On Ethics

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thats killing something that another animal hunted..Not you  .All you did was load a gun and kill it. You hunt that animal.Mono to Mono and kill it? Then call yourself a hunter.  You know as well as i do that there are very few ranches that dont have 100's of acres and animals that without cam's you will never even see. Deer inside are 3 times more jumpy around people than wild deer because they have been around humans.and i can tell you for a fact that i can show you many places thats harder to kill a deer inside than it is outside.

Regardless as to the Op

 

Legal does not make it hunting in my eyes and eyes of many. Blowing an animal out of a tree or off a bait pile. Yup that took alot of hunting skills!

 

But using that line of thought, any animal that was spooked to you, and you killed it, was not hunted by you.

 

Deer drives are not hunting? How about sitting in a stand waiting to ambush a deer thats moving through a heavily used funnel? How is that different than killing a deer thats on its way to a bait pile? What about hunting orchards, or food plots, etc etc etc? Now lets get away from deer, how about bird hunting? How do you quantify that? They are found and flushed by the dog, is that hunting?

 

Ive been to deer farms, watched my kids feed monster bucks apple slices, pet them, etc. I know of a local deer farm that raises the deer in a barn with a small pen right behind his house and a few other houses, then trucks them over to his 300 acre fenced in lot when someone is on their way to purchase their animal and shoot it. Thats the kind of stuff I dont call hunting. If you are talking about 1000+ acres fenced, with deer living in there, not raised in a barn or that are accustomed to contact with humans in a non predator/prey situation, then its a different story to me.

 

As far as the OP goes, you can compare Ethics to Laws, but you cannot construe them to be the same, or even similar. One is a set of rules laid down by the government, the other is a set of personal values held by an individual.

[BizCT]

Well you step through a resturant window after having shot him through the bar window with the 12ga taking out his shoulder  new years eve 1984...then you find where he crawled behind the bar to the kitchen door and tried to crawl out the back kitchen door but could go no further...you step through the waiters dinning room door walk into the kitchen where the guy was on the floor and leaning aganst I believe the stove...you load up two more shells in the dbl barrel in front of him as he begged.... looking at the guy from just a few feet away and as your wife enters from the bar door say "This is her fault" then pulled both triggers....it pretty much cut him in two ....Biz... remember ppl live in this area it was in the papers and there was a man hunt NYS failed miserably when it came to any justice here...BTW his wife was not my mother...

 

Gotcha. When you said cut in two, I thought a machete or chainsaw was involved.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

with no ill intent Grow. You really need to write a book. I don't know if you drink or fish and you probably think too poorly of my "internet self" but I'd love to go out on a boat with you on a nice saturday.

 I bet most of us/those that bicker on here would have a bunch of laughs over a few beers and some burgers on the grill.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doc]

Well Pumpkin, It looks like its you that brought me and my successful deer farm into the conversation..Again! We all know what you were replying to and we all know the use of examples because the 2 i wrote are only a couple off a long list of things that hurt hunting way more than high fence.  Flame on!!!

Its also kinda funny how you could have any kind of an opinion about something you have never done and are clueless about. But again..Just have to look where its coming from!

Well oh mystic mind-reader, it's time for you to go in and give your powers a tune-up. I happened to have been talking about what is referred to as a canned hunt. Is that what you are really running. Maybe that's why you seem to always be on the defensive even regarding replies that have nothing to do with you. For crying out loud, lighten up a bit. Like I said not everything is about you and little deer zoo.

[growalot]

No real life not a movie plot...

Now seeing this thread went down the rabbit hole...Belo...wink...let me push it further

I firmly believe that having to have a hunting license to by any weapon would have helped to prevent this...he never hunted a day in his life...never owned a weapon before this...bought the shot gun just to kill the guy....yes could have found one some other way..but may have slowed him down enough to get police to believe me and the psychiatrist that asked me to go to the cops(his wife's psychiatrist)

If nothing else that course length could be a bit of a deterent

Edited December 2, 2014 by growalot

[Two Track]

 

Culver Creek Hunt Club

Posted Today, 08:19 AM

 Sounds like those "others" ought to step up their game. So in your view a guy who buys his tags and uses a deer or two a year for themselves, should just quit hunting because others have a hard time shooting a deer? Sounds like entitlement and hunter welfare to me.

 

I was brought up only hunt what you are willing to eat and take only what is needed (numbers wise, not half a deer and toss the rest)

 

I have no problems  with someone donating a deer, but fill all your tags and donate all the meat when it is all from from public lands seems like abusing the right.  My dad donates a deer or two a year, but this is from private land and using DMAP tags for crop damage and over-population on his friend's family farm.

 

Some of us work 5, and occasionally 6, days per week and have other responsibilities that may further take time that reduce time spent afield.

 

Not everyone works close to home. 

Not everyone is allowed to possess a firearm on company property (including in your locked car in company parking lot) for an early morning on the way to work or way home from work hunt.

Not everyone bow hunts or has a muzzle-loader to hunt all deer seasons, or has the time and money to hunt both the northern and southern zones. 

Not everyone can afford trail cams to monitor the wildlife for you.

Not everyone can afford hunting club memberships and exclusive hunting rights.

Not everyone has access to private lands.

 

I am not saying everyone is entitled to getting a deer on public land, but everyone deserves a fair chance.

 

If you do not eat venison, why hunt to tag out early breaking up herds and normal patterns for everyone else.  Take one early and wait to late in season to fill the rest for all you are going to do is donate it.  Enjoy hunting but don't need the meat, make it a challenging hunt for a very large deer to donate. Taking more than you need from public lands seems like greed to me, but that is how I was raised.

 

Not saying don't help those who need it, some people are on that border of struggling paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and need a deer to cut their grocery costs and get through the winter, but earn too much for any assistance.  My family went through times like that when I was kid, dad's deer got us through the winter.

 

Taking 5 deer on public land could be reducing the chances for a hunter who is struggling and is working long hours.  But again that is how I was raised.

 

 

[Doc]

I was brought up only hunt what you are willing to eat and take only what is needed (numbers wise, not half a deer and toss the rest)

 

I have no problems  with someone donating a deer, but fill all your tags and donate all the meat when it is all from from public lands seems like abusing the right.  My dad donates a deer or two a year, but this is from private land and using DMAP tags for crop damage and over-population on his friend's family farm.

 

Some of us work 5, and occasionally 6, days per week and have other responsibilities that may further take time that reduce time spent afield.

 

Not everyone works close to home. 

Not everyone is allowed to possess a firearm on company property (including in your locked car in company parking lot) for an early morning on the way to work or way home from work hunt.

Not everyone bow hunts or has a muzzle-loader to hunt all deer seasons, or has the time and money to hunt both the northern and southern zones. 

Not everyone can afford trail cams to monitor the wildlife for you.

Not everyone can afford hunting club memberships and exclusive hunting rights.

Not everyone has access to private lands.

 

I am not saying everyone is entitled to getting a deer on public land, but everyone deserves a fair chance.

 

If you do not eat venison, why hunt to tag out early breaking up herds and normal patterns for everyone else.  Take one early and wait to late in season to fill the rest for all you are going to do is donate it.  Enjoy hunting but don't need the meat, make it a challenging hunt for a very large deer to donate. Taking more than you need from public lands seems like greed to me, but that is how I was raised.

 

Not saying don't help those who need it, some people are on that border of struggling paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and need a deer to cut their grocery costs and get through the winter, but earn too much for any assistance.  My family went through times like that when I was kid, dad's deer got us through the winter.

 

Taking 5 deer on public land could be reducing the chances for a hunter who is struggling and is working long hours.  But again that is how I was raised.

I think we are forgetting the basic goals of the antlerless deer permit system. I think if you ask the DEC, they'll tell you that it is for herd management, not for filling freezers .... lol. So, a permit issued is intended to be a permit filled, regardless of who or how many hunters fill them. I believe that is what the permit sign-overs are all about, and even the deer donation program. Everything is focused on deer harvest and attempted herd management, and that applies whether the hunting area is public or private.

 

As far as the notion that food gathering is the only reason for hunting, I really don't completely agree with that. I have spent some time in my younger years hunting woodchucks, but never was able to get myself to eat one. But the farmers who used to slam their equipment over those holes sure did thank me. I also do some varmint hunting, but am not looking forward to a fox rump roast. And I used to shoot rats at the dump ...... no meal for me there. I don't know how many people enjoy a nice stuffed Thanksgiving crow. Hunting has many reasons for justification, and food gathering is only one of them. 

[growalot]

As a land owner that is surround by great state land...in that some is walking distance away...and hold huge deer due to terrain...I refuse to hunt public land. I just do not consider it fair play for me. That has nothing to do with ethics...just my personal sportsmanship.

[Doewhacker]

Thats killing something that another animal hunted..Not you .All you did was load a gun and kill it. You hunt that animal.Mono to Mono and kill it? Then call yourself a hunter. You know as well as i do that there are very few ranches that dont have 100's of acres and animals that without cam's you will never even see. Deer inside are 3 times more jumpy around people than wild deer because they have been around humans.and i can tell you for a fact that i can show you many places thats harder to kill a deer inside than it is outside.

Regardless as to the Op

Legal does not make it hunting in my eyes and eyes of many. Blowing an animal out of a tree or off a bait pile. Yup that took alot of hunting skills!

An animal raised on a farm is always considered a farm animal no matter how big a pen you let it loose in. I have been to preserves with my dogs to shoot Pheasant and you can literally walk up to these farm animals(deer, elk ect) and shoot them. It is not hunting nor will it ever be no matter how often or loud you cry.

[nyantler]

This can be more enjoyable watching from the sidelines...  ... just me and my like button!

[Two Track]

 

Culver Creek Hunt Club

Posted Today, 08:19 AM

 Sounds like those "others" ought to step up their game. So in your view a guy who buys his tags and uses a deer or two a year for themselves, should just quit hunting because others have a hard time shooting a deer? Sounds like entitlement and hunter welfare to me.

 

I was brought up only hunt what you are willing to eat and take only what is needed (numbers wise, not half a deer and toss the rest)

 

I have no problems  with someone donating a deer, but fill all your tags and donate all the meat when it is all from from public lands seems like abusing the right.  My dad donates a deer or two a year, but this is from private land and using DMAP tags for crop damage and over-population on his friend's family farm.

 

Some of us work 5, and occasionally 6, days per week and have other responsibilities that may further take time that reduce time spent afield.

 

Not everyone works close to home. 

Not everyone is allowed to possess a firearm on company property (including in your locked car in company parking lot) for an early morning on the way to work or way home from work hunt.

Not everyone bow hunts or has a muzzle-loader to hunt all deer seasons, or has the time and money to hunt both the northern and southern zones. 

Not everyone can afford trail cams to monitor the wildlife for you.

Not everyone can afford hunting club memberships and exclusive hunting rights.

Not everyone has access to private lands.

 

I am not saying everyone is entitled to getting a deer on public land, but everyone deserves a fair chance.

 

If you do not eat venison, why hunt to tag out early breaking up herds and normal patterns for everyone else.  Take one early and wait to late in season to fill the rest for all you are going to do is donate it.  Enjoy hunting but don't need the meat, make it a challenging hunt for a very large deer to donate. Taking more than you need from public lands seems like greed to me, but that is how I was raised.

 

Not saying don't help those who need it, some people are on that border of struggling paycheck to paycheck to make ends meet and need a deer to cut their grocery costs and get through the winter, but earn too much for any assistance.  My family went through times like that when I was kid, dad's deer got us through the winter.

 

Taking 5 deer on public land could be reducing the chances for a hunter who is struggling and is working long hours.  But again that is how I was raised.

 

 

[the blur]

How about all the guys that shoot at 1st light, or just after official sunset. Not legal, and not ethical, but I hear the shots every opening weekend.

[jjb4900]

How about all the guys that shoot at 1st light, or just after official sunset. Not legal, and not ethical, but I hear the shots every opening weekend.

ahhh, but what if the one after sunset is to finish off a crippled deer......now what?

[letinmfly]

ahhh, but what if the one after sunset is to finish off a crippled deer......now what?

 

You make the ethical shot to dispatch the deer, even though it's illegal.  Ethical would win over legal with me in that case.

Edited December 2, 2014 by letinmfly

[jjb4900]

You make the ethical shot to dispatch the deer, even though it's illegal.  Ethical would win over legal with me in that case.

the gentleman I quoted said not legal or ethical....how's one to know?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

But using that line of thought, any animal that was spooked to you, and you killed it, was not hunted by you.

 

Deer drives are not hunting? How about sitting in a stand waiting to ambush a deer thats moving through a heavily used funnel? How is that different than killing a deer thats on its way to a bait pile? What about hunting orchards, or food plots, etc etc etc? Now lets get away from deer, how about bird hunting? How do you quantify that? They are found and flushed by the dog, is that hunting?

 

Ive been to deer farms, watched my kids feed monster bucks apple slices, pet them, etc. I know of a local deer farm that raises the deer in a barn with a small pen right behind his house and a few other houses, then trucks them over to his 300 acre fenced in lot when someone is on their way to purchase their animal and shoot it. Thats the kind of stuff I dont call hunting. If you are talking about 1000+ acres fenced, with deer living in there, not raised in a barn or that are accustomed to contact with humans in a non predator/prey situation, then its a different story to me.

 

As far as the OP goes, you can compare Ethics to Laws, but you cannot construe them to be the same, or even similar. One is a set of rules laid down by the government, the other is a set of personal values held by an individual.

Any animal that was spooked to me by an animal and killed is not hunting. A hunter pushes a deer to a hunter is hunting. A deer going to a food plot is a far cry from a bear going to a bucket of doughnuts.

A dog flushing a bird that can fly..Is that like a cat treed by a dog and shot by a hunter?

Now when you talk birds..Do you mean the ones that are raised and hand fed by humans and then planted out in the wild for a hunters to kill? Yeah i know..Its ok to kill an animal raised,grown and fed by humans as long as its not Bambi....What a crock!

[Doewhacker]

You are starved for attention ain't ya? That explains the mullet.

"Look at me I have a mullet...CWD... Deer farms....letchworth park...I'm so awesome"

[Four Season Whitetail's]

An animal raised on a farm is always considered a farm animal no matter how big a pen you let it loose in. I have been to preserves with my dogs to shoot Pheasant and you can literally walk up to these farm animals(deer, elk ect) and shoot them. It is not hunting nor will it ever be no matter how often or loud you cry.

This post right here explains how much of a hypocrite you really are. You dont care that you killed a freakin bird that was raised,hand fed by man and planted for you to use another animal to show that bird so you can kill it.  I love it. You are a bigger freakin joke than i gave you credit for. OMFG!!!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You are starved for attention ain't ya? That explains the mullet.

"Look at me I have a mullet...CWD... Deer farms....letchworth park...I'm so awesome"

HaHa. I love you jokes that think you have all the answers and then when facts get shoved in your face you try and call sissy names, 

Everything that you wish you could be and never will...My heart bleeds for ya!!! Right!!!

[Doewhacker]

This post right here explains how much of a hypocrite you really are. You dont care that you killed a freakin bird that was raised,hand fed by man and planted for you to use another animal to show that bird so you can kill it. I love it. You are a bigger freakin joke than i gave you credit for. OMFG!!!!

I called it shooting for a reason. And birds can fly away, farm animal deer cannot, OMFM

The last M is for Mullet.

[Doewhacker]

HaHa. I love you jokes that think you have all the answers and then when facts get shoved in your face you try and call sissy names,

Everything that you wish you could be and never will...My heart bleeds for ya!!! Right!!!

Call names? No I am making fun of your 80's hair sir. And that's a FACT!

[BizCT]

Timeout: does FSW really have a mullet? Can someone please post a pic? I'm picturing Joe Dirt

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[Doewhacker]

Timeout: does FSW really have a mullet? Can someone please post a pic? I'm picturing Joe Dirt

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1417568103.235000.jpg

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See for yourself , I introduce triple M. Magic Mullet Mike

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/25110-opening-weekend-main-frame-10-with-stickers/#entry335850

[BizCT]

Haha oh man, how did I miss that? Yee-haw! Ole man River, he's gotta be like 73 years old. What's on the tip of that rifle?

Far enough, he couldn't get a pass thru? I've gotten pass thru over 400yards on much bigger bodied mule deer

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Edited December 3, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Doewhacker]

Haha oh man, how did I miss that? Yee-haw! Ole man River, he's gotta be like 73 years old. What's on the tip of that rifle?

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It's a barrel dampener, similar to what you might see on a bow or cross bow.