Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[Five Seasons]

Here is a DEC slide show presentation which will give some additional insights as to what the DEC thinking is. 

buckppt2013.pdf

 

thank you for that. all the "commenters" in this thread should read this.

[Five Seasons]

I would be ok with antler restictions for only the late bow/muzzy season.   If the smaller guys make it through early bow and reg. season  they should be let to  grow until next season . Just a thought

 

that's certainly a start I think most could get behind. If you haven't killed a deer in 2 months, you had your shot haha. Problem may be that I bet the percentage of late season kills and even hunter numbers are pretty low. I'm not sure it makes a noticeable impact. The real impact would be during the rut or opening weekend of gun.

 

[upstatehunter]

Why stop there? Get your light out and jack one up tonight. After all, it's your land and no one is gonna tell you what to do. 

 

 

Where are you getting i'm jacking deer.  Is it illegal for me to shoot a fork horn? no......did I say I take 20 deer a year? no........did I say I shoot them out of season? no......are you and DEC going to tell me next that I cant snowmobile on my property if I don't have insurance

[WNYBuckHunter]

Costly at the license counter. Put it this way, even town clerks are refusing to sell licenses now...to the point they've been docked pay or demoted.

 

I know everyone wants their two cents in, but that's not realistic. We can't even handle voting for a President efficiently.

 

Its all computerized already, and could be entered right along with the license info. Im not talking a lengthy survey, just a short one with a different subject each year. The cost would most likely be similar to what a big lengthy survey once every few years costs them to do.

[upstatehunter]

They're not your deer. It is your land. You still can't just do whatever you please. The laws of the state all still apply to you. The DEC CAN and WILL tell you what you can do on your land whether you like it or not. If you get caught you will pay whether you like it or not.

Last I knew I couldn't murder someone on my land and claim it was my land and I can do what I want on it.

 

 

I don't want you painting your house on your own land because I think the paint fumes are bad for my kids, so you cant do that.  Oh when you wash your car in your drive way, I think the chemicals you are using are getting in my water supply, so you cant wash your car on your own property anymore

 

 

[upstatehunter]

I own a sandblasting business, DEC thought they could shut me down 3 different times......well still in business.....my property, my decisions

[phade]

Its all computerized already, and could be entered right along with the license info. Im not talking a lengthy survey, just a short one with a different subject each year. The cost would most likely be similar to what a big lengthy survey once every few years costs them to do.

 

You can't glean the level of detail with a short survey, plus the opportunity cost in retail would be enough that there'd be major pushback from retailers. DEC contracts it out, pays Cornell, and done. No trying to re-negotiate license vendor agreements.

 

The survey I took, which looking at it the deck, was around 2010. It was several pages long with alot of questions.

[growalot]

WNYBH...thanks for correcting my correction on Kip...doubted it so googled him and the correction I post was what I got..obviously wrong...lol   lesson I never learned...going back to check your answers...never change them ...your usually right the first time....would have got a 98 on my biology regents had I listened then as well...95 wasn't bad though

[Five Seasons]

I believe the most attractive selection of the 5 is the last one that favors No changes at all.

 

which is human nature. We fear change. We don't know what will happen. Will hunting as we know it be ruined? idk... Will it improve? that'd be great but we have no guarantee.

 

Businesses struggle with change all the time. Change is scary. Kodak failed at it and Apple won at it.

[Five Seasons]

I will not become a big buck hunter because my neighbor wants his nice beautiful rack on his wall that he touches himself over.  I hunt for meat. 

 

Nobody is going to take you seriously when you are obviously very set in your ways and anti-trophy. you need to show some understanding for "your neighbor" to help contribute to the conversation.

[growalot]

JFB...really new year and pissing matches aren't on my plate...but your last post to me needs answering....I do not like to play word games, so when I see them in action...BTW you have mastered...in some instances... a wonderful subtly in yours....I prefer when seeing this to just pull out the sledge hammer, as it were....

Actually I thought I was being nice in posing questions to your your sarcastic reply to my(sarcastic) opinion.

Now I still ask you to post those models and graphs you mention from the DEC.  I Think your Kip reference has been taken care.

[phade]

which is human nature. We fear change. We don't know what will happen. Will hunting as we know it be ruined? idk... Will it improve? that'd be great but we have no guarantee.

 

Businesses struggle with change all the time. Change is scary. Kodak failed at it and Apple won at it.

 

Probably the most impactful insight you've had to date on this forum. All of it is 100% factual in my view.

 

Kodak, nothing like holding the keys to the kingdom, and then letting it all disappear because of not wanting to cut into film profits. I mean, it's not like they didn't have the patent on the digital camera or anything. Kodak refused to change when it had in hand its future secured and it died (figuratively speaking).

 

I think 5 is the worst option. Do nothing and continue to wilt away.

[Five Seasons]

I don't want you painting your house on your own land because I think the paint fumes are bad for my kids, so you cant do that.  Oh when you wash your car in your drive way, I think the chemicals you are using are getting in my water supply, so you cant wash your car on your own property anymore

 

if that paint has lead in it or your carwash has chemicals prohibited from entering the waterway than no, no you can't do that. Or we could just let our cancer rates continue to rise and our streams and lakes become polluted because you have a stick up your ass. Good lord... do you dump your used motor oil in the back too?

 

I think I drove by your place the otherday

 

 

I own a sandblasting business, DEC thought they could shut me down 3 different times......well still in business.....my property, my decisions

 

your lack of care for the environment saddens me. How can you be a hunter and outdoorsman and pollute at the same time?

Edited January 7, 2015 by Belo

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So, what's the deal with this apparent DEC shift in opinion on the attempted protections of 1.5 year old deer. I do remember a Hurst quote that essentially said that there is no biological justification for AR, and in fact it is more of a social (political ....lol) issue than a game management issue. So this reversal sounds like a decision to let hunters take over the management and the hell with good sound management principles recommended by trained biological  DEC employees.

 

Well it might be more accurate to say that maybe there is an ulterior motive to this strange opinion shift. I have not seen a whole lot of rules changes in the last decades that were not specifically aimed at herd reduction ... statewide. I'm thinking that the thought here is that the harder you make a buck harvest, the more does that will be taken to compensate for the likely "deerless" season results that new rule of buck harvest harassment will cause. Perhaps this is really all just a back-door effort to force doe harvests.

If you read the power point that was linked above, it basically says the say thing. The herd is healthy and no biological need and it is a social topic. And from the  previous survey and comments on this forum, a very polarizing one.

[Five Seasons]

Probably the most impactful insight you've had to date on this forum. All of it is 100% factual in my view.

Kodak, nothing like holding the keys to the kingdom, and then letting it all disappear because of not wanting to cut into film profits. I mean, it's not like they didn't have the patent on the digital camera or anything. Kodak refused to change when it had in hand its future secured and it died (figuratively speaking).

I think 5 is the worst option. Do nothing and continue to wilt away.

kodak also had the patent to the LCD. Sold it to samsung. Let that one sink in...

I'm a pretty smart insightful dude. I'm just wrapped in the shell of an opinionated

Edited January 7, 2015 by WNYBuckHunter
Edited for language

[moog5050]

I am all in favor of trying to "grow" the buck before killing them, but not at the expense of another hunter's ability to choose what he shoots.  I remember the first 1.5yr 8 pt I saw my first year hunting.  He looked like a booner to me at the time.  Should I tell another hunter he can't shoot that buck if he wants simply because I prefer a chance to shoot him in 2-3 years.  NOPE. 

 

Its pretty clear from the slide show that DEC thinks our heard is healthy and only would implement ARs because some hunters want to hunt more mature bucks.  I can't support that, even though I too want to hunt more mature bucks having a passed quite a few younger ones this year.

 

I would support a one buck limit though as that still leaves the choice to the hunter with potential to allow more bucks to age.

[JFB]

Has everything to do with it......its my land.....I'm not out to kill every deer but if all I see is a spike horn or fork horn for the year, he's hitting the dirt......nobody will tell me you can't shoot that deer on your own property

 

So clear the record.. because when I read above I viewed it as you saying that even if the regulation of 3 points a side comes in, that you would still shoot a spike if thats all you see for the year. We've been speaking all along about proposed regulations so most of us are commenting based on the proposed future. Thats how discussion works normally.

 

And if "nobody will tell you"... bla bla bla, I was just asking what stops you from doing something else against the law? After all, if you have a bad year unable to get certain deer, no one is gonna tell you what you can do on your own land right? 

 

(Again for the record, I do not think statewide AR is good. I would be very happy with one buck and a shorter gun season). 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am all in favor of trying to "grow" the buck before killing them, but not at the expense of another hunter's ability to choose what he shoots.  I remember the first 1.5yr 8 pt I saw my first year hunting.  He looked like a booner to me at the time.  Should I tell another hunter he can't shoot that buck if he wants simply because I prefer a chance to shoot him in 2-3 years.  NOPE. 

 

Its pretty clear from the slide show that DEC thinks our heard is healthy and only would implement ARs because some hunters want to hunt more mature bucks.  I can't support that, even though I too want to hunt more mature bucks having a passed quite a few younger ones this year.

 

I would support a one buck limit though as that still leaves the choice to the hunter with potential to allow more bucks to age.

Wish I could use all of my "likes" on this one.

[jjb4900]

which is human nature. We fear change. We don't know what will happen. Will hunting as we know it be ruined? idk... Will it improve? that'd be great but we have no guarantee.

Businesses struggle with change all the time. Change is scary. Kodak failed at it and Apple won at it.

The area we hunt upstate went to AR's three years ago (4W & 4R), I was beyond ticked at the time........3 years later and no improvement in the quality of the bucks we see, just at this point I don't care.....never was a trophy hunter, but was always thrilled to take any legal buck. I didn't even have the desire to fill my doe tags Upstate because the deer just aren't there, so I couldn't see killing one just to fill the tags......luckily (depending how you look at it) I live on L.I. and was able to fill 3 tags, just not the same to me as getting away and hunting Upstate.

[upstatehunter]

if that paint has lead in it or your carwash has chemicals prohibited from entering the waterway than no, no you can't do that. Or we could just let our cancer rates continue to rise and our streams and lakes become polluted because you have a stick up your ass. Good lord... do you dump your used motor oil in the back too?

 

I think I drove by your place the otherday

 

 

 

your lack of care for the environment saddens me. How can you be a hunter and outdoorsman and pollute at the same time?

 

lol that isn't my place.  My property value last year(for insurance) was valued just shy of $2,000,000.  I have ponds,  run way for my 2 airplanes, a whole separate structure that Is a private bar, plus my home and business that are on the property......then add in value of the business and machinery......im ruining the environment?  So everyone who does business with me are bad?  I have 2 DEC offcers who do business with me? Are they bad?  Is the state, county, city and town highway garages I do business for bad?

 

And im talking about you......I don't like the soap you use to wash your car or the paint you use on your house so you cant use them anymore

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 I would be very happy with one buck and a shorter gun season). 

I can't agree with this especially in our area. The season that is set up know doesn't allow for adequate doe take. I could get behind stopping antlered harvest early but in high density areas leaving the doe season open.

 

The other thing they NEVER include in these pipe dreams is totally eliminating the antlerless only special tags and doing all the antlerless harvest by DMP's. I would think this would give them the most flexibility of controlling the specific areas.

[phade]

I can't agree with this especially in our area. The season that is set up know doesn't allow for adequate doe take. I could get behind stopping antlered harvest early but in high density areas leaving the doe season open.

 

The other thing they NEVER include in these pipe dreams is totally eliminating the antlerless only special tags and doing all the antlerless harvest by DMP's. I would think this would give them the most flexibility of controlling the specific areas.

 

I have to assume if they go OBR, that the DMP/Antlerless would merge into one. I think most all OBRs do that now. Ohio manages by zone, and seems pretty efficient.

[JFB]

if that paint has lead in it or your carwash has chemicals prohibited from entering the waterway than no, no you can't do that. Or we could just let our cancer rates continue to rise and our streams and lakes become polluted because you have a stick up your ass. Good lord... do you dump your used motor oil in the back too?

 

I think I drove by your place the otherday

 

 

 

your lack of care for the environment saddens me. How can you be a hunter and outdoorsman and pollute at the same time?

 

Not just because I agree on this with Belo, but that right there is funny. BTW, my house assessment is $2,000,001 and I have three run ways 

[upstatehunter]

JFB, nobody gives a .....the point was I don't live in a scum hole.......am I going to get told next that I cant run a certain business

Edited January 7, 2015 by WNYBuckHunter
Edited for language

[JFB]

JFB, nobody gives a ....the point was I don't live in a scum hole.......am I going to get told next that I cant run a certain business

Clearly 'some' of us do care.