Never ceases to amaze me...

[VT Outfitter]

Those that would defending the sale of illegal bait products in local stores with big buck packaging, are without a doubt, one of these three things.

1. A poacher that baits with these products because they don't know any other way.

2. Someone that is a hunter, but not for deer, and could care less about deer hunting.

3. An anti hunter, that will support anything leading to breaking hunting laws, even if its a back door sneaky move.

 

 

[YFKI1983]

This stuff being allowed to be sold in stores in NY almost makes me feel like the DEC wants people to bait so they can write more fines out.. who knows. You know cops need to meet a quota, maybe they do too.

[jrm]

Those that would defending the sale of illegal bait products in local stores with big buck packaging, are without a doubt, one of these three things.

1. A poacher that baits with these products because they don't know any other way.

2. Someone that is a hunter, but not for deer, and could care less about deer hunting.

3. An anti hunter, that will support anything leading to breaking hunting laws, even if its a back door sneaky move.

 

I agree that the packaging is incredibly wrong. I find it puzzling that a product can marketed and sold for an illegal purpose. But how would you go about stopping the sale of these kind of products? I have never bought one or looked at the ingredient list - someone else mentioned it is basically corn. 

 

If the packaging is "regulated" the same product will still be on the shelves in a different "compliant" package. As long as a product sells, the stores will put it on the shelf. That _might_ cut down on its use by people who "just want to feed the pretty deer" but won't do anything about those who use it for hunting (because they already know it is not permitted in NY).

 

I am not defending the practice of baiting because it is not legal. I don't consider myself knowledgable enough about the practice to attack or defend it where it is legal. 

 

I will, however, defend the right of a retailer to market and sell a legal product without having themselves or their customers targeted and harassed by law enforcement. 

 

There are legal means of regulating or prohibiting the sale or items. If this product should not be on the shelf (and I agree that it shouldn't in its current form) then there is a process to handle that. Just as we cannot pick and choose the laws we would like to obey, we can't invent new rules out of thin air. The implications for many other products are obvious.

 

Obviously, someone in the DEC and Albany has dropped the ball on this one. I would still like to see a credible plan for regulating the sale of "corn."

[jrm]

,or even leave a few piles of corn or a bail of hay or 2 out on the edge of fields that hunt

 

Deer will eat hay? I sometimes leave a few bales out for my horses (during the summer - I don't have my horses on the property during hunting season). Will that attract deer? Or will the horses in the adjacent stalls scare them off. Never thought of that before.

[Pygmy]

Yup..Just what we need...More regulations.

You must be a staunch Obama supporter.

[Doc]

 

Obviously, someone in the DEC and Albany has dropped the ball on this one. I would still like to see a credible plan for regulating the sale of "corn."

There is no reason to regulate corn. For one thing, most of the deer bait being sold is not corn. For another thing those that may be conducting an out-of-state hunt may want to buy the product here before they leave. They should have the ability to do that. Also it must be remembered that the product has not been deemed illegal. It is the act that is deemed illegal. Someone said that calling for these kinds of regulations had a parallel to gun control. I didn't catch on when I read that, but now thinking about it, he had a valid point. We are calling for establishing an illegal status for a "thing" when in reality it is the illegal use of the product that needs regulation. Also, legal users of corn and mineral blocks do not need another layer of regulation to go through. If we are serious about eliminating baiting, then enforcement of that law is the answer.

 

There is another aspect of all this that should be addressed. That is for people to stop justifying and ignoring law-breakers when they spot them, regardless of whether you agree with the law or not. Baiting is a very visible, blatant, and obvious violation. It is very hard for someone to conduct baiting without someone eventually seeing or hearing about it. Enforcement would be a whole lot effective if people would report law breaking when they see it. We don't need additional regs.... just better enforcement of what's already on the books.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

Obviously, someone in the DEC and Albany has dropped the ball on this one. I would still like to see a credible plan for regulating the sale of "corn."

Why? Are the resident hunters in NY not allowed to hunt in other locations? I am not going to sit here and try to tell everyone that I believe that the majority of these products are traveling out of state to legal baiting states. I can do that because we all know it is mostly bull. But in the same breath I am very hesitant to pass any more regulations or laws when the DEC has demonstrated to me personally that they have no interest in following up on the ones that they do have. Same bait location, built structure, regularly filled and three complaints called in....Almost seems like they are turning a blind eye to it unless it comes in conjunction with another violation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Those that would defending the sale of illegal bait products in local stores with big buck packaging, are without a doubt, one of these three things.

1. A poacher that baits with these products because they don't know any other way.

2. Someone that is a hunter, but not for deer, and could care less about deer hunting.

3. An anti hunter, that will support anything leading to breaking hunting laws, even if its a back door sneaky move.

I can think of other reasons to opposed yet more senseless regulations.

[jrm]

Yup..Just what we need...More regulations.

You must be a staunch Obama supporter.

 

 

Not sure if you are directing that comment at me... if so, I take exception to such an insult.

 

I am not for more regulation. I could care less if the product is sold or not. My point is that it is wrong to demonize or complain about people purchasing a legal product or the stores that sell it. Neither is doing anything wrong. 

 

I don't think there should be regulation on hammers. If you buy a hammer, that's your business. If you try to kill someone with it, then there are already laws to address that situation.

 

When I wrote about Albany dropping the ball... I meant that facetiously. As the following sentence indicates, it would be impossible to "regulate" corn (or whatever feed is in the package). 

Edited July 28, 2014 by jrm

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Kind of a biased source but give a fair idea of what is allowed and not allowed in other states.

 

http://lucky-buck.com/state-regulation-list-baiting-feeding

 

[First-light]

I just recently saw a picture of a home-made feeder. 8 inch pipe about 8' long zip tied to a pine tree. The guy filled it up and had something on the bottom to regulate the corn coming out. Thing was only one guy posted baiting is illegal. Everyone else liked the idea or thought you could bait. They even went so far to say the DEC encourages the baiting. This is in a high density deer area downstate.

[Two Track]

I once heard of someone hunting under their pine apple tree in NY.

 

I have yet to see one of NY's pine trees sprouting apples.

 

Seen a few apple trees in the woods, but not by the pines, so I guess you know how that guy's tree came to be.

[jrm]

I just recently saw a picture of a home-made feeder. 8 inch pipe about 8' long zip tied to a pine tree. The guy filled it up and had something on the bottom to regulate the corn coming out. Thing was only one guy posted baiting is illegal. Everyone else liked the idea or thought you could bait. They even went so far to say the DEC encourages the baiting. This is in a high density deer area downstate.

 

I realize hunters should know better.

 

I'm on Long Island and we have some high density deer areas. I have heard of people feeding the deer because they a) think they are doing a good thing to help a "hungry" animal or want the "pretty" deer to be a regular visitor to the yard. They have no interest in hunting (some actually oppose it).

 

When I explain that feeding is illegal, they don't believe me. When I prove it, they stare with incomprehension. They can't wrap their head around the concept.

[wooly]

Hmmmmm..., what if a fella were to dump a 50lb bag of corn in front of his stand and cover it up with an inch of dirt, or maybe some of those leaves you've all been raking off the trail?

Technically, it would become a micro plot at that point correct?

 

 

[jjb4900]

Hmmmmm..., what if a fella were to dump a 50lb bag of corn in front of his stand and cover it up with an inch of dirt, or maybe some of those leaves you've all been raking off the trail?

Technically, it would become a micro plot at that point correct?

just seeds that never sprouted....not your fault.

[wooly]

just seeds that never sprouted....not your fault.

That's what I thought.

No law against being a bad farmer,lol

[ncountry]

Hmmmmm..., what if a fella were to dump a 50lb bag of corn in front of his stand and cover it up with an inch of dirt, or maybe some of those leaves you've all been raking off the trail?

Technically, it would become a micro plot at that point correct?

 

LOL. That is funny .. I can picture it now..."What do you mean, corn will not sprout in Nov?" 

Maybe a person could get a destroy permit even, because the deer are digging up and destroying your  seed.

[Bone Seeker]

In New Hampshire you apply for a baiting permit. This allows you to bait Bear and then Deer during certain times of the season. Basically bow and early Muzzy. You must have a permit and landowner permission to do it. I post deer pics here that I get over feed, but I can honestly say I have NEVER shot an animal over feed I have left for them. I do it for pictures, which still requires the baiting permit. Even when I go on a guided hunt, don't ask me to sit by a feeder for deer.  

[VT Outfitter]

I agree that the packaging is incredibly wrong. I find it puzzling that a product can marketed and sold for an illegal purpose. But how would you go about stopping the sale of these kind of products? I have never bought one or looked at the ingredient list - someone else mentioned it is basically corn. 

 

If the packaging is "regulated" the same product will still be on the shelves in a different "compliant" package. As long as a product sells, the stores will put it on the shelf. That _might_ cut down on its use by people who "just want to feed the pretty deer" but won't do anything about those who use it for hunting (because they already know it is not permitted in NY).

 

I am not defending the practice of baiting because it is not legal. I don't consider myself knowledgable enough about the practice to attack or defend it where it is legal. 

 

I will, however, defend the right of a retailer to market and sell a legal product without having themselves or their customers targeted and harassed by law enforcement. 

 

There are legal means of regulating or prohibiting the sale or items. If this product should not be on the shelf (and I agree that it shouldn't in its current form) then there is a process to handle that. Just as we cannot pick and choose the laws we would like to obey, we can't invent new rules out of thin air. The implications for many other products are obvious.

 

Obviously, someone in the DEC and Albany has dropped the ball on this one. I would still like to see a credible plan for regulating the sale of "corn."

 

It is the same problem here in Vermont. Hypothetically, if these bags of bait and salt blocks with bucks on the rapper were taken out of stores in states that baiting is illegal, where would the would be poachers that bait deer get their bait? A grain & feed store sells the same product for cattle, horses, pigs and such. Tractor Supply sells horse and pig feed too. If the culprit packaging bait products were eliminated from sport shops, would it lower baiting offenses? Probably not.

 

If you have some scrap steel/metal to bring to the scrap yard that you found while cleaning up, when you sell the steel for money here in Vermont you have to show your drivers license and they photocopy it. They also keep a list of what it was for steel or copper and when you brought it in. This monitoring of metal sales and purchases was started because people were being robbed by metal thieves. The thieves would gut out summer homes for copper, or cut catalytic converters from new car parking lots, things of this nature. Then bring in the metal for cash.

 

Who would be offended if they were asked for their drivers license when they purchased corn, grain salt blocks, ect....the poacher that baits deer, the elderly couple that feeds the pretty deer, or the farmer that needs corn for the pigs. Only one of these 3 is legal.  Would this monitoring of the license for feed sales stop baiting wild game like deer?    

 

What other use of  "deer cocaine" or a bag of "buck Bran" or any of these bait products readily available at Dick's Sporting goods, Bass Pro, Cabelas, Gander Mountain ect...?

 

[ncountry]

I'm a little different I guess. I would be offended if they asked for my ID. This coming from a guy that refuses to pre-pay for gas. If they will not take my debit card at the pump, I refuse to go in(1/2 the time I want something in the store anyway, but it is just the principle) . I will drive to the next station that will trust me or take payment at the pump..lol

[VT Outfitter]

I'm a little different I guess. I would be offended if they asked for my ID. This coming from a guy that refuses to pre-pay for gas. If they will not take my debit card at the pump, I refuse to go in(1/2 the time I want something in the store anyway, but it is just the principle) . I will drive to the next station that will trust me or take payment at the pump..lol

I hate having to prepay for gas, and I too have driven off to the next station. I get a bit annoyed when a store asks for my zip code too. My point I was trying to make is that if you are buying a product with legal intentions, like when you buy ammo from Walmart or coleman fuel, you have to show your id. Just a question, why would you be buying bait at a shop, when you would be asked for your license, and get offended for that request?

[ncountry]

I hate having to prepay for gas, and I too have driven off to the next station. I get a bit annoyed when a store asks for my zip code too. My point I was trying to make is that if you are buying a product with legal intentions, like when you buy ammo from Walmart or coleman fuel, you have to show your id. Just a question, why would you be buying bait at a shop, when you would be asked for your license, and get offended for that request?

I do not provide ID to buy ammo or fuel..Bunch of bs ..imho. if I was buying corn at a shop it would be because it was cheap or I didn't feel like making another stop to buy food for my pigs,goats, or chickens. And it isn't any of their dam business who I am.

[Cabin Fever]

About 3 years ago, I was sitting in my stand and watched something yellow come bobbing towards me through the thicket. A squirrel hopped out into the open and I could see it was carrying an ear of corn. It was a dead afternoon, so it kept me amused watching it hop around burying it in the leaves in several places, before digging it up again, and finding another/better spot for it. Probably did this 10x! It finally decided to bury the ear of corn ~10 yards directly in front of my stand, in the middle of the deer path! It kept looking up at me as it was covering the corn up with leaves, as if it thought it was doing me a favor! I couldn't help but chuckle, and think, "Dude! Are you trying to get me into trouble!?!?" Could just see myself trying to convince an ECON officer what REALLY happened!   Damn squirrels!! LOL

[Doc]

About 3 years ago, I was sitting in my stand and watched something yellow come bobbing towards me through the thicket. A squirrel hopped out into the open and I could see it was carrying an ear of corn. It was a dead afternoon, so it kept me amused watching it hop around burying it in the leaves in several places, before digging it up again, and finding another/better spot for it. Probably did this 10x! It finally decided to bury the ear of corn ~10 yards directly in front of my stand, in the middle of the deer path! It kept looking up at me as it was covering the corn up with leaves, as if it thought it was doing me a favor! I couldn't help but chuckle, and think, "Dude! Are you trying to get me into trouble!?!?" Could just see myself trying to convince an ECON officer what REALLY happened!   Damn squirrels!! LOL

A perfect frame-up. He knew what he was doing. Revenge of the prey!

[YFKI1983]

I hate having to prepay for gas, and I too have driven off to the next station. I get a bit annoyed when a store asks for my zip code too. My point I was trying to make is that if you are buying a product with legal intentions, like when you buy ammo from Walmart or coleman fuel, you have to show your id. Just a question, why would you be buying bait at a shop, when you would be asked for your license, and get offended for that request?

FYI. Some credit/debit cards require zip code to be processed if you're purchasing more than X amount.