problems at times. 

 

I suggest placing obvious signs along roads saying "hunting land now posted- members only", along with normal legal posted signs. The word will start to get out quick when they see the specific sign on the road about "leased land members only". I also suggest putting your phone number on the sign. Yes, you'll get lots of calls but at least you'll have the opportunity to get their name and then politely tell them that currently the lease membership is full but you'll keep their name just in case. This way, when you find them on your property, they've already waisted their one free warning. The guys who want their stands will call you and then ask to get their stands... which is obviously fine. The rest, I just left there and most were too lazy to go back and get them. But leaving them at the bottom with a note will probably just make it easy for the other hunters to steal honestly. You have to realize there are probably several hunting parties on the property and nothing says they all know or respect each other. 

 

Be prepared to call the sheriff. In my area, DEC are worthless. Police are often better at trespassing issues. I gave each person a free pass the first time I caught them... the second time I call 911... and yes they sometimes come back a second time. 

 

I'm also sure to tell the first offenders that I have dozens of hidden trail cams as I tell them to not come back (and I do have hidden cameras now). Make sure you maintain a presence in youth seasons, turkey, small game etc. 

 

Lastly, be sure the land owner does not have some special friends he lets hunt. Last thing you want is to upset the land owner and it becomes a head ache for him to deal with your trespassing issues. Hopefully the lease gives you the right to protect your interests. 

 

 

[jjb4900]

call the local authorities and see if you can dispose of the stands any way you see fit, shouldn't be your job to babysit someone else's property that is there illegally...if you want to be nice, so be it, if not, toss it out and use the property for the purpose you're paying to use it for.

[Bone Seeker]

Thanks for the replies. Yea, the DEC wont want anything to do with my problem. Im gonna post the hell out of it. Not sure if I want to leave my number or not. Someone made a good point. If I take a stand down and leave a note on it, whats gonna stop someone else from taking it and they will think I did. I don't want to be the out of stater coming in and ruining the hunting party, but I did pay for the hinting rights. The land owner cant even allow relatives to hunt it. Its all in the lease. But for years, people just throw the owners name out there as if they know him and hunt it.

Its gonna kill me to be all set in my stand opening day morning and start seeing flashlights coming thru the woods to these stands. That's when I will let them know in person to stay out.

I will have cameras too, so Ill know whos there. Everyone gets a first warning, then It gets ugly. Which I would rather avoid. Ill give it a shot this year, but If this bullshit is bad...Ill just wont renew the lease. In which case the Pirates, the trespassers, the hunters who just don't get it, will win. I guess Ownership is the only way to go with hunting land. Then I am the law.

[Daveboone]

When I bought my property, I looked online for the tax maps, and got the contact info for the neighbors. All appreciated me saying Hi. I didn't have any problems to address with them, but it opened the door for communication. That is where I would start...a friendly phone call to each neighbor, with an additional mention of...oh, by the way, you or any acquaintances wouldn't happen to have tree stands on the land, would you? It is now posted, and I need them removed.

They may very readily admit it, and don't hassle them, Just tell them you are preparing for next season and need them removed asap. Stop in for a friendly visit with them and just mention afterwards you are starting to pull the treestands, and any still on are going on Craigs LIst.

Recruit several reliable friends to be around each week or as often as possible prior to opening for a presence, and sure as hell have a full house for the opening days to reinforce your presence.

[JFB]

When I bought my property, I looked online for the tax maps, and got the contact info for the neighbors. All appreciated me saying Hi. I didn't have any problems to address with them, but it opened the door for communication. That is where I would start...a friendly phone call to each neighbor, with an additional mention of...oh, by the way, you or any acquaintances wouldn't happen to have tree stands on the land, would you? It is now posted, and I need them removed.

They may very readily admit it, and don't hassle them, Just tell them you are preparing for next season and need them removed asap. Stop in for a friendly visit with them and just mention afterwards you are starting to pull the treestands, and any still on are going on Craigs LIst.

Recruit several reliable friends to be around each week or as often as possible prior to opening for a presence, and sure as hell have a full house for the opening days to reinforce your presence.

 

I think this is good advice to approach the neighbors and hope for the best. Can't hurt. Just a simple introduction and a "oh by the way..." like Daveboone said. 

 

I'd not give up. Just count on two years of hassle and you may be pleasantly surprised if you fix it prior. But it's worth it. Also, don't put out a camera in plain view... or it's gone. It's part of the necessary work... instead of planting food plots, you need to run off people. But once you fix it, it stays fairly quiet after that. 

 

It's all about where they park cars or access from. Patrol and shut down the access points. Jot down license plates of suspicious cars and look for hunting items in them and see if they are parked nearby more than once, etc. 

[Bone Seeker]

I have aleady met one neighbor. I went over to ask permission to recover game on their land. I also met the guy who leases behind me. He the one who told me that everyone who goes to hunt my land just throws the landowner name out there like their buddies and hunts. The access is whats in my favor. Theres one road in and when my truck is there, people will know to stay out. Other than that they have to ask permission to cross other peoples land to get to mine. But as we all know..they don't ask, they just hunt.

Maybe ill just hunt this one year, get my 3 deer and leave town with a lot of new hunting stands??  No, I like this piece, its full of deer now and they haven't even had fawns yet.

Its gonna kill me to let that nice 2.5 yr old buck pass, only to have somebody else shoot it on MY lease. 

 

The times I want to let my land sit quiet before I hunt it are times I really don't want other people out there stirring it up. hard to manage land that you don't live on.

[Nomad]

You have got good advice. What I do is go take pictures of all trucks parked around my spot,with plate # that way when you see them run off and get in a white f150 you already got the plate # .

For 25 years I had little issues at all,last year in deer season guys parked at the property line,walked off the road then cut in to,ours once I knew what was going on I made sure I got their plate for next time.

Your guys DEC officers sure are differant then around me. Mine will come and arrest as long as I will press charges,they've none night opps,robo deer and more simply because I told them about the issues.

This turkey season I'll be hunting turkey hunters. They come in the same way and set up on my side,and I got plenty of posted signs up. I have a friend and his son Hunting my spot he saw them 2xs now.

Next week end I'm walking out of the brush knocking over their decoys and stapling some posted signs to them,calling DEC first so they ll be at the road,it's a good 20 minute walk out so it's not like they can make a fast get away. And no I won't be alone, but they'll stay back about 100 yards with a nice rest......

[greenecounty]

Next week end I'm walking out of the brush knocking over their decoys and stapling some posted signs to them,calling DEC first so they ll be at the road,it's a good 20 minute walk out so it's not like they can make a fast get away. And no I won't be alone, but they'll stay back about 100 yards with a nice rest......

[Birddogg]

Yeah Larry you can't shoot people for trespassing!

[moog5050]

Take only the bottom portion of the stand and a leave a note with your number so that they can come and get the bottom after they remove the stand.  Forces them to call and you can obtain their info and let them know your have exclusive rights.  They will not be happy but you will make your point.  I wouldn't hang your stands until you get the trespassers out as your stands  may disappear quickly with a bunch of ticked off trespassers.

 

If they return, call police or DEC.

[Nomad]

Yeah Larry you can't shoot people for trespassing!

Sure you can. Site alignment ,breath control,trigger squeeze same as shooting anything really.

But I have no plans to, however you need to show people you'er serious. They know full well what they er doing its well posted. That's a pretty in your face action on their part, I respond in kind.

Add in they set up right along one of our sanctuary so they'll see deer coming in and out,and get ideas for deer season . The only way some people learn is to make it a bigger risk then the deer/ turkey is worth.

We put in a lot of time and money into the land,I just spent a few hundred on new posted signs and that's not counting all the plywood and posts I have yet to buy. Building brides across ditches and creeks,tower blinds,bulldozing trails, mowing just a few things we do for hunting the spot. We don't allow walking around,drives and so forth,limit the size of bucks one can shoot and on and on and on.

So ya when people think they can just waltz on over and do as they please ,well I can't allow that.

[Meat Manager]

Sure you can. Site alignment ,breath control,trigger squeeze same as shooting anything really.

But I have no plans to, however you need to show people you'er serious. They know full well what they er doing its well posted. That's a pretty in your face action on their part, I respond in kind.

Add in they set up right along one of our sanctuary so they'll see deer coming in and out,and get ideas for deer season . The only way some people learn is to make it a bigger risk then the deer/ turkey is worth.

We put in a lot of time and money into the land,I just spent a few hundred on new posted signs and that's not counting all the plywood and posts I have yet to buy. Building brides across ditches and creeks,tower blinds,bulldozing trails, mowing just a few things we do for hunting the spot. We don't allow walking around,drives and so forth,limit the size of bucks one can shoot and on and on and on.

So ya when people think they can just waltz on over and do as they please ,well I can't allow that.

I'm pretty sure "I manage for quality whitetails on that property" is not going to be justification enough to invoke the necessity defense:

"Such conduct is necessary as an emergency measure to avoid an imminent public or private injury which is about to occur by reason of a situation occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor, and which is of such gravity that, according to ordinary standards of intelligence and morality, the desirability and urgency of avoiding such injury clearly outweigh the desirability of avoiding the injury sought to be prevented by the statute defining the offense in issue."

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[greenecounty]

Add in they set up right along one of our sanctuary so they'll see deer coming in and out,and get ideas for deer season . The only way some people learn is to make it a bigger risk then the deer/ turkey is worth.

 

oh good...a 100% emotionally driven guy shooting people over animals and going against any defense laws .... might as well start microwaving the popcorn - this will look great in the papers

[phade]

Holy crap, the internetz is difficult.

 

I think Larry is pretty clear he won't shoot people, he's just saying you need to take prompt actions to address trespassers and poachers, etc. Make the trouble of doing such more than the deer is worth to those hunters/poachers, etc.

[Meat Manager]

Holy crap, the internetz is difficult.

I think Larry is pretty clear he won't shoot people, he's just saying you need to take prompt actions to address trespassers and poachers, etc. Make the trouble of doing such more than the deer is worth to those hunters/poachers, etc.

Where in any of this is that clear.

He said he is hunting hunters and will have someone with a good rest covering his 6 from sniper range.

That was all after adapting much less eloquently the "full metal jacket" quote about shooting women and children "easy, just don't lead em so much."

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Edited May 13, 2014 by Meat Manager

[phade]

Look, if you thought he was serious, you would have contacted the authorities because he "threatened" to shoot people. He distinctly said he has no plans to.

 

You didn't. You know he's not being serious. Come off of it.

Edited May 13, 2014 by phade

[Five Seasons]

So you're leasing it... so I'd be a little careful with the "I own it" statement. Secondly you're leasing some land that sounds like it was fair game for some time. Meaning, I think you owe a note at least for the hunters to recover their property. It will give you the opportunity to introduce yourself and let them know you mean business.

 

Finally, sounds like you're in for an uphill battle and it stinks your leased land has been hunted (maybe even heavily). I think the dream lease for me is the deer sanctuary that is being hunted by just me and maybe 1 or 2 others for the first time in years! A treasure chest haha.

[phade]

Out of all the properties I have gained access to in my life, rarely have I seen a property not hunted.

 

The only times would be when the landowner is attached to the land and on it often and makes an attempt at keeping others out.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've been told "You can hunt it all you want. Nobody has permission to hunt the property but you and nobody has been back there in years."

 

I promptly find tree stands on said property.

[Five Seasons]

and hence why it's a dream!

[chiefbkt]

It seems like the first year on your lease will be the sacrificial lamb. You will probably spend more time chasing people around than you will hunting, which blows. I know when we acquired a new ~250 acre parcel at camp we posted the heck out of it, tore down all the wooden stands that were present, took down all metal stands and left them at the base of tree with the ladder missing and left our contact info, and spent most of the first year pissing off people who had hunted there the previous 20+ years. Most of them were good about it and called us. Some of them have since joined the club. The rest, bought new stands and put them up where the old one was and padlocked it. Needless to say we own a master key for all locks and we promptly removed the stand and left our contact info in its place. DEC got involved and the 2 guys were warned to stay off the property. That first year we ended up patrolling the property line more than hunting. That was 10 years ago and we've had no issues since then. Hope this isn't what happens in your case.